Missing warning: V1 and V2 files are incompatible. Stop sharing files

[mthorner]

Installing V2 old version was not replaced. Strange. Opening an old file I get a cryptic message about compatibility. Bingo. The two affinity versions are not compatible.

What does it mean for me? I have to urge all my clients and partners to upgrade to V2 or continue working on V1.

Please specify this incompatibility issue - before - teasing us with nice features and videos.

Please warn new users before the purchase of V2 or find a way to fix the compatibility issue while developing your new versions.

Several month ago, I had another issue here and an answer was: „If you don’t like our product, piss off“…. This is definitely not the nice way to solve a software issue.

 

 

 

 

 

[walt.farrell]

The Affinity apps have never provided backward compatibility. If you edited files with 1.8, they could not be opened with 1.7. If you edited/saved with 1.9, they could not be opened with 1.8. Etc. The same applies with Saving a native file format in V2. You won't be able to open it in V1.

And, presumably, whenever Serif chooses to release 2.1, you won't be able to open its native files in 2.0.

And yes, this means that you need to know who will be "consuming" a file that you create. If you're working with customers who have Affinity V1, you need to use V1 or you need to convince them to upgrade to V2.

I have not looked to see if there's a warning about this in the Affinity Store (or the other Stores). It is at least nice, though, that they now provide that warning in 2.0.3. It was not initially provided, and really surprised some users when they Saved with V2 and couldn't open again in V1. Now they're warned.

[imagodespira]

I also don´t understand why it is not possible to open V1 files. Especially if you look into the PSD loader. It works and gives a dialog that some functions are no supported. I think this should be the compromise. Open V1 files and if they use critical functions show us a dialog that may gives us some problems. It seems some devs put work into PSD loader but don´t bother own file formats. I think the gap should be smaller from V1 to V2 than from Photoshop to V2.

[GarryP]

10 minutes ago, imagodespira said:

I also don´t understand why it is not possible to open V1 files.

The V2 applications can open V1 documents, but the V1 applications cannot open V2 documents.

The Affinity applications have never been able to open documents which have been saved by later versions but they have always been able to open documents saved by earlier versions.

(Opening a V1 document in a V2 application and then saving it converts the document into a V2 document, which cannot be opened in a V1 application.)

[John Rostron]

I think that @mthorneris saying the same thing as @imagodespira : some V1 files cannot be opened in V2. @walt.farrell's reply addresses he problem that V2 files cannot be opened in V1.

John

[GarryP]

As I read it, imagodespira said that they didn’t know why V1 files couldn’t be opened (I’m assuming in V2), which is a different thing, as far as I can see, to what mthorner said which was about opening V2 documents in the V1 applications.

My reply was to the assertion “it is not possible to open V1 files” which, if I read it correctly, was false (except for certain bugs/issues which aren’t part of expected working).

There may be two different issues at work here which could be causing some confusion.

[Pšenda]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:21 PM, mthorner said:

Please warn new users before the purchase of V2

The warning has been there since V2 was released:

[GarryP]

9 minutes ago, iuli said:

In my opinion especially Affinity v1 could use some sort of clear in-app message that the software cannot, and will not, open v2 files.

Doesn’t it already have that?

[Corgi]

To the people pointing out that there was no backward compatibility even in v1:

This is correct. However, the big difference is that you could always update to the latest version of v1 without paying. So if you sent a v1 document to another person with Affinity, and they had an older version of v1, you weren't forcing them to spend any money -- all they needed to do was update.

I wish Serif would supply a v1 export facility for v2; although this takes time and effort, not providing this feature feels a little bit passive aggressive on their part. 🙂

[GarryP]

44 minutes ago, Corgi said:

However, the big difference is that you could always update to the latest version of v1 without paying.

If I remember correctly, some people couldn’t update to later versions of the V1 applications because the minimum requirements of the software changed (.NET versions, OS versions, etc.).
Because of this, if it’s true, the situation will have already existed where people who have a later version of the V1 applications couldn’t share documents with everyone who has a V1 version of the application(s).

44 minutes ago, Corgi said:

I wish Serif would supply a v1 export facility for v2;

How could Serif provide an “export facility” from V2 to V1?

Except for shared functionalities that haven’t ‘changed’, all of the layers which are in any way affected by any of the new or changed functionalities would have to be exported as being rasterised in order for the layer to ‘come over’ in a way that they could be opened in V1, and that’s probably not much better than exporting/importing as PDF.

PDFs are openable and editable by both versions of the software, so there’s a quick V2 → V1 ‘downgrade path’.

[Corgi]

22 minutes ago, GarryP said:

If I remember correctly, some people couldn’t update to later versions of the V1 applications because the minimum requirements of the software changed (.NET versions, OS versions, etc.).
Because of this, if it’s true, the situation will have already existed where people who have a later version of the V1 applications couldn’t share documents with everyone who has a V1 version of the application(s).

I wasn't aware of this. Even if it's true, the general case for most customers is that updating to the most recent version of v1 is not a big deal.

