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41 minutes ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

The way that the Adobe tool does it makes everything it generates not copyrightable according to said ruling. Unless you heavily modify those areas afterward you will be unable to enforce copyright, which most of these examples shown by YouTubers aren't doing. Slapping a few filters on are really not going to be enough.

There have been recent changes to the copyright position allowing for mix of AI and human. Furthermore, it will be unenforceable because ultimately nobody will ever know as it continues along the path of inevitably becoming indistinguishable.

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/05/04/us-copyright-office-artificial-intelligence-art-regulation

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Just now, CM0 said:

Furthermore, it will be unenforceable because ultimately nobody will ever know as it continues along the path of inevitably becoming indistinguishable.

Unless AI's can be trained to tell the difference? 🤔

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Just now, R C-R said:

Unless AI's can be trained to tell the difference? 🤔

This is already been tried, but it is not accurate. Not because it can not do so, but because the evolution continues changing. Furthermore as it continues to get better and better you end up with false positives.

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9 minutes ago, CM0 said:

There have been recent changes to the copyright position allowing for mix of AI and human. Furthermore, it will be unenforceable because ultimately nobody will ever know as it continues along the path of inevitably becoming indistinguishable.

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2023/05/04/us-copyright-office-artificial-intelligence-art-regulation

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The two most significant quotes from the article that reinforce what I mentioned before. AI art is not copyrightable. However, with enough changes a human may claim authorship, but that is not yet clear. In the case of the book mentioned in that article, it means that every single image on it and inside it can be used by anyone without infringing on any copyright. The latter quote is still up in the air in regards to how transformative the work is to be claimed authorship over. As the article mentioned, it's going to be judged on a "case-by-case basis".

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47 minutes ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

Even if Adobe "allow" commercial use in the official release, they do not have the authority to determine its viability as a commercial product

Okay, I found the Adobe document. It is only for the beta that it's restricted to non-commercial use.

The document I linked earlier states they used the stock images that they own in order to train the AI. Surely no one thinks that they've spent all this money and time on developing this just for it to be used only by people playing around for personal use.

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4 minutes ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

The two most significant quotes from the article that reinforce what I mentioned before. AI art is not copyrightable. However, with enough changes a human may claim authorship, but that is not yet clear. In the case of the book mentioned in that article, it means that every single image on it and inside it can be used by anyone without infringing on any copyright. The latter quote is still up in the air in regards to how transformative the work is to be claimed authorship over. As the article mentioned, it's going to be judged on a "case-by-case basis".

Yes, that is what I meant by a mix of AI and human. Nonetheless, it will still be unenforceable as nothing can be enforced that is not knowable. As AI gets better, it will make all IP protections irrelevant, not for just art, but for everything. As Google recently stated, there are no moats with AI.

Furthermore, you don't need copyright for commercial use. The major use cases for this is going to be in social media marketing and social media engagement vs directly selling art. In those instances it doesn't matter.

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1 minute ago, BofG said:

Surely no one thinks that they've spent all this money and time on developing this just for it to be used only by people playing around for personal use.

I've also heard that Adobe plans on using their AI to compensate the original works as their AI can determine which pieces contributed to the generation.

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5 minutes ago, BofG said:

Okay, I found the Adobe document. It is only for the beta that it's restricted to non-commercial use.

The document I linked earlier states they used the stock images that they own in order to train the AI. Surely no one thinks that they've spent all this money and time on developing this just for it to be used only by people playing around for personal use.

AI is currently the wild west. Adobe are a bit more careful than other companies since they are using their own resources to build AI tools, but we won't know for sure how the wind will blow. Just look at the state of NFTs and how fast things changed in a year or two. Discussions around AI will evolve rapidly in the coming years.

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20 minutes ago, CM0 said:

Yes, that is what I meant by a mix of AI and human. Nonetheless, it will still be unenforceable as nothing can be enforced that is not knowable. As AI gets better, it will make all IP protections irrelevant, not for just art, but for everything. As Google recently stated, there are no moats with AI.

Furthermore, you don't need copyright for commercial use. The major use cases for this is going to be in social media marketing and social media engagement vs directly selling art. In those instances it doesn't matter.

Companies take copyright very seriously. Just because some may get away with it now doesn't mean that they won't be discovered in the future. I already know of several big named companies in the gaming industry that refuse to work with AI because they are afraid of the legal ramifications. AI is for sure here to stay, but for now companies will stay away from it to protect themselves and their brands.

You are completely missing the point if you think copyright is not an issue for commercial companies. They want to own what they make to protect their business. If anyone can use your stuff then you will not be able to protect your source of income by being out-competed by look-alikes. That's the point of copyright. Imagine a scenario where you use AI to design a character for your next big blockbuster game. Now you have a design that anyone can put into their own stuff, including merchandise, royalties from other companies using the character in other media, etc. Sure, you can try and hide that you made it with AI, but once the truth is out there, it's out there. Now you lost ownership of a piece of your business.

That's why you can't use this argument and say that it doesn't matter. It does.

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11 minutes ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

I already know of several big named companies in the gaming industry that refuse to work with AI because they are afraid of the legal ramifications

True, I don't disagree here. However, that will not stop its use as anyone can run models on their own hardware.

12 minutes ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

You are completely missing the point if you think copyright is not an issue for commercial companies. They want to own what they make to protect their business.

