Affinity Photo - Camera simulating color profiles like in professionel programs (iPadOS)

[Red Sands]

As you can see, I have Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop for iPadOS, so I'm fully covered. I'm just curious if Photo has anything similar. I'm familiar with LUTs etc - I'm only asking about built-in functionality in the RAW module Serif has pieced together from various components e.g. LensFun. I know all about RAW and what it is, and what camera profiles and LUTs are, so please just answer my primary question, please. 🙂 

I have been looking in Affinity Photo for colour profiles when I open a RAW image. That is, colour profiles that roughly match the camera manufacturer's, or similarly provided colour profiles for Vivid, landscape, portrait, natural or neutral.

It certainly does matter which ones you use. I am very happy that in Adobe and Capture One Pro, as well as DxO on my computer, I can use out of the box colour profiles that match the colour profiles I know from Nikon, Canon, Fuji and Olympus.

So to the point, have I overlooked such profiles in Photo for iPadOS? Like these (Adobe Lightroom CC):

[lepr]

There's nothing like that in the Develop Persona of AP.

[Red Sands]

7 minutes ago, ,,, said:

There's nothing like that in the Develop Persona of AP.

Thanks, that alone effectively takes Affinity Photo out of my RAW conversions (wouldn’t have great chances, just tried the highlight recovery, oh my goodnes that is low tech and weak algorithms), but still is a good companion for Affinity Designer though.

[v_kyr]

7 hours ago, Red Sands said:

I have been looking in Affinity Photo for colour profiles when I open a RAW image. That is, colour profiles that roughly match the camera manufacturer's, or similarly provided colour profiles for Vivid, landscape, portrait, natural or neutral.

Nope, APh hasn't any clues about such camera vendors specific settings and so it also doesn't take those into account or makes any use out of such corresponding  "vendor metadata exif tags". - In short, meaning that it doesn't know how to deal with for example ... Nikon's Picture Control System, or Active D-Lighting ... etc.

[Red Sands]

8 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Nope, APh hasn't any clues about such camera vendors specific settings and so it also doesn't take those into account or makes any use out of such corresponding  "vendor metadata exif tags". - In short, meaning that it doesn't know how to deal with for example ... Nikon's Picture Control System, or Active D-Lighting ... etc.

Thanks. Ah, no need to support all the camera vendor algorithms and adjustments and EXIF, no one does that except the vendors, but some support of the in camera colour profiles would be great. I saw the default conversions from several RAW formats and the are dull and flat. I can get the exact same result from open source RAW converters, but I use professional software only for my professional work and personal use.

Cameras today are excellent, pointless to ruin their potential and individuality and rendering of sensor data with a dull, flat conversion of just data.

[v_kyr]

19 minutes ago, Red Sands said:

... but some support of the in camera colour profiles would be great.

If you say color profiles that associates to me more color space profiles (aka sRGB, AdobeRGB ...) which every RAW converter has to support. But what you mean here concrete are vendor specific color config settings / presets (... like Standard, Neutral, Vivid, Monochrome, Portrait, Landscape, and Balanced etc.) and that's in case of Nikon (as I already said above) part of their Picture Control System, and the information therefor is stores in the Nikon specific vendor EXIF data part of every captured cam image! - It will be similar for other cam vendors here, but every vendor bakes it's own color configs here!

And in order to make any use out of that, third party RAW converters have to be able to interpret those vendor based config settings in EXIFs correctly, what only (beside the vendors own RAW converters & tools) very few better third party commercial RAW converters can do.

[Red Sands]

29 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

If you say color profiles that associates to me more color space profiles (aka sRGB, AdobeRGB ...) which every RAW converter has to support. But what you mean here concrete are vendor specific color config settings / presets (... like Standard, Neutral, Vivid, Monochrome, Portrait, Landscape, and Balanced etc.) and that's in case of Nikon (as I already said above) part of their Picture Control System, and the information therefor is stores in the Nikon specific vendor EXIF data part of every captured cam image! - It will be similar for other cam vendors here, but every vendor bakes it's own color configs here!

As I said in my first post, I know what I am talking about. 🙂

The profiles offered in Photoshop, Lightroom and others are not from Nikon and other vendors, as far as I know. They are merely good approximations from Adobe or whoever, they are installed with Photoshop or whoever and I hoped that open source programs now had pieced together similar camera profiles. As you can see Adobe made their OWN generic profiles with their own colour profile suggestions. And I actually prefer them from time to time. Good work, Adobe. But of course the profiles used in the cameras and stored in a JPG after in-camera processing are baked by the vendors!

