Insertion target does not persist

[NotMyFault]

Hi,

when setting the insertion target mode to e.g. "inside", this will apply to only one layer adding, and then reset to "on top" automatically. This makes no sense.

 

https://affinity.help/photo2/English.lproj/pages/LayerOperations/target.html

[loukash]

3 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

This makes no sense.

I always thought this is "by design", but after reading the help page, apparently not.
That said, I'm actually fine with this being a "one-off" setting that auto-reverts to default. So I'd rather have the help page changed to match the actual behavior.

[MikeTO]

I think this is a bug and not by design.

[NotMyFault]

5 hours ago, loukash said:

I always thought this is "by design", but after reading the help page, apparently not.
That said, I'm actually fine with this being a "one-off" setting that auto-reverts to default. So I'd rather have the help page changed to match the actual behavior.

It is useless when self-resetting. You can always adjust the layer position after creation with one click-drag - which is about the same effort as changing insertion target before. It will save effort only in the case when the setting persists. I currently can’t remember any other setting self-resetting.

• Having a check-mark at the selected symbol gives the impression of being persistent.
• The default state is not shown as check-mark. 
• insertion target symbol „on top“ would then needed be changed to „reset“ symbol, not getting a check-mark if selected. Or having a check-mark always present by default.

[Dan C]

Thanks for your report - there certainly seems to be some inconsistencies here.

Firstly, the UI reverts to having no Targeting option selected after drawing the first object, however the behaviour will continue until a new selection is made. I would expect the UI option to remain active, until the behaviour is no longer true.
For example, draw a rectangle and with this selected enable Insert Inside Selection.
Draw 1 rectangle, which is automatically nested within the parent rectangle and the UI now returns to default.
Without deselecting, draw one or multiple more rectangles, all of which are added inside, contrary to the UI state.
The same is true of Layer > Insertion > Inside.

Secondly, as above, the behaviour remains until a new selection is made which is not as the help-file reads.
For example, draw a rectangle and with this selected enable Insert Inside Selection.
Draw 1 rectangle, which is automatically nested within the parent rectangle and the UI now returns to default.
Deselect the drawn rectangles and draw one or multiple more rectangles, all of which are added as top layers, contrary to the help file

However I'm not 100% certain if this is expected behaviour and the helpfile is incorrect, or if the application is incorrect, as this is the same behaviour I'm seeing in V1 with these options.

I'll be logging the above with our developers now for further investigation and consideration as to which needs to be adjusted, being sure to provide your personal preference.

I hope this helps!

[MikeTO]

33 minutes ago, Dan C said:

Thanks for your report - there certainly seems to be some inconsistencies here.

Firstly, the UI reverts to having no Targeting option selected after drawing the first object, however the behaviour will continue until a new selection is made. I would expect the UI option to remain active, until the behaviour is no longer true.
For example, draw a rectangle and with this selected enable Insert Inside Selection.
Draw 1 rectangle, which is automatically nested within the parent rectangle and the UI now returns to default.
Without deselecting, draw one or multiple more rectangles, all of which are added inside, contrary to the UI state.
The same is true of Layer > Insertion > Inside.

Secondly, as above, the behaviour remains until a new selection is made which is not as the help-file reads.
For example, draw a rectangle and with this selected enable Insert Inside Selection.
Draw 1 rectangle, which is automatically nested within the parent rectangle and the UI now returns to default.
Deselect the drawn rectangles and draw one or multiple more rectangles, all of which are added as top layers, contrary to the help file

Is this what is really happening? I think the second shape is being drawn on top of the first shape which is inside of the original shape.

1. Select a layer (A) and turn on Insert Inside Selection
2. Draw a shape (B) - it is drawn inside A - Insert Inside Selection turns off
3. Draw a shape (C) - it is drawn on top of layer B which is inside A, this is what should happen with Insert Inside Selection turned off. If it was really turned on then layer C would be drawn inside layer B.

It's more obvious with Insert Behind than Insert Inside.

[NotMyFault]

For me it seems to reset after every single layer addition. Assume inside has been chosen:
 

After adding a layer, the layer stack has now the newly created object chosen, so additional layers get added on top of the 2nd layer, effectively inside again.

[Dan C]

4 hours ago, MikeTO said:

Is this what is really happening? I think the second shape is being drawn on top of the first shape which is inside of the original shape.

Apologies, I hadn't considered this - if this setting was 'sticky' then I'd agree the third object drawn would be nested within the second, which is nested within the first (parent) object.

I'll be sure to update the development log regarding this now

[NotMyFault]

Well, why not let the choice to the user?

for me it makes no sense to have an insertion target to be made before every single use if the correction needs the identical effort. It saves nothing and is useless.

I see the following use cases for getting sticky insertion target:

• i want do add multiple layers, all below instead of on top. E.g. power duplicate. The inserted layer needs to become active after adding.
   The normal mode inserts always above, would leading to an inverse layer sequence.
• i want to add multiple different layers nested. The parent layer is selected and should stay selected the whole time.
• i want to add layers above.

 

[Pšenda]

30 minutes ago, NotMyFault said:

Well, why not let the choice to the user?

The user should decide how the application will behave, not the other way around, so that the application dictates its behavior to the user.