When will the version be available for PCs without internet?

[Seon Jae, Jeon]

When will the version of product key like version 1 that can be used on pc without internet be released?
I wonder if it will be released before the discount period ends.
thank you.

[walt.farrell]

Serif have not said anything about producing such a version. The licensing method has changed, and an Internet connection is required for V2.

[carl123]

I believe that you only need an Internet connection when you first "register/license" the app.

After that no internet connection is needed to use the app.

 

[Corgi]

The fact that you need an Internet connection to register v2 is concerning.

What it means is that a v2 license server needs to be online in perpetuity, otherwise you might not be able to register the software when you purchase a new computer.

This could happen if, say, Serif goes out of business, or is up to Affinity v18 and pulls an Adobe by simply deprecating its v2 license servers. I seem to remember some moderator implying that they might look into a non-Internet v2 activation in the future, but I can't locate the post.

In a perfect world, Serif would commit to supporting v2 activation as long as they're in business, and that, if they go out of business, they will release the v2 activation protocol so that someone else can set up an independent activation server for it.

[R C-R]

5 hours ago, Corgi said:

What it means is that a v2 license server needs to be online in perpetuity, otherwise you might not be able to register the software when you purchase a new computer.

Not necessarily. It should be possible to copy the already registered app(s) & their support folders from the old computer or from backups kept in a separate location, like an external HD or cloud server.

[Corgi]

4 minutes ago, R C-R said:

It should be possible to copy the already registered app(s) & their support folders from the old computer or from backups kept in a separate location, like an external HD or cloud server.

Has someone from Serif confirmed that this will work? In my experience with other applications, simply copying files to a new computer isn't a way to bypass activation.

[R C-R]

10 minutes ago, Corgi said:

Has someone from Serif confirmed that this will work? In my experience with other applications, simply copying files to a new computer isn't a way to bypass activation.

I do not know if they have confirmed if this will work but it has worked for me on my Macs in the past with other apps when I use the Migration Assistant. I do not know if there is anything similar for Windows.

[Corgi]

7 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I do not know if they have confirmed if this will work but it has worked for me on my Macs in the past with other apps when I use the Migration Assistant. I do not know if there is anything similar for Windows.

Well, it might work, but then again it might not. Especially if, say, you've installed v2 on one platform (Windows/Mac/ipad) and then decide you want to install it on a different platform. A better solution is to simply have Serif provide assurances that the software will continue to be register-able. 

[Old Bruce]

5 hours ago, Corgi said:

What it means is that a v2 license server needs to be online in perpetuity, otherwise you might not be unable to register the software when you purchase a new computer.

Perpetuity is a long time. More likely is there will be a time when the need for a new computer means an OS which will be unable to run the old 64 bit applications. So even if the server was up and running there would be no way to run really old software on new 128bit machines.

You'll still need the internet connection to download the software so just download, install and register the software and then turn off the internet (until you need another computer).

[v_kyr]

13 minutes ago, R C-R said:

...I do not know if there is anything similar for Windows.

Don't forget that Windows also stores & keeps a lot of settings (like license keys etc.) in it's OS specific system registry. Therefore, your method applicable to MacOS does not necessarily transfer/apply to Windows.

[R C-R]

18 minutes ago, Corgi said:

A better solution is to simply have Serif provide assurances that the software will continue to be register-able. 

How could they do that if say they were bought out by another company who decided the Affinity line should no longer be supported or available? That is exactly the kind of thing Adobe among others have done to promote their own products.

[Corgi]

3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Perpetuity is a long time. More likely is there will be a time when the need for a new computer means an OS which will be able to run the old 64 bit applications so even if the server was up and running there would be no way to run really old software on new machines.

You'll still need the internet connection to download the software so just download, install and register the software and then turn off the internet (until you need another computer).

I assume you mean "not be able" in your first sentence.

I won't need an internet connection to download the software, since I copy installation files to my NAS periodically. I'll always have access to them.

You're probably correct in that eventually new devices won't be able to run the old software. But, as you said, that's "more likely," not certain.

This situation is unacceptable long-term. I purchased a license that is supposed to be good indefinitely. The activation server should therefore also be active indefinitely. The question is whether any licensed user is going to need to install the application on a new computer after the activation server disappears. You don't know whether this will happen. Serif could go out of business tomorrow and many of us would be stuck with whatever we've got.

This should not be controversial or difficult. If Serif goes out of business, they could simply release the code for an "always approve" activation server. Or, they could release a version of their latest implementation that has no license check.

3 minutes ago, R C-R said:

How could they do that if say they were bought out by another company who decided the Affinity line should no longer be supported or available? That is exactly the kind of thing Adobe among others have done to promote their own products.

Serif is contractually obligated to allow users to activate their software. If they get bought out, the purchasing company should be required to honor Serif's contracts.

[R C-R]

4 minutes ago, Corgi said:

Serif is contractually obligated to allow users to activate their software. If they get bought out, the purchasing company should be required to honor Serif's contracts.

Serif is contractually obligated to support its software only for as long as the company exists. If it ever goes out of business for any reason, there is no longer a business that could be forced to honor any of the terms of those contracts unless there is a purchasing company that agrees to honor them, which it is not obligated to do.