23 minutes ago, GarryP said:

How could Serif provide an “export facility” from V2 to V1?

I meant, they should provide the export facility in the same manner as they already export for psd and (as you pointed out) pdf: they support the features that are available in the exported format, and for the features that cannot be faithfully translated, they implement a workaround.

It's odd when a company supports exporting to standard formats (pdf, svg ...) and the proprietary formats of competitors (psd), but not to their own established formats (af v1).

They already have the code to do it, although in a very very non-optimal way. For example, with afphoto, they already have the code to export v2=>psd, plus the code to import from psd=>v1.

[GarryP]

17 minutes ago, Corgi said:

and for the features that cannot be faithfully translated, they implement a workaround.

The “workaround” would probably be to rasterise layers as that’s probably the easiest way to do it as that functionality already exists.
However, if Serif were to do this then they would probably get just as many complaints that layers were getting rasterised.

They’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t.

[Corgi]

11 minutes ago, GarryP said:

The “workaround” would probably be to rasterise layers as that’s probably the easiest way to do it as that functionality already exists.
However, if Serif were to do this then they would probably get just as many complaints that layers were getting rasterised.

They’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t.

The difference (IMO) is that it's perfectly fair to damn them for not offering some sort of v1 export, but it would be unfair to damn them for not inserting every v2 feature into v1 (because then v1 becomes v2!).

[Pšenda]

And how many customers does this really affect? If someone works for himself and for some reason does not want to upgrade applications (for example, because the applications are too expensive even after the discount, or the new added features are not worth the price, or he uses and does not want to upgrade his outdated OS), then he does not mind backward compatibility at all. And if someone works professionally - in a larger team, or shares files with customers, then I assume that the above arguments (too high an upgrade price, or using an outdated OS) are minor issues. In these cases, the proposed solutions to get data from V2 to V1 (export/import to PDF, copy/paste) are a usable alternative. It is very unrealistic to expect that Serif will create a specific converter for these few cases, which will be constantly developed, supplemented and tested with each update of the V2 version.

[walt.farrell]

53 minutes ago, Corgi said:

They already have the code to do it, although in a very very non-optimal way. For example, with afphoto, they already have the code to export v2=>psd, plus the code to import from psd=>v1.

And that should work for both Designer and Photo, for V2 -> V1, assuming you don't mind losing editable text.

[Komatös]

The program code in V2 has changed in many places, so Serif would have to "drag along" old functions from V1 in the new version.

Best example LiveLiquify or Live Mesh, that does not exist in V1. And V1 users would lose a lot of customization options.

[Corgi]

33 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

And how many customers does this really affect? ...

I don't know. It would have been especially handy to have at first release of v2, when every Serif customer was still on v1, and when some customers were (and still are) unable to upgrade to v2 because of device limitations, or restrictions from their IT department. And, when I'm sure many customers are holding off on v2 because it seems to have too many bugs for production use. Yes, there are workarounds (which are less clean and faithful), but it still seems like it would be a useful feature, although I would agree that it becomes less important over time as the v1 installed base diminishes.

14 minutes ago, Komatös said:

The program code in V2 has changed in many places, so Serif would have to "drag along" old functions from V1 in the new version.

Best example LiveLiquify or Live Mesh, that does not exist in V1. And V1 users would lose a lot of customization options.

Not sure what you mean by that. The intention is not to add features to v1. But if I have a v2 file that uses only a subset of the v1 feature set, it would be nice to be able to export the file faithfully to v1 (if not open it natively).

Look, I'm not saying that this is a vitally important feature for Serif to implement, or that it should take priority over bug fixes. I'm just saying that it would have been a thoughtful addition that would help people. I can understand why most forum members (who tend to be early adopters) would prefer v2 bug fixes and new features over v1 export, but it's harder to understand why people seem to be so actively opposed to it.

Back in the day, I was livid at both Adobe and Corel for doing such a poor job with interoperability of different versions of their products. I was hoping for something better from Serif.

[B064RT]

why V2 not provide "save as v1" just like CorelDraw, which provide "save as" even for 5 version before

it will be praised... 

[imagodespira]

Arghhhh: Sorry for my post. I mean that V1 does not load V2 Files  Sorry! 

In my opinion V1 Should get a small update to load at least the file and ignore the new functions. Better, as suggested above from others: Export V1 files in V2 with reduces features.

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, imagodespira said:

In my opinion V1 Should get a small update to load at least the file and ignore the new functions. Better, as suggested above from others: Export V1 files in V2 with reduces features.

How would that work in practice?

Say I have V2 and you have V1.

Then say I have a V2 document which only contains a Rectangle layer within a Warp Group (doesn’t matter which one).
Then I export it as a V1 document and send it to you (or you open the document and the V1 software ignores the new/changed functionalities).

What will you see when you open the document?
You won’t be able to see the warping so you will not see the document as I intended it to be seen. Would I have to then describe to you what the document should look like, and/or also send you an image of it?

