Noise filter not completely mask to a group ("Preserve Alpha" missing)

[KarlLegion]

A group masked with noise filter will have the effect partly passed through the layers underneath. (Also rendering problem on the canvas)

Edited January 6, 2023 by KarlLegion
Changing title

[NotMyFault]

The group is in passthrough blend mode. This is a recipe for trouble when combined with filters.

there are many more open bug reports affecting groups in passthrough mode, filters, and alpha channel handling 

[KarlLegion]

I knew I can set the blend mode to "normal" for the workaround. But since it's default for every new Groups having "Passthrough" as the blend mode and it shouldn't have worked this way. So, it's a bug.

Do you suggest that it's a bug or not? Or did anyone report similar bugs before and logged?

[NotMyFault]

My post about setting blend mode to normal is intended for others who experience the same issue, find this thread via search, and provide ways to avoid the issue.

According to the specification in help, it works as designed, so no bug in general. As you did not upload the actual file (screenshots only), i cannot check if there is a potential additional bug 

https://affinity.help/photo2/en-US.lproj/pages/Layers/layerBlendModes.html

For a layer group, the default blend mode is 'Passthrough' (i.e. the group itself has no special blend properties of its own). This blend mode affects grouped layers in the following ways:

• If you have a filter in the group, the Passthrough blend mode will cause the filter to affect all other page content below it. If the group blend mode is changed to Normal, the filter's effect is restricted.
• For just an adjustment(s) in a group, Passthrough and any other blend mode will restrict the adjustment to just the group.
• If you have an adjustment above a fill layer in a group, the fill layer causes the adjustment to affect all other page content below it when blend mode is Passthrough.

[KarlLegion]

Ha, then that's interesting. If the noise filter had no bugs, then it means every other live filters have bugs. You can try it with any other filters, none of them passes through the effect, only the Noise does (kind of, see below). Even if it's intended to pass through, the passthrough effect shouldn't have been partly effective. Look at my screenshots, it's not full strength on objects outside the group.

My description is as simple as one line. My screenshots highlighted the group with bounding box. You can simply recreate it by yourself. You don't need my file. Why don't you try it by yourself before making any comments? I did test before submitting the bug report. I knew the behavior is not consistent among different live filters. IDK if the help doc means what it says, or is just a misleading. I knew there is a bug one way or the other.

Even you said

Quote

This is a recipe for trouble when combined with filters.

Still you didn't agree it is a bug? I'm confused🤔 If one design always cause trouble to users, then it should be counted as a bug, right? (Still IDK what trouble you're talking) Sorry, I really don't get what you're suggesting from your first reply. Maybe you're trying to provide a workaround, but it's not quite supportive😕I just want the bug get logged unless it's already done before by other users.

Anyway, look at this one. Actually the Noise doesn't pass through but extends to the alpha (so I think the problem is the missing of "Preserve Alpha") (It also proves that it doesn't work as you thought, somehow doesn't match the help doc😕)

live filter bug.afphoto

Also the rendering on the canvas doesn't match the output (unchecking OpenCL doesn't help)

[Old Bruce]

Until this Alpha Noise bug is fixed I would suggest Nesting the Filters in the different layers and Linking the Filters together instead of grouping the layers. Quite handy.

[NotMyFault]

1 hour ago, KarlLegion said:

Why don't you try it by yourself before making any comments?

Respect, please. I did several test on my own, and looked up the help which you didn’t. Why do you alway verbally attack those who try to help?
 

the title of your posts mentions one specific assumed bug, which isn’t a bug according to specification. I explicitly mentioned other bugs are possible and already known. But these are different things from what you raised as primary bug (which isn’t one).
 

Screenshots alone are not enough to analyze bugs - it totally depends on other factors like so, gpu, driver etc if bugs are reproducible or not.

So welcome back again on my ignore list.

