What is the purpose of the image editor in Publisher?

[David Gamble]

Hi,

Apologies for what may sound like a very facetious question, but what is the benefit/purpose of the image editor in Publisher?

I am obviously missing something and I genuinely want to know what it is.

Dragging an image onto the pasteboard opens the image in what appears to be a stripped-down editor and I don't know why?

Thanks

[GarryP]

I’ve never seen this happen, but I don’t normally drop images onto the pasteboard.
I’ve just tried it and don’t see what you describe.
Can you give a replicable workflow, preferably with a video?

Note: Also, can you tell us which Publisher version and which OS?

[David Gamble]

The more I play with this, the more it looks like a Personas thing where you can switch to Photo Persona to edit.

[GarryP]

Does this happen for you with the latest commercial release of V2, or just the beta version (whichever that is) that you show in the video?

[thomaso]

This is simply the difference between placing a resource file versus opening it.

If dragged on the layout area (the pages) it gets placed, if dragged on the workspace or the interface (panels) it gets opened, as usual for opening as a separate document.

The limited photo editing tools have nothing to do with this app behavior but are permanent in APub and, as you assumed, a matter of the 3 personas in APub, whereas the Photo persona has not the full functions of the separate APhoto.app.

[David Gamble]

I have only been using Publisher from version 2 and it has done this since I have been using it.

I don't mind now I know why it happens (pasteboard vs document).

Only using the Beta as it fixed a big problem with using Books.

 

[David Gamble]

1 minute ago, thomaso said:

This is simply the difference between placing a resource file versus opening it.

If dragged on the layout area (the pages) it gets placed, if dragged on the workspace or the interface (panels) it gets opened, as usual as a separate document.

The limited photo editing tools have nothing to do with this app behavior but are permanent in APub and, as you assumed, a matter of the 3 personas in APub, whereas the Photo persona has not the full functions of the separate APhoto.app.

Thank you, Thomaso. This explains it.

Is there a quick way to open placed Publisher images in the Photos app?

[thomaso]

1 minute ago, David Gamble said:

Is there a quick way to open placed Publisher images in the Photos app?

Select the image layer in APub and choose menu "File" -> "Edit in Photo".
If APub's photo persona would be sufficient for the planned edits you can click the context toolbar button "Edit Image".

By the way: in APub and its photo persona you can not open an image by the menu command -> "Open…". So the way of dragging to open an image in APub can be quite welcome. Another way is from the macOS finder via right click on the file -> "Open with…" which allows you to choose APub, too.

[David Gamble]

24 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Select the image layer in APub and choose menu "File" -> "Edit in Photo".
If APub's photo persona would be sufficient for the planned edits you can click the context toolbar button "Edit Image".

By the way: in APub and its photo persona you can not open an image by the menu command -> "Open…". So the way of dragging to open an image in APub can be quite welcome. Another way is from the macOS finder via right click on the file -> "Open with…" which allows you to choose APub, too.

They are helpful, thanks.

Definitely need a shortcut, though. (Indesign's was OPTION+DOUBLE CLICK which opened the image in filetypes preferred editor).

[David Gamble]

28 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Select the image layer in APub and choose menu "File" -> "Edit in Photo".
If APub's photo persona would be sufficient for the planned edits you can click the context toolbar button "Edit Image".

By the way: in APub and its photo persona you can not open an image by the menu command -> "Open…". So the way of dragging to open an image in APub can be quite welcome. Another way is from the macOS finder via right click on the file -> "Open with…" which allows you to choose APub, too.

Trying "File > Edit in Photo" results in the spread AND image opening in Photo, not just the placed image as I expected.

[thomaso]

5 minutes ago, David Gamble said:

Definitely need a shortcut,

You can assign a shortcut in the app preferences.

1 minute ago, David Gamble said:

Trying "File > Edit in Photo" results in the spread AND image opening in Photo, not just the placed image as I expected.

Like APub has pages (spreads), APhoto has the canvas. Both have dimensions independent from their contents. You can't open an image in APhoto without getting a canvas, as you can create a canvas size in APhoto which is larger than the image.

You can open a placed image limited to the resource dimensions with two steps: 1. Click "Edit Image" > 2. Choose "Open in Photo".

[David Gamble]

Thanks for the help on this.

Got some explanations and that has helped in me understanding the reason for it.

I think we may be a little at cross-purposes, though. Ultimately, I just want a quick way to open the original placed image in Photo or Photoshop.

(I know I can do this with the resource manager, but it is more processes and only reveals its location).

Appreciate the help, though.

Edited April 2, 2023 by David Gamble
Clarity

[walt.farrell]

6 minutes ago, David Gamble said:

Ultimately, I just want a quick way to open the original placed image.

Do you need the full functionality of Photo, or is it sufficient to have the Photo Persona that Publisher provides? If that's good enough (as it often/usually is), and you're using Linked files (not Embedded) just use Edit Image from the Context Toolbar or double-click on it, and you should get a new editing tab in Publisher. Then switch to the Photo Persona if you can't do your edit from the Publisher Persona.

