Adjusted mask behaviour

[Michail]

On 3/16/2023 at 12:57 PM, Ash said:

With that in mind, we have removed the drop down from the mask icon in the Layers panel now and reverted the mask button to be:

• Click: add Mask
• Alt+Click: Add empty mask

It is a good decision because creating standard masks is more efficient that way. I also think that many users were rather confused by the drop-down list.

As a compromise, could one perhaps additionally integrate the special masks into the context menu of the layers?

[footeg]

19 hours ago, RichardMH said:

Sorry. In Photo  I use compound, hue and luminosity masks quite frequently and don't like the changes. 

Setting up the masks to select by hue and luminosity is painful enough as it is. Why add complications. (If macros would let me mov ethe masks a lot would be forgiven)

And why no colour picker for the hue mask?

If you look at PhotoLab you'll see  the sort of functionality that is possible with hue and luminosity masks.

 

I have a colour picker in the hue mask on Windows 11 version. I have set shift+ L, H. B for luminosity, hue & bandpass masks respectively.

[RichardMH]

4 hours ago, footeg said:

I have a colour picker in the hue mask on Windows 11 version. I have set shift+ L, H. B for luminosity, hue & bandpass masks respectively.

Thanks. Just saw it was  there.

[Ian-]

On 3/16/2023 at 7:09 PM, debraspicher said:

F-keys are unassigned except F1 iirc if you are a heavy mask user. I understand what you mean though. I have looked a few times at getting a macro keyboard or a radial menu software setup on my machine but it is another thing to setup. The new mask options are very welcome and so I found myself using them regularly. This did mean accessing them plenty through the drop down menus.

 

Perhaps if Serif would prefer, they could create a floating masks toolpanel. Yes, another panel. But it could just be for mask activities. Especially since this is catering to Affinity's specific workflows involving non-destructive philosophy. Maybe a panel that allows adding masks quickly would be in order? Also the ability to load from saved selections this way on the fly somehow... I leave it to them in terms of how it would be laid out, but essentially make masking more enjoyable, more centralized around the core functionality of Photo, basically.

StreamDeck is the way to go. You label the keys with text or icon and when the program focus changes ie you switch application the keys change to whatever you have assigned to that program.

[digit42]

On 3/17/2023 at 6:14 AM, jc4d said:

I mean, for some people like me who suffers of carpal tunnel, long clicks put more strees in the wrist. But following your idea, what if right click on the mask icon is what invokes the drop-down menu?

I actually like the way it works in the current release (non-beta).

So: +1 for the possibility to invoke the mask dropdown menu via long click or right click on the mask button.

Considering the possible additional stress with long clicks for some of us, I think that right click might be the better way.

[PaulEC]

I’m not sure if all mice support long clicks, but using the right mouse button to get the drop-down menu seems like a good idea to me!

[dominik]

5 hours ago, PaulEC said:

but using the right mouse button to get the drop-down menu seems like a good idea to me!

From following this discussion and my own preferences I do support this suggestion.

d.

[fde101]

13 hours ago, PaulEC said:

I’m not sure if all mice support long clicks, but using the right mouse button to get the drop-down menu seems like a good idea to me!

Adding an arrow in the corner and supporting long-click and double-click would match it to the toolbar icons with menus behind them, but in my opinion, a right-click should work on those too...

[Craig Ozancin]

3 hours ago, fde101 said:

Adding an arrow in the corner and supporting long-click and double-click would match it to the toolbar icons with menus behind them, but in my opinion, a right-click should work on those too...

I second this idea. For those of us who use the live masks, having to always go to the menus becomes a pain point. This idea would really support the widest range of use cases.

In addition, this seems a stronger UI friendly approach. As mentioned, long mouse clicks are already supported for a very long time.

[debraspicher]

With more usage:

I can say I do miss easier the access to the hue, luminosity, band-pass masks as I'm using these on the regular since they were introduced. However, the new simplified mask button is still a far better solution for general mask-making. Especially for beginners/light mask users who don't need the bloat of the additional masks. It clutters those workflows unnecessarily and I did not like the drop down on the mask button in particular as that just created additional work for quick paint-in/paint-out work, so yes... I agree with that move.

Easier access to high demand masking/mask-related tasks, however, is still desirable for those who are those heavy mask users. However, the Layers panel has become quite the focal point for several workflows as it is. It's also busier UI-wise since its face list. I don't necessarily disagree with the UX of having right clicks, modifiers and extra context menus. However, consider the amount of options already flowing through the Layers panel, the depth of those dropdowns, the necessity of modifier keys, right-clicks, etc. It is bordering on excessive. I see that as a sign the panel is in need of a decoupling in terms of having so many workflows concentrated on that one area. That's why I suggested a dedicated panel to mask making makes more sense there, to pull some attention away from there. Then the menu option would still suffice. Anyway, that would need to be considered with whatever plans are in the works for future additions and if there may be improvements made here in the future (because panel clutter is also bad).