[Corgi]

1 minute ago, R C-R said:

Serif is contractually obligated to support its software only for as long as the company exists. If it ever goes out of business for any reason, there is no longer a business that could be forced to honor any of the terms of those contracts unless there is a purchasing company that agrees to honor them, which it is not obligated to do.

I am frankly stumped as to why there is resistance to my point of view on this.

To reiterate: Serif has ways of mitigating the possibility of the activation server going away and leaving users hanging. While there may be unfortunate scenarios which wouldn't work out, there are certainly fairly easy steps Serif could take which will reduce the chance that users will be prevented from activating their software in the future. And, there are promises that Serif could make today which would be a first step towards that end.

In what way is that a controversial opinion?

[Old Bruce]

2 minutes ago, Corgi said:

In what way is that a controversial opinion?

Nothing controversial about it at all. Just ... well, I have learned to be cynical of any Company's promises, I tend to dismiss them as mere marketing. Corporations disappear.

I had an entire way of working with HIE film from Kodak. I had a method of printing on Agfa Brovira paper. Life was good, it was actually great. Time passed.

[R C-R]

5 minutes ago, Corgi said:

I am frankly stumped as to why there is resistance to my point of view on this.

It's a nice point of view but in the business world it isn't something that can be counted on when a company goes out of business or is bought out by another company; therefore, there is no way Serif can reasonably assure users that activation will always & forever be possible.

I suppose you could try hiring a lawyer or starting a class action suit but who would you sue, what would it cost to do so, & how long would it be before you could reasonably expect a outcome that may not even result in there being any way to activate the app?

[walt.farrell]

1 minute ago, R C-R said:

therefore, there is no way Serif can reasonably assure users that activation will always & forever be possible.

The former approach with Product Keys assured that.

The new method doesn't. We can only trust that Serif will be around for a substantial period of time, and that if they depart it will be long enough from now that we won't care. Or that they will have made some provision for users to keep using their products.

[walt.farrell]

Of course, the approach with Product Keys also did not allow for Universal Licenses across all the various Stores, which many customers wanted. So there are also benefits to the new approach.

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Corporations disappear.

FWIW, Serif Europe is not a corporation, according to Wikipedia it is a privately held limited liability company owned by its senior management.

[Corgi]

3 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Nothing controversial about it at all. Just ... well, I have learned to be cynical of any Company's promises, I tend to dismiss them as mere marketing. Corporations disappear.

I had an entire way of working with HIE film from Kodak. I had a method of printing on Agfa Brovira paper. Life was good, it was actually great. Time passed.

1 minute ago, R C-R said:

It's a nice point of view but in the business world it isn't something that can be counted on when a company goes out of business or is bought out by another company; therefore, there is no way Serif can reasonably assure users that activation will always & forever be possible.

...

I share your cynicisms. I'm not expecting a bulletproof guarantee. But don't let "perfect" be the enemy of the "good." Just because Serif can't provide a 100% guarantee doesn't mean that there aren't things they can do, and doesn't mean that users shouldn't encourage Serif to do contingency planning about this (and to tell the user base about those contingencies!).

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

The former approach with Product Keys assured that.

 What about the versions sold through the Windows or Mac app stores? There are no product keys for them.

Also, what if someone who bought from the Affinity store no longer knows what their product key was?

[R C-R]

3 minutes ago, Corgi said:

I share your cynicisms. I'm not expecting a bulletproof guarantee. But don't let "perfect" be the enemy of the "good." Just because Serif can't provide a 100% guarantee doesn't mean that there aren't things they can do, and doesn't mean that users shouldn't encourage Serif to do contingency planning about this (and to tell the user base about those contingencies!).

For what I hope are obvious reasons, i cannot think of a single company that has much interest in telling its customers & potential customers what plans it might have in the event that it goes out of business.

Can you?

[Corgi]

6 minutes ago, R C-R said:

For what I hope are obvious reasons, i cannot think of a single company that has much interest in telling its customers & potential customers what plans it might have in the event that it goes out of business.

Can you?

I can't think of a single customer that wouldn't appreciate assurances that they will continue to be able to activate their purchased software, and won't be blocked from doing so when they need activation. Can you? 😃

Look, I guess nobody really disagrees with the idea that it would be good for Serif to address this concern, it's just that there's disagreement about whether this is likely to happen. I can live with that difference of opinion.

[v_kyr]

37 minutes ago, R C-R said:

What about the versions sold through the Windows or Mac app stores? There are no product keys for them.

Overall good points!

An older (dated) article, but AFAIK most of it is still applicable for Mac App Store bought apps ...

• Mac App Store licensing and copy protection, explained

... for Windows don't know, never bought something from their store so far. But they maybe have a similar scheme here.

But let's assume hypothetical here, that a company and thus their continious software support, do disappears from the market. The question in turn then related to former from Win & Mac app store boughts of their software will be, if their software then also does immediately disappears from the Win/Mac stores too here, or if it's kept at least as an still available older download for people who once bought the apps, but apps of course can't be actually/newly bought.

[v_kyr]

48 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

The new method doesn't. We can only trust that Serif will be around for a substantial period of time, and that if they depart it will be long enough from now that we won't care. Or that they will have made some provision for users to keep using their products.

I hope they were farsighted enough to ensure the latter, because anything else would be crap!