[KarlLegion]

@NotMyFault First, my sincere apology for making you feel offended. I didn't attack you and didn't mean to. "Why don't you try it by yourself before making any comments?" How can it be an attack? I just defended. Defended you from sabotaging my post. Sabotaging by first off giving a vague and confusing respond. (You used "trouble" and "bug report", it sounded like you agreed that's a bug. Confusingly, your tone suggested me don't bother to report it. Seemed unsupportive.) Secondly, you gave out an information supposed to be right but came out to be wrong. It showed that, squarely, you didn't do a test.(So, I was just saying the fact. Please be humble.) You're just like an amateur giving wrong medicine to a patient. It did more harm than help. You just tried to close my case and suggested other readers to overlook the core issue, twice in a row. I don't want to say anything mean. I just kind of get annoyed and run out of patience with you. If you really want to help, please don't give "false information" to confuse people. When I say "false information", I mean

10 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

If you have a filter in the group, the Passthrough blend mode will cause the filter to affect all other page content below it. If the group blend mode is changed to Normal, the filter's effect is restricted.

I know it's not your intention to give "false information". (It's not necessarily to be "false", maybe just a misunderstanding waiting Affinity to explain) But you're still responsible, because you didn't do what you should have done: TESTING. Even the Help is official, it still needs to be tested. It's basic, if everything works as intended, then no bugs should be concerned. Ironically, you're here. So you know bugs can be anywhere. But still, you didn't do a test. Intentional or not, you're sabotaging my post. So, I stop you.

6 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

the title of your posts mentions one specific assumed bug, which isn’t a bug according to specification.

"specification"? Hopefully everything works as intended. Please be practical, don't just say "it supposed to work". Instead, tell me "I tried, it works." or "I tried, but I can't recreate the problem." Sometimes when I encounter something doesn't work as intended, I look up the Help, but not always, like this time I didn't. Because I'm practical, I can tell the obvious behavioral difference between Noise and other filters. There is probably a bug among live filters, one or another. But you, looked up the Help because you didn't do a test. Should you have tested it by yourself, you didn't need to check the Help. Did you realized I explicitly mentioned "Noise filter" instead of "Live filters" in the title? If you had thought more carefully and been more sensitive, you would have an idea about testing out if the Noise is different from other filters.

Wait! "which isn’t a bug"? Did you just changed your stance? Or... I'm confused.🤔I remember you said,

On 1/2/2023 at 5:34 PM, NotMyFault said:

This is a recipe for trouble

So, it's a "trouble" but not a "bug"? Is it a puzzle? It's so vague I can't understand...

6 hours ago, NotMyFault said:

I explicitly mentioned other bugs are possible and already known.

You didn't mention other bugs. Or maybe you meant this one

Quote

there are many more open bug reports affecting groups in passthrough mode, filters, and alpha channel handling 

So... How is it helpful for anything? I got nothing... It's neither a workaround nor an explanation for any bugs. What did you suppose to say?

Quote

Screenshots alone are not enough to analyze bugs - it totally depends on other factors like so, gpu, driver etc if bugs are reproducible or not.

People are not stupid. They can see how simple the setup is. If you can't recreate the bug from my screenshot, than I doubt what you capable of. "other factors like so, gpu, driver etc"? Come on! Please don't say something obvious. It won't make your excuse more valid, instead it just makes me feel sorry for you. If you are wrong, be humble and apologize. At least you earn some respect. It's obvious, if you couldn't recreate the problem, for saving your pride, you would have mentioned it in the first place, loud and clear, "It's not a bug! I told you!" So obviously you can recreate the problem. You knew the specs doesn't matter. You know I know you mentioning those spec things is just an attempt to save you own face. Please be generous. I feel sorry for you.

Again, I didn't attack you. I'm just defending from your sabotaging. You feel hurt because I'm solid and I reflected the truth. You know that you're wrong so you feel hurt. You're hitting a solid wall so you hurt yourself.

You shouldn't have accused me for attacking you because of your low self esteem. Respect is not free. You earn it. Anyway, you received my apology. BTW, glad to know that I'm in your ignore list. So, you don't sabotage my posts again.

[TrentL]

I also ran into this issue today. Regardless of whatever Normal vs Passthrough is supposed to do, it seems the Noise filter behaves inconsistently from all the other filters when put into a group.

Below you can see that Noise is affecting the orange circle and also the blue background + yellow diamond outside of the group. However, Diffuse is just changing the orange circle in the group.

[NathanC]

Hey @TrentL,

This differing behaviour observed with the 'Add Noise' live filter is likely related to the 'Add Noise filter breaking the Alpha/Alpha blending when nested into group' issue that's logged with the developers so i've updated the existing issue and bumped it with your report. 🙂