Voronoi live filter broken

[CM0]

The voronoi live filter keeps changing the image if the image is moved.

The image on the left and image on the right are the same, but the voronoi effect changes only because of the image position. It is not possible to use the live effect and reposition elements in a composition which nullifies any reason I would have for using the live filter.

[walt.farrell]

Perhaps I'm confused, but what else would you expect a Live filter to do when you change the image you've applied it to? If you don't want it to be Live, perhaps you should Merge it once you've used it?

[CM0]

55 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Perhaps I'm confused, but what else would you expect a Live filter to do when you change the image you've applied it to? If you don't want it to be Live, perhaps you should Merge it once you've used it?

I haven't changed the image. That is the point. The live filter keeps changing the image despite the fact the pixels are the same.

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, CM0 said:

I haven't changed the image.

Then what do you mean by:

 

1 hour ago, CM0 said:

It is not possible to use the live effect and reposition elements in a composition

If you've moved something around, that's changing the image.

[CM0]

1 minute ago, walt.farrell said:

Then what do you mean by:

 

If you've moved something around, that's changing the image.

If move an image, none of the pixel data in the image changes. There is no use case that makes sense for moving an image and it changes. How could you ever place objects in a composition reliably if they change how they look when moved? That doesn't make sense. This is not how other live filters operate. At least the ones that work properly, there are others broken in similar fashion.

The Live Perspective filter is one that works properly. If you move the image, it keeps the perspective without any further changes or distortions. However, if you apply the filter to its parent layer, then yes when you move it changes with the perspective applied to the parent. This is how Voronoi and all the live filter should work. Otherwise you can never move anything in a composition. Also, you can't use art boards either. Fixing this would fix both.

[Lisbon]

1 hour ago, CM0 said:

The voronoi live filter keeps changing the image if the image is moved.

Voronoi works with a fixed grid. You can test this with two different images with exactly the same dimensions.
Let's assume that the color of each cell is determined based on the average of the pixels of the original image.
So if the grid is fixed and you change the position of the original image, the pixel average for each cell will be different.

[CM0]

Just now, Lisbon said:

Voronoi works with a fixed grid. You can test this with two different images with exactly the same dimensions.
Let's assume that the color of each cell is determined based on the average of the pixels of the original image.
So if the grid is fixed and you change the position of the original image, the pixel average for each cell will be different.

I know, that is not the problem. It is the grid is anchored to the document and not the layer for which you are applying the effect. Just as I pointed out above with Perspective Filter. It is the same, the only difference is it properly applies the reference point for the effect to the layer you attached the filter.

[Lisbon]

7 minutes ago, CM0 said:

It is the grid is anchored to the document and not the layer for which you are applying the effect.

I see.

I think you should make a feature request because i think that this fixed grid attached to the document is intencionial by design.

[CM0]

6 minutes ago, Lisbon said:

I see.

I think you should make a feature request because i think that this fixed grid attached to the document is intencionial by design.

I disagree. The filters should work consistently. If they all worked this way, then maybe. However, why would they design them purposely to be inconsistent? Also, I can't think of a use case of why you would ever want it to work this way. Why would you purposely want the filter to only partially apply to the layer you attach it to?

[Lisbon]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for consistency.
Brightness and contrast by default works in a non-linear way, but in the Develop persona it is linear. Should I report this as a bug?!
What I'm saying is that I suspect the fixed grid was intentional hence my suggestion for a feature request.
Maybe i'll do the same for Brightness and contrast in Develop Persona 😀

[David in Яuislip]

If you create an image
apply the live voronoi filter,
save it as a .afphoto file
place that embedded into your target document
then you can move the placed image around and the voronoi effect won't change; you can double click it to change the live voronoi settings

So the feature that I think you need is doable even if it means going around the block to get it

[CM0]

5 minutes ago, David in Яuislip said:

If you create an image
apply the live voronoi filter,
save it as a .afphoto file
place that embedded into your target document
then you can move the placed image around and the voronoi effect won't change; you can double click it to change the live voronoi settings

So the feature that I think you need is doable even if it means going around the block to get it

Yikes, that is more work than just not using the live filter. I would just rasterize it and keep a copy of the original.

[CM0]

21 minutes ago, Lisbon said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for consistency.
Brightness and contrast by default works in a non-linear way, but in the Develop persona it is linear. Should I report this as a bug?!
What I'm saying is that I suspect the fixed grid was intentional hence my suggestion for a feature request.
Maybe i'll do the same for Brightness and contrast in Develop Persona 😀

Inconsistency is often considered a defect most of the time by development. Just looking at it from a developers point of view as that is what I do.

However, this is more than just inconsistency, it is that it is not possible to perform the operation as needed. It is just broken.

Nonetheless, it is mostly irrelevant as long as they acknowledge this is undesirable behavior and change it. Regardless as to whether it is a defect or feature, these problems are killing my workflow throughout the product. I've open bunches of bugs related to this topic.

