Designer v2

[Washishu]

I don’t want to sound like an Illustrator complainer, I really don’t. I made the decision to leave AI behind and embrace AffDes and I’m content with that—there’s no going back. There are a few features that I still feel I prefer the AI way, but there are many features that I much prefer in AffDes.

However—yes there is a however—after working through the unfamiliar interface period, there are still some aspects that I find very puzzling. Getting to grips with a new interface and software is largely about trying to tune in to the logic that underlies it. Here’s where I have difficulty with the Layers palette. I just cannot figure the logic behind it and therefore, when I want to perform some action that I’ve not done before, it’s sometimes a matter of many minutes of trial and error, rather than a logical thought process—if I do this, then I’ll be able to… This stalls my learning process very considerably; I might get the result I want but I’m not sure what I did to get it.

The concept of Layers it seems logical to me, is as layers, i.e. they are akin to veneers or skins successively laid one on the other. A group is not a layer; a group exists on a layer. So why, when I group all objects on (for example) layer 3, does it become a group and the layer (3) disappears? It doesn’t make sense.

I can’t create a new layer and then move an existing object onto that layer. It seems that I must first either create some temporary object on the new layer, move the desired object onto the layer, then delete the temporary object. Or I must cut/paste the object onto the new layer. I can’t just move the object from Layer 1 onto Layer 2 if Layer 2 is currently empty.

I can’t change the fill/stroke properties of a group (or all objects on a layer) by selecting the group (or layer). I have to select each individual object within the group. This is very time-consuming when I want to add a new stroke to all objects within the group (or layer), as I did recently.

There is no indication in the Layers palette of what is currently selected. I click a layer; all objects on that layer are selected. I want to shift-deselect certain objects; there is no indication that I’ve deselected the right ones.

Clicking on a layer—to make it the active layer—should not select everything on the layer. Because you can’t shift-deselect objects from this selection—or, more accurately it some circumstances you can’t but in others it seems you can. I have yet to establish what those circumstances might be.

It’s possible to delete locked objects—makes no sense; it’s not locked if I can delete it.

Can’t add a new stroke to a type object—or the group after converting to curves

Deleting an object does not mean that I want to select the object below, or the object I previously created, I’m not sure which. All it means is that I want to delete that object.

So before I buy the new Designer, I’d like to know if some of these peculiarities have been attended to and possibly revised. I’m far less concerned about new features; the current version satisfies most of my needs—although I would welcome the introduction of something that performs the same function as the Blend tool.

And I repeat, I don’t want to sound like an Illustrator complainer. I just want to understand.

 

 

 

 

[Pšenda]

I find your description quite confusing. To make it clear what you are trying to achieve or what you are doing wrong, it would be good to add screenshots and ideally videos.

The only clear point is the ability to delete a "locked" layer - you're not the only one:

 

 

[loukash]

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

Getting to grips with a new interface and software is largely about trying to tune in to the logic that underlies it.

Oh, tell me about that. After Adobe took Freehand from me, I never got used to Illustrator, even though I've been occasionally using it since v3 in the 1990s. Illustrator's "logic" never made sense to me.

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

A group is not a layer; a group exists on a layer.

The Affinity concept is that every object is a layer. And thus vice versa, every "Layer" type of object is, well, an object.
The obvious evidence for this concept is that you don't need to have any "Layer" objects at all. In that sense, everything is a "layer". 
Specifically, the "Layer" object is primarily used as a container without own vector attributes, i.e. it has no size or no fill. 

The slightly confusing thing here is that they have chosen to name the corresponding panel "Layers".
Probably because naming it e.g. "Object Hierarchy Panel" would be too long, I don't know… 

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

when I want to perform some action that I’ve not done before, it’s sometimes a matter of many minutes of trial and error, rather than a logical thought process

As with every indoctrination and brainwashing, it takes a lot of time to escape it. After decades with Adobe, Macromedia, Quark and back to Aldus, it took me six years from buying the first version of Designer in 2014 until I was ready to make the switch. It's a switch of mindset. Many things can be done differently than what we've been told for so long.  

