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non-editable layers?


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Greetings, All,

I've recently purchased Affinity 2 Suite. I'm working in Affinity Designer, and have encountered a curious problem where some layers' colors aren't able to be changed, though they are editable in every other way (moved, rotated, erased, etc.).

Though I've read through documentation, searched the Affinity User forum, and watched a number of tutorials, I can't find the answer to the problem. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks in advance,

Joshua Stamper

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Are they Image layers, pixel layers, vector object layers, or something else?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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1 minute ago, Joshua Stamper said:

Hi there R C-R,

Thanks for the reply. It's a PDF exported from another program. As far as I can discern, all elements are vector layers.

Attached is the file in question. You'll notice that all the layers associated with staff lines, barlines, ledger lines, and note stems, aren't color changeable.
 

Thanks so much for your help.

Pedaling Questions-Affinity trouble shooting.afdesign

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Some of those items seem to be frame text items but I can change the fill color of all of them.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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26 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Some of those items seem to be frame text items but I can change the fill color of all of them.

Really?

I'm clearly doing something wrong then. When I 'select all' and then change the color, everything but the staff lines, bar lines, ledger lines, and note stems changes. These items just remain black.

I've also tried going into the layers list and select just the layers and changing the color. Same issue.

Is there some simple step I'm neglecting?

Also, how do you determine which items are frame text items?

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How specifically are you trying to change the color? Are you using the Color panel or something else? If that panel, do you have the color well for the fill color selected/frontmost or the stroke color one?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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4 minutes ago, R C-R said:

How specifically are you trying to change the color? Are you using the Color panel or something else? If that panel, do you have the color well for the fill color selected/frontmost or the stroke color one?

Thanks. I've tried using the color wheel and swatches, trying to change the color of both the stroke and the fill, to no effect. I've also tried going to the ribbon on the right next to "curve" and changing the color there as well, but haven't had any better luck there.

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Maybe try just coping a few of the layers you are having problems with to a new afdesign document & adding that to this topic so we can see if there is anything obvious about why this is not working for you.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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9 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Maybe try just coping a few of the layers you are having problems with to a new afdesign document & adding that to this topic so we can see if there is anything obvious about why this is not working for you.

Good idea. And thank you for your time with this. See attached.

Pedaling Questions-Affinity trouble shooting-Problem Elements.afdesign

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I downloaded your file:
I can also change the colour easily. Duplicated the artboard and grouped the lines to easier to change.
Are you accidentally trying to change the fill colour rather than the stroke colour on the colour palate?

 

change colour.afdesign

 

Affinity Version 1 (10.6) Affinity Version 2.4.1 All (Designer | Photo | Publisher)   Beta; 2.4 2.2356
OS:Windows 10 Pro 22H2 OS Build 19045.4046+ Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.19053.1000.0
Rig:AMD FX 8350 and AMD Radeon (R9 380 Series) Settings Version 21.04.01 
Radeon Settings Version 2020
20.1.03) + Wacom Intuous 4M with driver 6.3.41-1

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Joshua Stamper said:

See attached.

All of these items are unfilled straight-line curve objects, so to change their color I just changed their stroke color in the Colors panel.

So for example, in this No Problem.afdesign version, I had no problem changing their stroke color to green.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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2 minutes ago, R C-R said:

All of these items are unfilled straight-line curve objects, so to change their color I just changed their stroke color in the Colors panel.

So for example, in this No Problem.afdesign version, I had no problem changing their stroke color to green.

 

Thank you. This must be where I'm getting confused. Sometimes when I click stroke, it outlines the object in question, rather than just changing the the color of it. So I assumed that what I wanted was fill instead. I just tried it and clicked stroke and it changed perfectly.

Why does stroke sometimes create an outline around an object?

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2 hours ago, Joshua Stamper said:

Why does stroke sometimes create an outline around an object?

A stroke does not add an outline to an object. The outline is the bounding box that appears around an object when it is selected with the Move tool.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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Thank you, R C-R and StuartRc, for your help and your patience!

If I'm working with just those isolated lines, select stroke, and the change the color, I have no trouble at all.

However, if I go back to the original file, 'select all', and then select stroke, it colors the lines like I want, but then it adds an outline (with the new color) around all of the noteheads, the time signature, the numbers.

See attached screenshots.

1 - Original.png

2 - Select All, Change Stroke Color.png

3 - Select All, Change Stroke Color, Zoomed In.png

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4 minutes ago, Joshua Stamper said:

However, if I go back to the original file, 'select all', and then select stroke, it colors the lines like I want, but then it adds an outline (with the new color) around all of the noteheads, the time signature, the numbers.