The other consideration, the Layers panel doesn't need to be so busy for people who are doing basic adjustments, light photo-editing. We still want the program to feel accessible for those users. I'm also aware that iPad/tablet user considerations come into play here. Anyway... just some thoughts, my 2 cents, take a grain of salt, not gospel, read at your own peril, etc... God speed.

[Powerhorse]

I preferred the dropdown with the mask selection , but I could also live with a right click. Still better than the long long way over the menu layers

[spiderpod7d]

Hi all

I too have been using the new layer masks in V2 so in the beta there are gone from the layers panel. I too would like to have the ability to create short cuts to access each of the three if Possible

Thanks,

 

[debraspicher]

1 hour ago, spiderpod7d said:

Hi all

I too have been using the new layer masks in V2 so in the beta there are gone from the layers panel. I too would like to have the ability to create short cuts to access each of the three if Possible

Thanks,

 

It is possible with anything in top menu. Check preferences and shortcuts can be set there. Just select the menu name and set in that list.

[RichardMH]

2 hours ago, spiderpod7d said:

Hi all

I too have been using the new layer masks in V2 so in the beta there are gone from the layers panel. I too would like to have the ability to create short cuts to access each of the three if Possible

Thanks,

 

You can set up keyboard shortcuts or macros (macros are probably only useful if you have your library open most of the time. saves remembering keys). Right click would be better.

[ronnyb]

I too prefer maintaining v2.0’s original accessibility via the mask icon but with support for long press, cmd click/right click, and the little triangle to indicate its got options behind a long press…

[Chris B]

I'm not sure right-click would work. Can we think of anywhere we can right-click the UI to get further options? Personally I think an arrow with a flyout from a long-press would work—similar to how we have it on tool flyouts that hold multiple tools.

[RichardMH]

In that vein, could there be an advanced mask tool with the 4 options?

[fde101]

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

Can we think of anywhere we can right-click the UI to get further options?

Sure, just right-click on a layer in the Layers panel, on an asset in the Assets panel, on the main toolbar across the top of the window, on a swatch in the swatches panel...

Context menus have been around since the 1970s (they were originally called "pop-up menus" and were introduced as part of SmallTalk; it took until the 1990s for Windoze and macOS to catch up with this one).

[Craig Ozancin]

5 hours ago, Chris B said:

 I think an arrow with a flyout from a long-press would work—similar to how we have it on tool flyouts that hold multiple tools.

I really do like the long-press flyo-ut option. An another option perhaps would be to use the new behavior by default, but allow setting a checkbox in preferences that changes to the fly-out method. This would allow users to decide how they want to have this function. This of course will depend on how the UI Interface is designed.

[Ash]

Ok, I think probably the best compromise right now is that we just make it that:

- Single click: adds a mask
- Alt-click: opens the menu

The vast majority of the negative feedback with the V2 change was requiring two clicks to add a mask, so at least we get back to that behaviour. Only negative vs. what we have in the beta right now is will now require two clicks to add an empty mask (as that will be part of the menu options, along with range and compound masks)

The other possibilities of right click and long press I think we just want to give more consideration to, as both things we don't really have elsewhere on action buttons such as this.

Does this sound alright for now?

 

[jc4d]

9 minutes ago, Ash said:

Alt-click: opens the menu

Fine by me as long as there is a tooltip for it

 

The real issue with long clicks as I stated before, is that users with carpal tunnel or any other wrist problem creates more restrains in the hand which is not ergonomic.

[Craig Ozancin]

3 hours ago, Ash said:

Ok, I think probably the best compromise right now is that we just make it that:

- Single click: adds a mask
- Alt-click: opens the menu

I can live with this option.

2 hours ago, jc4d said:

Fine by me as long as there is a tooltip for it

Definitely need a tooltip.

[debraspicher]

I usually just invert my mask to get to an "empty mask" with Ctrl + I after adding so having the empty mask removed as a direct option is fine. For me, personally.

[user_0815]

I immediately liked and embraced the drop down when I first saw it in 2.0. The extra click is a very low price for me because I use the built-in mask in most cases. I don't add a basic mask via that button often, for example only when masking a group or a pixel layer.

When the drop down didn't show up in the beta, the first thing I tried intuitively was a right click and a long click and an alt-click (in that order). 

The way I use it currently is click-drag-release which I find quicker than two clicks for small menus. But most people don't know that way or aren't used to it.

Alt-click seems to be a good middle way.

[Ash]

In the latest update (1736) we have now made it so single click adds a mask and alt-click gives the expanded drop down...