Alt / Option click to expand / collapse all in the Layers panel

[Ash]

Apps: All
Platforms: Windows, macOS and iPad

In all apps you can use the Option (macOS and iPad) or Alt (Windows) modifier on the expand chevron in the layers panel. If you hold the modifier that will now expand all groups, layers and other nested items within the parent, and going the other way will collapse them all. This provides a more convenient / accessible way to achieve the "Expand Selection" and "Collapse Selection" options which are available in the right click layers menu on desktop. For iPad this is the first time this function has been available at all (requires using the ⌥ modifier with command controller, or ⌥ key on a connected keyboard.

[Patrick Connor]

Known Issues

No known issues at this time. 

Further known issues will be added to this list as they are reported to us by customers in this thread.

Fixed Issues

• AFD-6398 - Windows: If a nested layer is collapsed with Alt held down, it collapses the nested layer below.
• AFD-6446 - Windows: Focus is not moved to parent layer when closed via layer bar next to child layer.

[Intuos5]

On Windows 10.0.19045.2486 (22H2) Affinity Designer 2.1.0.1706, if collapse a layer with Alt held down, it collapses the other layer below. Even though there are no nested layers inside the layer I collapse, it should collapse the layer I want to collapse and not affect others.

 

Steps to reproduce

1. Create two layers with a bunch of objects

2. Add the two layers as children to a new, empty layer

3. Expand all layers

4. Hold alt and collapse the top layer

5. Notice the bottom layer collapses and the clicked layer does nothing.

 

[Hangman]

14 minutes ago, Intuos5 said:

On Windows 10.0.19045.2486 (22H2) Affinity Designer 2.1.0.1706, if collapse a layer with Alt held down, it collapses the other layer below.

This appears to be Windows specific as it's working as expected on macOS.

[Hangman]

Proposed enhancement for this feature...

Currently, if dragging a Layer in the Layers Panel with a view to nesting it in an existing closed Group your only option is to drag it over the Group name resulting in that Layer being added to the top of the closed Group...

It would be great, if when dragging a Layer over a Group, holding the Option (macOS and iPad) or Alt (Windows) modifier and offering the Layer to the Group's chevron, that doing so then expanded the Group, thereby allowing you to postion the dragged layer at the appropriate postion within the Group's layer stack.

Currently this is a three stage process (assuming you are dragging to a closed Group, which happens in particularly complex documents with good houesekeeping)...

1. Drag Layer over closed Group name so it becomes nested in the Group
2. Expand Group using Group chevron
3. Select newly nested Layer and drag to the appropriate position in the Group layer stack

Providing the propsed option would allow you to place the dragged layer in the appropriate position within the Group's layer stack using a simple one step drag and drop process...

This should then continue to work for nested groups as well while you continue to offer the dragged Layer to each respective Group's chevron basically allowing you to expand Groups within Groups within Groups with a simple Option / Alt drag to postion the dragged Layer seemlessly...

[Old Bruce]

5 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Proposed enhancement for this feature...

What about an expansion happening after holding the layer on the disclosure triangle for a full beat or two? As it stand now if I select a layer and start to move it then hit the Option key I can make a copy of the layer.

[Intuos5]

Why hold on the chevron? Hovering over a closed group or layer could expand it after say 1s, drop it on the group/ layer itself and the dragged items move to the top of the group.

I fear using the chevron gets a bit finicky due to the small hitbox. A timer based expand feature could be very intuitive.

I also think that if you decide not to drop the items on the just expanded group/ layer, it should autocollapse once the items are dropped elsewhere.

[Hangman]

3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

What about an expansion happening after holding the layer on the disclosure triangle for a full beat or two? As it stand now if I select a layer and start to move it then hit the Option key I can make a copy of the layer.

That's the beauty though, select a Layer holding the Option (macOS and iPad) or Alt (Windows) modifier and drag and you create a duplicate if you release the mouse but with the same keyboard combo, if you drag the Layer over a Group, you're not duplicating the Layer, you are simply nesting it within the Group...

[Hangman]

14 minutes ago, Intuos5 said:

Why hold on the chevron? Hovering over a closed group or layer could expand it after say 1s, drop it on the group/ layer itself and the dragged items move to the top of the group.

My only concern with that is we already have two drop zone, one over the Group icon to add the Layer as a mask, the second over the Group name to add the Layer as a nested item, both already have a short delay so I could imagine that method becoming very confusing... I'm certainly not adverse to the idea but I just thought why not make the chevron a third drop zone to avoid any confusion...

14 minutes ago, Intuos5 said:

I fear using the chevron gets a bit finicky due to the small hitbox.

Quite possibly on large, high res monitors I guess but then that is more a UI issue that perhaps needs a little improvement maybe?

14 minutes ago, Intuos5 said:

I also think that if you decide not to drop the items on the just expanded group/ layer, it should autocollapse once the items are dropped elsewhere.

Totally agree, I would say that was essential to avoid loads of unwanted, expanded Groups...

[Old Bruce]

9 minutes ago, Hangman said:

if you drag the Layer over a Group, you're not duplicating the Layer, you are simply nesting it within the Group...

Yes but I want to nest the Copy in the group. Actually not nest but Clip the Group, or rather some of it's contents. Hence the need to copy (current improvement which I really like) and then expand the group with the copy.

[Hangman]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

Yes but I want to nest the Copy in the group. Actually not nest but Clip the Group, or rather some of it's contents. Hence the need to copy (current improvement which I really like) and then expand the group with the copy.