If you need some of the other Photo application functions not provided by Publisher's Photo Persona, then you can navigate to the image using the Resource Manager and open from there, or once you've used Edit Image you can use File > Edit in Photo.

[thomaso]

33 minutes ago, David Gamble said:

I think we may be a little at cross-purposes, though. Ultimately, I just want a quick way to open the original placed image in Photo or Photoshop.

Regarding your initial topic "What is the purpose of the image editor in Publisher?" we aren't at cross-purposes.

Whereas the recent request for a more flexible "Open With…" option (e.g. "… Photoshop" or any available app on your system) sounds like a different topic. Indeed, it does not exist yet in Affinity and may require a Feature Request in one of the according forum sections.

[David Gamble]

22 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Regarding your initial topic "What is the purpose of the image editor in Publisher?" we aren't at cross-purposes.

Yep, that is correct. Thanks for the help.

[David Gamble]

51 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Do you need the full functionality of Photo, or is it sufficient to have the Photo Persona that Publisher provides? If that's good enough (as it often/usually is), and you're using Linked files (not Embedded) just use Edit Image from the Context Toolbar or double-click on it, and you should get a new editing tab in Publisher. Then switch to the Photo Persona if you can't do your edit from the Publisher Persona.

If you need some of the other Photo application functions not provided by Publisher's Photo Persona, then you can navigate to the image using the Resource Manager and open from there, or once you've used Edit Image you can use File > Edit in Photo.

The Persona version would probably suffice 50% of the time. So this is helpful. Thanks.

" or once you've used Edit Image you can use File > Edit in Photo."

This bit appears to open a copy of the original image, though.

 

[walt.farrell]

18 minutes ago, David Gamble said:

This bit appears to open a copy of the original image, though.

Interesting.

You're right. The editing tab in Publisher has the original Linked image, but Edit in Photo gets a copy. That seems to be true whenever Edit in ... is used, which is something I never noticed.

So, if you want to edit the original, you'll need to find it (Resource Manager can help) and open it from File Explorer or Finder.

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

1 hour ago, David Gamble said:

This bit appears to open a copy of the original image, though.

Interesting.

You're right. The editing tab in Publisher has the original Linked image, but Edit in Photo gets a copy.

Strange. To me (mac, V1) it's possible to edit the original of a placed JPG with the according workflow details:

When I choose in APub "Edit in Photo"
–> then click in Photo.app the button "Edit Image"
–> then my edits done to a JPG offers the dialog to "Save" the edits if I close this extra document window.
–> Now if I go back from APhoto via "Edit in Publisher" to APub the page in APub shows the edited image and in the macOS finder the JPG was overwritten with my edits.

Well, it may feel easier / shorter to go from APub to the finder,
–> open the JPG + edit + save
–> and continue in APub with the modified linked image.

[Dan C]

19 hours ago, David Gamble said:

" or once you've used Edit Image you can use File > Edit in Photo."

This bit appears to open a copy of the original image, though.

Thanks for raising this, I've been able to replicate this here and I would expect the app to open the linked file, rather than a copy of and therefore I'm getting this logged with our developers now.

Equally, selecting File > Save on this copy document appears to save the file, but the original is not overwritten and therefore the file does not appear to actually be saved.

17 hours ago, thomaso said:

Strange. To me (mac, V1) it's possible to edit the original of a placed JPG with the according workflow details:

When I choose in APub "Edit in Photo"
–> then click in Photo.app the button "Edit Image"
–> then my edits done to a JPG offers the dialog to "Save" the edits if I close this extra document window.
–> Now if I go back from APhoto via "Edit in Publisher" to APub the page in APub shows the edited image and in the macOS finder the JPG was overwritten with my edits.

The same workflow in V2 also functions in this manner, the issue only occurs if Edit Image is selected first, and then Edit in... is selected for this 'Edit Image' document. At which point a copy of the image is opened in the relevant Affinity app. This behaviour is the same for me in V1 & V2 but I believe is incorrect in both.

I hope this helps

[thomaso]

23 minutes ago, Dan C said:

This behaviour is the same for me in V1 & V2 but I believe is incorrect in both.

Thanks for clarifying this. Indeed, APhoto opens an "Untitled" document instead of the image file name when using "Edit Image" first.

For what it's worth, when toggling a few times between both apps via "Edit in …" + "Edit Image" without saving any file it appears to confuse Affinity if a step doesn't use "Edit in…" but I manually switch to the other app while the document is still open in one of the apps.

Actually I would expect a message like "The file is already opened in …" but I get rather unclear messages and finally can end in a corrupted document with a different modification date of the file on disk although I did not "Save" or "Save As". I also noticed when 2 documents are opened in Apub and I choose "Edit in Photo" for one then it can happen that the document does not get closed (I assume being auto-closed is the behavior "by design?) but gets moved as background tab and the other document becomes the active document. – I think an overwritten document never must happen if I did not save it myself.

I noticed such a modification + corruption issue (without having saved) before in the recent V1 version within APub only (not using "Edit in…"). – All files are stored on the same volume container of the local SSD.

[Dan C]

Can you please provide a screen recording showing your exact workflow that causes this to occur, such that I can further test this here in both V1 & V2?