Affinity Publisher 2 - how do multi-level numbered/bullet lists work?

[Casubon]

I am trying to create a multi-level numbered list in Affinity Publisher 2 within a paragraph style. Is this possible at the moment?

e.g

1. main text
   a. subtext with a long long line that
        carries over the next line
   b. subtext
2. main text
3. main text

When editing the Text Style, under "Bullets and Numbering" there are selectors for Type (which sets the numbering, lettering etc. to be used), Level (which presumably is used to set the format of each numbered level), Text (which sets the numbering format).

From what I can tell, the Level selector does nothing - other settings are not linked to the level, so e.g if I select Level one with a Type of "1,2,3,4..." and then change Level to 2 and change the Type to "a,b,c,d..." the whole Text style just sets to the "a,b,c,d..." paragraph numbering.

At the moment, it looks as if the only way to set multi-level numbering is using the "Bullets and Numbering" section under the Paragraph panel and manually configure insets etc. using the text ruler (and then set up as a new Text Style if I want to use the same settings). This is frustrating for a longer document and should be configurable under the text style.

Am I missing something here? 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Casubon
additional info

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Casubon said:

Is this possible at the moment?

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums.

Yes, that can be done.

1 hour ago, Casubon said:

From what I can tell, the Level selector does nothing - other settings are not linked to the level, so e.g if I select Level one with a Type of "1,2,3,4..." and then change Level to 2 and change the Type to "a,b,c,d..." the whole Text style just sets to the "a,b,c,d..." paragraph numbering.

It works, but you're not using it correctly. You should have a separate text style for your level 2 text if it needs a separate type of label (bullet, number, text).

[Catshill]

The lightbulb moment for me when using multi level bullets was realising each level was a different style.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Catshill said:

The lightbulb moment for me when using multi level bullets was realising each level was a different style.

If they need different labeling, yes. If they can use the same label style then they can be a single style, and you can simply press Tab at the beginning of a line to indent to a new level, or Shift+Tab to outdent to the previous level.

[Catshill]

7 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

If they need different labeling, yes. If they can use the same label style then they can be a single style, and you can simply press Tab at the beginning of a line to indent to a new level, or Shift+Tab to outdent to the previous level.

The default bullet styles use separate styles for each label and I replicated that. I was unable to alter indents independently. Changing level 1 affected level 2 etc and visa versa. If you have an example of multi level bullets using a single style, can you upload it as I would like to see it?

[walt.farrell]

4 hours ago, Catshill said:

The default bullet styles use separate styles for each label and I replicated that. I was unable to alter indents independently. Changing level 1 affected level 2 etc and visa versa. If you have an example of multi level bullets using a single style, can you upload it as I would like to see it?

I'll see if I can recreate what I was thinking of.

[elbradamontes]

The way numbered lists are handled is absolutely awful. I can not see why serif doesn't use the same exact system as every word processing program in existence. 

Hit enter: new item on that level.

Hit tab: move up one level

Hit delete: move down a level. 

 

None of that works. 

[elbradamontes]

Well damn. Found it. Text styles not paragraph styles. 

[walt.farrell]

1 minute ago, elbradamontes said:

Well damn. Found it. Text styles not paragraph styles. 

Sorry; I don't understand that. Text Styles are either Paragraph Text Styles or Character Text Styles, but for Bullets/Numbering the primary ones you use are Paragraph Text Styles. 

[elbradamontes]

Well if you don't understand that then I'd say it's still busted. I can only get text style lists to work. Not paragraph styles. Anyway, it took me 45 minutes of messing around to get it to work. The only way I got it to work is by selecting bulleted lists under text styles and then manipulating each level style to do what I want. I tried manipulating paragraph style levels and it would not do what I want. It constantly reverted to the wrong style or just wouldn't behave. None of the level style changes I made worked as expected or stayed consistent. 

[elbradamontes]

For instance. I want Arabic numerals on level one, Capital Letters on level two, and lowercase letters on level three. This doesn't work. I can not make any changes to the levels. The entire paragraph uses the same style no matter the level. The only way to get the spacing and appearance right is to use text styles. 

[walt.farrell]

24 minutes ago, elbradamontes said:

I can only get text style lists to work. Not paragraph styles.

Again: There are two kinds of Text Styles: Paragraph Text Styles, and Character Text Styles.

There are no "paragraph styles". I think you're saying that you can only get Character Text Styles to work.

21 minutes ago, elbradamontes said:

For instance. I want Arabic numerals on level one, Capital Letters on level two, and lowercase letters on level three. This doesn't work. I can not make any changes to the levels. The entire paragraph uses the same style no matter the level. The only way to get the spacing and appearance right is to use text styles. 

Thanks. I think that explains your problem.

Each entry in a bulleted or numbered list is a separate paragraph. It sounds like you are trying to keep them within a single paragraph by using soft returns (Line Breaks), rather than simply using separate paragaphs with Paragraph Breaks (Enter/Return) between them. You type the text for an entry, and hit Enter. You then type the text for the next entry, and hit Enter. If you need a new level, you press Tab after the Enter.

Here's a sample document for you (created with Publisher 2; let me know if you need it from V1): Multi-level-list-V2.afpub

[Catshill]

On 1/9/2023 at 12:08 PM, walt.farrell said:

I'll see if I can recreate what I was thinking of.