Then I'd simply select the Layer, Cmd J to duplicate an then drag the duplicated Layer over the Group to expand it and add appropriately based on what I wanted to achieve... Currently even with the new functionality you can't use the keyboard shortcut to add a copy directly to a closed Group... The key here being a closed Group...

[Hangman]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

I can here on Mac. I just choose the area over the word/name area, not the thumbnail. The copy winds up at the top of the stack of layers.

Fair point, yes you can but the copy still ends up at the top of the Groups' layer stack and this all goes back to my original point, whether it's a copy or an original layer you are repositioning, having the option of dragging the layer over the chevron to auto expand the group without the need to have to go through a three step process (with a closed Group) seems to me like a good productivity enhancement...

It's only a suggestion, I can't really see any negatives to the idea... how it's implemented, well, hopefully in a way that makes the most sense, whether by adding a third drop zone, the chevron, which to me seems the most practical option to avoid any confusion or conflict with the two existing drop zones but whichever way it works it can only be an enhancement, in my eyes at least...

[Old Bruce]

2 minutes ago, Hangman said:

It's only a suggestion, I can't really see any negatives to the idea... how it's implemented

I really think this would be an improvement that everyone would be on board with. But as you and I have shown it is in the implantation that is going to be cause difficulties.

I am a fan of dragging and holding for a One, and, Two it is opened. I can see that others will find it difficult to use. Hell there could even be the horrid situation with the Wacom pen being unable to trigger this as happens with clicking on Macros in Photo.

So yes, maybe a chorded keyboard shortcut to trigger it.

[Hangman]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

I really think this would be an improvement that everyone would be on board with. But as you and I have shown it is in the implantation that is going to be cause difficulties.

Haha, I'm just the ideas man not the programmer... 😂

[Old Bruce]

13 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Haha, I'm just the ideas man not the programmer

Reminds me of Oddball's line in Kelly's Heroes "Oh man, I just drive them. I don't know what makes them go." 

[Intuos5]

If you want to add another drag amd drop zone, then you might as well implement this the way illustrator did. Add a dot mark for any selected item (all the way up in the hierarchy to the top level layer). Drag and drop the dot to any layer/ group. But unlike Illustrator, you could make it so that you can drop in between items to position the selection in between. This has the advantage that you can easily visualise your selection.

But the main issue is that holding/ pressing alt when dragging would now end up duplicating items. So you cannot use the alt hotkey to expand groups.

[Hangman]

19 minutes ago, Intuos5 said:

But the main issue is that holding/ pressing alt when dragging would now end up duplicating items. So you cannot use the alt hotkey to expand groups.

I think that’s only the case when you release the mouse button while Alt dragging so as long as you only release the mouse button once you’ve either duplicated and positioned the duplicate or repositioned said layer within a closed group then it should work (I think)…

[Ash]

Thanks for this feedback - I think the auto expand of a parent item like a group when you are dragging another layer into it is a solid idea and could potentially be dealt with just after a little delay (as it does in finder, etc. when you drag a file over a folder). This might not be something we have time to add this time around but will get it on the list.

[Hangman]

If it can be achieved with a finder like delay that’s perfect and I’m sure would be preferred, my only concern was not ‘upsetting’ people who actually wanted to either add as a mask by dragging over the layer icon or nest without expanding the group by dragging over layer name and paused too long resulting in inadvertently expanding the group instead… 😀

[Intuos5]

7 hours ago, Hangman said:

my only concern was not ‘upsetting’ people who actually wanted to either add as a mask by dragging over the layer icon or nest without expanding the group by dragging over layer name and paused too long resulting in inadvertently expanding the group instead… 😀

Which is why I think that any auto-expanded layer/ group that is not used to nest an item in, should be collapsed automatically as well when you drop the items elsewhere. This ensures that you have access to the opened layer/ group while dragging, but also cleans up the layer panel after the fact. Though, I guess you'd need to test whether the layer/ group should auto close after expanding if you hover focus out of it or whether it should only collapse after dropping the dragged items.

[Hangman]

3 hours ago, anto said:

I have layer with many objects and group is opened. When i click on any object inside of group, is it possible to close group?

I don't believe so, the closest you can get is Layer > Collapse All in Layers Panel which can have a keyboard shortcut assigned but will close all groups in the Layers panel or by selecting the parent element of the group Select > Select Parent (which can also have a keyboard shortcut assigned) or right click a Layer in the Layers panel and choose Select Parent or simply by selecting the parent Layer in the Layers panel and then select Collapse Selection, again a right click on a Layer in the Layers panel, which, as far as I'm aware, you can't assign a keyboard shortcut to...

[Intuos5]

If you could explicitly exit group/ sublayer editing, then it would be easy to tell to auto-collapse the layer/ group that was being edited if it had to be expanded by double clicking or ctrl click to edit.

[Hangman]

5 minutes ago, anto said:

This line closes the group.

I genuinely did not know that, thank you...

 

5 minutes ago, anto said:

Is it possible to do it so that clicking on this vertical line immediately hits the parent layer?

It's working for me, I don't know if you need to have Auto-scroll selected in the Layers panel for it to work on Windows but it works on Mac...

[mykee]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:57 AM, Ash said:

In all apps you can use the Option (macOS and iPad) or Alt (Windows) modifier on the expand chevron in the layers panel. If you hold the modifier that will now expand all groups, layers and other nested items within the parent, and going the other way will collapse them all.

This does not work under Windows. I have tried ALT and ALTGr by clicking on the arrow in front of the group, it does not open the groups, only the current one.

[Intuos5]

I thought it wasn't working too, but the behaviour changed throughout the Beta. It does work as advertised on windows, you need to keep Alt pressed when clicking on the chevron.