There isn't much to protect if you are making ads. Nobody want's to copy your ad and promote your product for you. There is also no incentive to copy your ad either since they can just generate one that is a better match for their own product. You still have trademark which is protected despite AI. So they can't copy your branding.

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On 5/25/2023 at 6:32 PM, Campfool said:

I started with DrawPlus in the 90s and am still waiting on features.

Is it Affinity problem or yours? If I need a feature and the tool does not offer it, then I change my tool, buy a new tool or look for other alternatives. No offense but, you have wait to much time for results, 6 months is all you can wait to realize the tool is not for you.

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3 hours ago, CM0 said:

There isn't much to protect if you are making ads. Nobody want's to copy your ad and promote your product for you. There is also no incentive to copy your ad either since they can just generate one that is a better match for their own product. You still have trademark which is protected despite AI. So they can't copy your branding.

This is getting far off topic but there a lot of less than ethical companies in the world marketing knockoff lookalike of well established products, so there is at least some incentive for copying ads for the better known ones. AI could probably be used for that as well....

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7 hours ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

The biggest hurdle that AI will have is the legality around using it for commercial work.

There has been discussion surrounding the compensation of artists, and it appears that they may soon receive the same payment as music artists do. If any of your artwork (or part of it) is utilized to create a generative image, you will receive compensation at a predetermined rate. Many businesses tend to stick to the same methods until they discover a more effective approach.

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5 hours ago, BofG said:

Surely no one thinks that they've spent all this money and time on developing this just for it to be used only by people playing around for personal use.

Well, it depends on how you see this tool. Some people use AI for inspiration and not to have a final commercial artwork. I'm not saying that it was Adobe's want you to do, just sharing another point of view about the use of AI in some artists.

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14 hours ago, CM0 said:

It is actually rather easy. You only need to modify the image and you have human created content.

I dare to say most "prompt artists" lacks such ability :D

13 hours ago, CM0 said:

I've also heard that Adobe plans on using their AI to compensate the original works as their AI can determine which pieces contributed to the generation.

And how that suppose to work? Will they track every generated picture? How they will recognize what was done for commercial work and what just for fun? Also - how this would make sense financially? Will you watch advertisement before using generation option? Or they plan on just giving away money? In that case if I was the creator of original work used by Adobe I would make a prompt that is likely to bring my picture in and ask few friends to push that "generate" button couple times daily. Ka-ching! Picture generator turned into money generator :D 

On serious note - in makes no sense I dont believe it.

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AI is such a massive part software development now and this is the big deciding year.

It is far from being limited to design software. As well as the amazing new features in Photoshop, we are seeing it creep into video editing, 3D and office software.

By the end of this year we will all be using and relying on AI so much that we will wonder what we did before we had it.

A good example is; Tomorrow I have a brief for a list of images I need to generate for a documentary we are working on. The list of images would normally take me a week to generate in previous projects. The ones I will make tomorrow will take a few minutes thanks to AI.

AI will affect our lives in the same way as the internet did, only much quicker.

If I was Serif. I would be looking for people to work with that could integrate AI into the suite. Rather than being left behind.

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3 hours ago, nezumi said:

On serious note - in makes no sense I dont believe it.

Most likely it will be implemented as a tax system. Some tiny portion of what you pay for generating images will go back to the authors of original works. I doubt you could game the system for any meaningful profit. Revenues will be tiny in proportion just as they already are for any media published on stock websites. Adobe isn't going to try to make anyone wealthy. They just want a marketing message so they don't look like the bad guys taking advantage of artists.

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3 hours ago, spidermurph said:

By the end of this year we will all be using and relying on AI so much that we will wonder what we did before we had it.

I most certainly won't be. I have no use for it.

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11 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I most certainly won't be. I have no use for it.

The point is that it will become just as ubiquitous as the internet. It is already being embedded in OS, search, social media, all development tools etc. You might not use it explicitly, but you will use it indirectly without even knowing as it becomes the new base layer of all technology.

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Well let me say to this theme, I use both together, text to art and afterwards editing and combine in Affinity photo. 
because the images you get the first a very low based, things are not really you want, so its to you as artist to get the picture you have in mind by yourself.

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2 hours ago, CM0 said:

The point is that it will become just as ubiquitous as the internet. It is already being embedded in OS, search, social media, all development tools etc. You might not use it explicitly, but you will use it indirectly without even knowing as it becomes the new base layer of all technology.

I am quite sure I will know if I am making decisions myself or letting AI do that for me. AI has its place, just not for the things I do.

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14 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I am quite sure I will know if I am making decisions myself

Do you? AI is used on this forum as well. It's the popular definition that's been labeled differently. You see, when you use the inpainting tool a basic AI is being used. AI has been in its full potential since 2001... but that's another topic.

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13 minutes ago, albertkinng said:

You see, when you use the inpainting tool a basic AI is being used.

Nope. In AP it uses well known algorithms based on textural & structural analysis of the pixel content that require no prior training or machine learning. There are of course 'deep learning' versions using neural network based analysis but they are not present in AP.

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24 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I am quite sure I will know if I am making decisions myself or letting AI do that for me.

I don't think anyone can make that statement with certainty anymore unless you conduct almost your entire business and social life offline. If you have a business and are advertising on just about any platform, AI is making decisions for you on ad placement. Just one example of behind the scenes use of AI.

AI eventually will not be mentioned anymore at some point as a key feature. As it is just common place tech used in every service.

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