You don’t necessarily need to use full EXIF data and configure AP using them. Just let AP extract the camera model and lens profile then select an appropriate camera colour profile or offer even more (portrait, vidid). Selecting the approximated colour profiles manually is fine with me, as long as they are there. Even if there is just ONE per camera profile, I am fine with it. But it must be more than a flat, dull default. Some default adjustments AND colour characteristics must be made to the profile to render the images similarly to the default in-camera processing. Capture One and DxO Photolab does only that but pretty good. And pretty good is enough.

Never mind, Affinity Photo renders neutralized impersonal images and do not offer such profiles, I can't use that. 

[v_kyr]

1 hour ago, Red Sands said:

🙂The profiles offered in Photoshop, Lightroom and others are not from Nikon and other vendors, as far as I know.

My point is/was more that they named that PROFILES which aren't ICC-/ICM-Profiles but instead just specific coloring presets, aimed after those the specific cam vendors use internally as optionals. - So what Adobe calls/named here Profiles are more specific Presets for me (Nikon for example calls them Picture Controls). -- So "Color Profile = Color Presets" here.

1 hour ago, Red Sands said:

You don’t necessarily need to use full EXIF data and configure AP using them. Just extract the camera model and lens profile. Select an appropriate colour profile or offer even more (portrait, vidid). Selecting the approximated colour profiles manually is fine with me, as long as they are there.

Yes, you are not forced to take those out of the EXIF data, you can apply them anytime via the software afterwards too, even if they have not be setup in the cam during image capturing. Since then they're just going to simulate those on demand (...what some third party RAW tools offer and support to do). - But in order to know if one and which one was in cam setup during image capturing session, you have to read it out from the image EXIF settings here. - That's the point I meant!

Only the better RAW converters (CaptureOne, Lightroom, DxO ...) do offer this functionality since you have to know all camera vendors cams and systems well therefor in order to simulate this in the same way as the venfors do in cam and with their own software. - Affinity's RAW converter is (as many other opensource ones too) based on the free LibRaw here, which AFAIK doesn't support and take that into account.

 

[Red Sands]

Profile, preset, whatever the term used, I expect a RAW converter to deliver colors  and contrast similar to the camera manufacters default output. If reds and greens etc. are off, what is the point then.

I have and use Capture One Professional, DxO Photolab and Adobe Photoshop/Lightroom CC. Only Adobe delivers camera colour profiles/presets matching the different camera shooting modes, but they ALL recognize the camera and apply a camera color profile. They do not adjust any settings in the interface like Capture NX. They don’t deliver identical results but colors do look fine.

Last time I checked an open source program - Darktable? - that had an absolutly disgusting and complex messed up user interface, it did offer some choice. It did identify the camera and applied a satisfying colour profile. Reds and Greens in particular were almost right. I could also select another camera profile - sometimes you can use other profiles creatively or just when the camera is not recognized. I can in Capture One Professional. When I know the sensor manufacturer, I know what profiles might work.

These RAW converters are best and professional because the vendors actually render colors correctly/naturally and on top of it enhances the image a bit.

https://www.adobepress.com/articles/article.asp?p=2979060&seqNum=5

https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/adjust-color-rendering-camera-camera.html

[v_kyr]

49 minutes ago, Red Sands said:

Profile, preset, whatever the term used, I expect a RAW converter to deliver colors  and contrast similar to the camera manufacters default output. If reds and greens etc. are off, what is the point then.

I have and use Capture One Professional, DxO Photolab and Adobe Photoshop/Lightroom CC. Only Adobe delivers camera colour profiles/presets matching the different camera shooting modes, but they ALL recognize the camera and apply a camera color profile.

All those Adobe, C1, DxO ... do check cams, lenses etc. on their own and have specialized teams for this of course in a much more professional way. They also don't rely on free opensource volunteering people and software ( like LibRaw, Lensfun etc.) therefor. Also they come pretty close(r) to what the cam vendors (who of course finally know their cam equippment and internal software best) themself do offer here. - IMO one can't really compare APh's development persona to pro RAW converter software like C1 or Lightroom, there are of course differences like day & night between these here.

Darktable, well have some longer time not looking after that one, same as for RAWTherapee (which is good for workings in LAB mode), or DigiKam and the like. - As a Nikonian I personally use for RAW processing mostly Capture NX/Nikon Studio, C1 and partly DxO, since these do give me personally the best image results. - In the past I've used Lightroom and Aperture too but abondoned those years before. I don't use APh for RAW processing, just for other image manipulations and tweakings.