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

So why, when I group all objects on (for example) layer 3, does it become a group and the layer (3) disappears?

If you group a blank Layer object, then the Group object will become its parent layer, and the blank Layer object is inside the group as a child object of the Group.
Basically, the object hierarchy is freely editable. Every object can be a parent or a child. With corresponding consequences, of course. Simply put, it's all just math.

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

I can’t create a new layer and then move an existing object onto that layer. It seems that I must first either create some temporary object on the new layer, move the desired object onto the layer, then delete the temporary object. Or I must cut/paste the object onto the new layer. I can’t just move the object from Layer 1 onto Layer 2 if Layer 2 is currently empty.

Huh?

Frankly, there were/are a few bugs with moving objects in and out of layers or other objects.
You need to be more specific and post e.g. a screencast of what you're doing, or an example document.

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

I can’t change the fill/stroke properties of a group (or all objects on a layer) by selecting the group (or layer).

Huh? (again)
Of course you can.

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

I have to select each individual object within the group.

Even then, you don't have to do that either. Simply disable the Edit All Layers button, select one object inside the group, then Select All. The object selection will then affect only objects on that hierarchy level.

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

Clicking on a layer—to make it the active layer—should not select everything on the layer.

This is by design: Selecting an object in the Layers panel selects it – or its children, depending on type of object – on the canvas/page/artboard.

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

It’s possible to delete locked objects—makes no sense; it’s not locked if I can delete it.

That's "by design" according to Serif.
Likely the majority of forum users also disagree with this concept.
I, for one, am impartial. I got used to it – aka indoctrinated, haha – and can deal with it by now.
I like that I still can select locked objects.
I don't like that I can't optionally lock them to be completely non-editable.

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

Can’t add a new stroke to a type object—or the group after converting to curves

Huh? (again)

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

Deleting an object does not mean that I want to select the object below, or the object I previously created, I’m not sure which.

Turn off Preferences > General > Prefer To Keep Selection After Delete

2 hours ago, Washishu said:

So before I buy the new Designer, I’d like to […]

… download the trial affinity.serif.com/designer (scroll to the bottom)
… and watch the tutorials affinity.serif.com/learn/designer

[Old Bruce]

3 hours ago, Washishu said:

I can’t create a new layer and then move an existing object onto that layer. It seems that I must first either create some temporary object on the new layer, move the desired object onto the layer, then delete the temporary object. Or I must cut/paste the object onto the new layer. I can’t just move the object from Layer 1 onto Layer 2 if Layer 2 is currently empty.

When you say "create a new layer" I am assuming you mean a new Layer made by using the menu Layer > New Layer or the cryptic icon in the bottom of the Layers panel.

I have no difficulty moving existing items into a newly made layer. I use the Layers panel and first click on the item(s) in order to select it then drag the item(s) onto the area to the right of the Layer's icon.

3 hours ago, Washishu said:

I can’t change the fill/stroke properties of a group (or all objects on a layer) by selecting the group (or layer). I have to select each individual object within the group....

Again I have no trouble doing this. Perhaps it is that I have the move tool selected and you have a different tool selected when trying this. Also I use either the Stoke or Appearance panel to apply and/or adjust the stroke and the Colour panel to adjust the colour of the stroke and fill.

3 hours ago, Washishu said:

It’s possible to delete locked objects—makes no sense; it’s not locked if I can delete it.

For me and many others this is a massive major failure in the Affinity Suite. Have yet to hear an explanation for why this by design choice was made.

3 hours ago, Washishu said:

There is no indication in the Layers palette of what is currently selected. I click a layer; all objects on that layer are selected. I want to shift-deselect certain objects; there is no indication that I’ve deselected the right ones.

This is speculation on my part, but I think this is a by design choice. I only use Layer layers for when I want to have things organized, otherwise I use Groups.