The example you sent above has a separate paragraph style defined for each level which is what I referred to earlier.

The other key point is to define the Next level defined so that when you enter TAB (like MS Word) it automatically creates an indented bullet/number

 

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Catshill said:

The example you sent above has a separate paragraph style defined for each level which is what I referred to earlier.

But you were referring to "text styles" as opposed to "paragraph styles", for one confusion. And then to "the entire paragraph gets the style".

You need to use Paragraph Text Styles. And yes, the text style applies to complete paragraphs, as each entry in the list is supposed to be a paragraph.

Thanks for pointing out Next Level; I forgot to mention that.

[Catshill]

9 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

But you were referring to "text styles" as opposed to "paragraph styles", for one confusion. And then to "the entire paragraph gets the style".

You need to use Paragraph Text Styles. And yes, the text style applies to complete paragraphs, as each entry in the list is supposed to be a paragraph.

Thanks for pointing out Next Level; I forgot to mention that.

In terms of referring to text styles, that was not me!

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Catshill said:

In terms of referring to text styles, that was not me!

Sorry. Confused, apparently.

 

[Catshill]

7 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Sorry. Confused, apparently.

 

You are thinking of Elbradamontes

[Gazook89]

I suspect that all of the above is not possible in Designer.  I don't see anything in the Paragraph Styles editor that would indicate this isn't possible, but it doesn't seem to work.  On MacOS, with v2.  I'd love for someone to confirm, because I've spent about an hour trying to get the above to work by matching all of the settings in Walt's Publisher example.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Gazook89 said:

I suspect that all of the above is not possible in Designer.  I don't see anything in the Paragraph Styles editor that would indicate this isn't possible, but it doesn't seem to work.  On MacOS, with v2.  I'd love for someone to confirm, because I've spent about an hour trying to get the above to work by matching all of the settings in Walt's Publisher example.

You can open the .afpub file I provided above, and it should work in Designer 2, too.

Edit: I haven't looked to make sure all of the UI elements to create that are present in Designer, but from memory I don't think anything is missing.

[Gazook89]

Quote

You can open the .afpub file I provided above, and it should work in Designer 2, too.

When opened in Publisher 2, on MacOS (m2), this works fine, even if the overall process I still think could be improved.  But I have no issue tabbing/shift + tabbing to change the indent level. 

When I take the same document (reopening without saving any of the changes) and open it directly into Designer 2, the same tabbing/shift + tabbing doesn't work.  It only creates another list item of the same 'level', and any tabbing just adds a tab at the start of the item value (after the bullet/number, before the text). 

I see you have an M1 ipad, I'm not sure that the same problem would appear on iOS but might be worth a check.

 

it does feel like I had it briefly working in Designer after a lot of screwing around, before trying to add a third bullet level, but I honestly can't remember if it was in Designer or Publisher...I went to dinner and put the kid in bed in the intervening time.

 

EDIT:  I also just created a new blank document in Publisher, which has a default set of Text Styles (which I guess are pretty much the same as in your document) and got the same behavior i described above.  Works in Publisher, then moving it into Designer breaks it.  I'm going to see if I can get someone in the Discord server to replicate with a Mac.

 

ONE MORE EDIT:  When I recreated all the styles/rules again, entirely in Designer 2, it wouldn't work in Designer when I was testing it.  But I persevered, and moved to editing the document in Publisher 2.   In Pub, the Text Styles all worked perfectly, with tabbing to the next levels working just as expected.  Switch back to Des, and again no longer working.  So I'm just pretty confident it's a bug.

[Oufti]

17 hours ago, Gazook89 said:

into Designer 2, the same tabbing/shift + tabbing doesn't work.  It only creates another list item of the same 'level', and any tabbing just adds a tab at the start of the item value (after the bullet/number, before the text). 

In Publisher's Settings > Auto-correct, you can choose "Utiliser la touche de tabulation pour modifier le niveau du paragraphe, et non pour insérer une tabulation (Use the tab key to change the level of the paragraph, not to insert a tab)". 

But I can't find this option in Designer (both in v.2.1.1 on Mac Monterey). 

I don't know wether this property is inherited or reset when opening a APub document in ADesigner?

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Oufti said:

In Publisher's Settings > Auto-correct, you can choose "Utiliser la touche de tabulation pour modifier le niveau du paragraphe, et non pour insérer une tabulation (Use the tab key to change the level of the paragraph, not to insert a tab)". 

Good detective work!

Yes, Auto-Correct is not present in Designer, so that won't happen automatically.

Publisher also has, in the Text menu, Text > List > Increase|Decrease Level:

That's another function missing from Designer.

@Gazook89: Therefore, it seems that in Designer you do not have the ability to automatically or manually increase/decrease the level using Tab or the Text menu. You can do it manually, though.

In my test file, for example, where I have this:

to switch from 3 to 3.1 in Designer, I would go up to the Context Toolbar, and manually select the Numbered 2 Text Style in the paragraph box when I want to be at level 2.

 

[GuyMiklos]

Thank you Walt for your document with demonstrations of multilevelled and mixed list types. It was very helpful to open this and look at the settings and play around with them.