[Dan C]

Hi CMO

The Voronoi pattern is generated on global coordinates not local, it may be worthwhile adding a suggestion to the forum for an option for local generation of the Voronoi pattern.

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/forum/122-feedback-for-the-affinity-v2-suite-of-products/

Lee

[CM0]

2 minutes ago, LeeThorpe said:

Hi CMO

The Voronoi pattern is generated on global coordinates not local, it may be worthwhile adding a suggestion to the forum for an option for local generation of the Voronoi pattern.

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/forum/122-feedback-for-the-affinity-v2-suite-of-products/

Lee

Well, it is a bigger problem than Voronoi. I had opened a lot of bugs on other filters about not working in art boards. Later realized that it is not art boards. It is just the anchor coordinates. So many of them broken. This has been recognized for some other filters. I just wish Affinity would finally decide to raise the priority of fixing it. It affects so much functionality.

Maybe I should later open a new request and link every single issue related to this one.

[Dan C]

15 hours ago, CM0 said:

Well, it is a bigger problem than Voronoi. I had opened a lot of bugs on other filters about not working in art boards. Later realized that it is not art boards. It is just the anchor coordinates. So many of them broken. This has been recognized for some other filters. I just wish Affinity would finally decide to raise the priority of fixing it. It affects so much functionality.

Maybe I should later open a new request and link every single issue related to this one.

The reason I ask to make a suggestion post for a toggle is that it is not broken, just a choice between two methods. One some users will prefer and others would not.

If this is changed to suit you, another user will post asking why this has been changed.

Lee

[Alfred]

1 hour ago, LeeThorpe said:

it is not broken, just a choice between two methods

I think the problem is that it’s the developer who makes that choice, not the user. Couldn’t we have a Preferences setting for this, so that those of us who are happy with the current implementation could continue to use it, but there would be an alternative for those like @CM0 who want it to work differently?

[Dan C]

6 minutes ago, Alfred said:

I think the problem is that it’s the developer who makes that choice, not the user. Couldn’t we have a Preferences setting for this, so that those of us who are happy with the current implementation could continue to use it, but there would be an alternative for those like @CM0 who want it to work differently?

I believe so, this is why I asked the poster to add a suggestion to the feedback area of the forum.

Lee

[Alfred]

25 minutes ago, LeeThorpe said:

I believe so, this is why I asked the poster to add a suggestion to the feedback area of the forum.

Lee

Thanks, Lee. It might help if I could read! 

17 hours ago, LeeThorpe said:

it may be worthwhile adding a suggestion to the forum for an option for local generation of the Voronoi pattern

 

[CM0]

4 hours ago, LeeThorpe said:

The reason I ask to make a suggestion post for a toggle is that it is not broken, just a choice between two methods. One some users will prefer and others would not.

If this is changed to suit you, another user will post asking why this has been changed.

Lee

There is no way this not broken.  No user wants this behavior. I don't think you understand the problem.

Give me a use case for why the user would want the image to change if they simply add a new Art Board to the layout?

Do you realize that if you have 50 Art Boards that use Voronoi, and you add one Art Board all 50 other Art Boards change in appearance due to this bug? There is no workaround for this.

[Old Bruce]

2 hours ago, CM0 said:

There is no way this not broken.  No user wants this behavior.

Here is one.

Although I do see you wanting something equally valid. So let us hope there is a toggle set up.

[CM0]

2 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Here is one.

Although I do see you wanting something equally valid. So let us hope there is a toggle set up.

So you are saying, you create an Art Board for a client. It is complete. You go and create another Art Board for the client it is complete.

Then the client asks for change in the first art Board and you can no longer make that change because the first art board changed when you added the 2nd.

This is the behavior you actually want? 

[Old Bruce]

2 minutes ago, CM0 said:

So you are saying, you create an Art Board .... etc.

No I am not saying that. I have not had that specific situation occur.

[CM0]

4 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

No I am not saying that. I have not had that specific situation occur.

This is the problem. It occurs in single documents as well when doing compositions, just easy to demonstrate here.

The problem is that this filter, unlike others like Perspective, incorrectly sets the reference point to the document. This causes all kind of artifact problems such as below.

It is impossible to move the image without changing the image. I don't think anyone wants this behavior.

Understand, no toggle is needed. Just attach the reference point for the layer of the filter. If you want different behavior, just move the filter to another layer. With Live Perspective, you can choose how you want it to operate by just adding the filter to the correct layer. You don't need a toggle. A filter acting on the layer you attach it to is the most intuitive. A filter that has side effects from things outside the layer is not intuitive or desirable.

[Old Bruce]

Okay, but as I said I have never had a situation like that.

And for what it is worth the "Grid's" offset appears to be linked to the Vertical offset of the two artboards. Not the Horizontal.