That's because they are shapes that initially had no stroke (what you are calling an outline), just a fill, so if you select them & give them a non-zero width stroke, you get what your last screenshot shows.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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3 minutes ago, R C-R said:

That's because they are shapes that initially had no stroke (what you are calling an outline), just a fill, so if you select them & give them a non-zero width stroke, you get what your last screenshot shows.

Interesting. I'm not meaning to give them a non-zero width stroke. It's seems to add a non-zero value to strokes when I click on the stroke circle.

It sounds like part of what you're getting at is that there are two types of objects here: shapes (without strokes originally) and non-shapes (which do have strokes?). And so they need to be treated differently?

I can get the effect I want if I 'select all', change 'fill' to the color I want. This changes the color of the shapes but nothing else. Then go back and select all the non-shapes (stafflines, barlines, etc.), and select 'stroke' to the same color. That works.

Is there a way to just select all, and change the color of both shapes and non-shapes at the same time?

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23 minutes ago, Joshua Stamper said:

It sounds like part of what you're getting at is that there are two types of objects here: shapes (without strokes originally) and non-shapes (which do have strokes?).

No, that is not what I am saying. Any vector shape object can have a stroke, a fill, or both. But a straight line vector object's fill will be invisible because it just fills in the area enclosed by the curve. If you add a node to it & move one of the nodes out so it is no longer inline with the other nodes, then you would see its fill color.

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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8 hours ago, Joshua Stamper said:

See attached screenshots

As a graphic designer and a musician, I'd just add that the Affinity apps are not really the ideal tool to edit music notation… ;) 
(Disclosure: When I need to write, edit, export or print music notation every now and then – even though I'm not very good at it – I use Logic Pro as it's what I use for music composing, recording, mixing anyway. But there are even better tools than that.)

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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@Joshua Stamper

One thing that may help you is the Select > Select Same and Select > Select Object (in Designer) and choose from Stroke Weight and Colour and Open/Closed Curves. Some combination will help you. And then Group the Staff Lines, then Group the Bar lInes and Group those Staff and Bars. Leaving note heads, stems, etc.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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17 hours ago, R C-R said:

No, that is not what I am saying. Any vector shape object can have a stroke, a fill, or both. But a straight line vector object's fill will be invisible because it just fills in the area enclosed by the curve. If you add a node to it & move one of the nodes out so it is no longer inline with the other nodes, then you would see its fill color.

Thanks so much for the explanation @R C-R. Things are starting to make a lot more sense. (And apologies for the delay in response - I had asked you so many questions that it triggered a 24-hour response lockdown such that I couldn't reply until now!)

10 hours ago, loukash said:

As a graphic designer and a musician, I'd just add that the Affinity apps are not really the ideal tool to edit music notation… ;) 
(Disclosure: When I need to write, edit, export or print music notation every now and then – even though I'm not very good at it – I use Logic Pro as it's what I use for music composing, recording, mixing anyway. But there are even better tools than that.)

@loukash Thanks thanks, and agreed. I work in Dorico, which is a wonderful and flexible notation program, but there are certain non-standard contemporary notational practices that it can't yet accommodate. It's become clear that I need to start in Dorico, then export to make necessary adjustments in a graphics program, and then re-import to Dorico to finish. Everything above is my first foray into the graphics realm... Just experimenting to get the tools under my belt before I start the really intense graphics work.

5 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

@Joshua Stamper

One thing that may help you is the Select > Select Same and Select > Select Object (in Designer) and choose from Stroke Weight and Colour and Open/Closed Curves. Some combination will help you. And then Group the Staff Lines, then Group the Bar lInes and Group those Staff and Bars. Leaving note heads, stems, etc.

@Old Bruce This is really helpful. Thank you. The fact that the image natively has different stroke weights for different elements (i.e. one stroke weight for noteheads, time signatures, etc. and another stroke weight for barlines, staff lines, etc.), was I think a lot of the source of my confusion. You've cleared a lot of this up.

Thanks so much to all of you!

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2 minutes ago, Joshua Stamper said:

I work in Dorico, which is a wonderful and flexible notation program, but there are certain non-standard contemporary notational practices that it can't yet accommodate.

A professional notation app that is almost three times the price of the whole Logic Pro…?! O.o

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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5 minutes ago, loukash said:

A professional notation app that is almost three times the price of the whole Logic Pro…?! O.o

Yes - but with a crossgrade (coming from Sibelius) and an educational discount (I'm a composition professor) - it came in very affordable (less than Logic Pro actually). The program is remarkable.

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12 minutes ago, Joshua Stamper said:

(I'm a composition professor)

Hence sixteenths quintuplets… :D 

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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