If you then add a Circle inside the Rectangle, save the document and send it back to me, what will I see?
You won’t be able to save the document with the Warp Group intact because the V1 software has no concept of a Warp Group so the Warp Group that I added would be missing so I’m not getting back what I send to you and would then have to re-create what’s missing in the document, taking care of handling the new circle as you intended (somehow), before moving on.

Even in such a simple example as this, the document being passed around would be practically useless because the V1 software cannot handle any new/changed V2 functionalities. The more V2 functionalities that are used, the less the ‘exported to V1’ document will look like it should and therefore the less useful it will be.

It just won’t work.

[Pšenda]

23 minutes ago, GarryP said:

It just won’t work.

And as I asked before, who would actually need the "SaveAs V1" function? Anyone with only the V1 version? Why, how would he get this feature available in V2? Anyone with both V1 and V2 like me? Why? I haven't even opened the V1 version since switching to V2. Anyone using both V1 and V2 depending on what client they work with? Why? Why would someone working with a V1 client do something in V2, only to have to deal with backporting to a less functional V1?

Sure there will be some cases and situations where it could be useful, but it reminds me a bit of the legacy Plus app and Affinity incompatibility situation. There has been a lot of demand here for Affinity to be able to read the legacy plus format so that users can easily transfer their work - but that's what V2 does because it can read V1 format. But has anyone here requested that Affinity save to the legacy plus app format?

[loukash]

Just the other day I noticed that some of the new v2 features are more compatible with v1 than expected:
I copied a few objects that had a layer effect with two inner shadows from a v2 to a v1 document, and the effect persisted! You just can't edit both shadows in v1.
Similarly, a Warp Group is simply being flattened on copy and paste from v2 to v1.

[Corgi]

4 hours ago, Pšenda said:

And as I asked before, who would actually need the "SaveAs V1" function? Anyone with only the V1 version?

And as I answered before, anyone who still has v1 and needs/wants to exchange live Affinity files with someone who has v2. Off the top of my head, here's a list of reasons that someone might still have v1:

• Someone who doesn't trust v2 yet (and perhaps not for quite awhile) because of the reported bugginess
• Someone who can't install it because their hardware platform doesn't meet the new v2 requirements
• Someone who can't install it because there is no MSI installer yet
• Someone who can't afford v2.

So that could be plenty of v1 users still out there. That leaves the question of why someone with v2 might want to send a file to a v1 user. There are countless possible reasons -- the same sorts of reasons why you might want to export to psd.

I myself am still on v1* because of the first and third reasons above, and I already encountered a situation in which the lack of v1 export was an impediment. There was someone on one of these forums with a problem that I wanted to help with, and I was going to ask him/her to send me their file so I could try to help, but I could see that he/she was using v2, so I didn't even bother trying.

* I temporarily put v2 on a very old machine to run some experiments, but I subsequently removed it.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Corgi

[B064RT]

9 hours ago, Corgi said:

And as I answered before, anyone who still has v1 and needs/wants to exchange live Affinity files with someone who has v2. Off the top of my head, here's a list of reasons that someone might still have v1:

• Someone who doesn't trust v2 yet (and perhaps not for quite awhile) because of the reported bugginess
• Someone who can't install it because their hardware platform doesn't meet the new v2 requirements
• Someone who can't install it because there is no MSI installer yet
• Someone who can't afford v2.

So that could be plenty of v1 users still out there. That leaves the question of why someone with v2 might want to send a file to a v1 user. There are countless possible reasons -- the same sorts of reasons why you might want to export to psd.

I myself am still on v1* because of the first and third reasons above, and I already encountered a situation in which the lack of v1 export was an impediment. There was someone on one of these forums with a problem that I wanted to help with, and I was going to ask him/her to send me their file so I could try to help, but I could see that he/she was using v2, so I didn't even bother trying.

* I temporarily put v2 on a very old machine to run some experiments, but I subsequently removed it.

nice points!

maybe my bad.. i use V2 on windows as my desktop pc.. and V1 on 2010 macbook pro (mac os 10.13) for mobile due to V2 req Mac Os 10.15 n up and again my bad .. i dont have a plan to upgrade the macbook... so tell me how can i cross over the work from PC to my mac.. 

if V2 provide "save as v1" without any effect.. mesh or what ever that not supported on v1, it should be a life saver.. 

[Corgi]

35 minutes ago, B064RT said:

maybe my bad.. i use V2 on windows as my desktop pc.. and V1 on 2010 macbook pro (mac os 10.13) for mobile due to V2 req Mac Os 10.15 n up and again my bad .. i dont have a plan to upgrade the macbook... so tell me how can i cross over the work from PC to my mac.. 

As I and others have mentioned, you could try exporting from v2=> PSD and then importing from PSD => v1. That is liable to not be as reliable or faithful a translation as if there's a direct export v2=>v1 would be, though. If you have (or are willing to install) v1 on your PC, then another option might be to copy the layers on the PC from v2 to v1 (doing New from Clipboard on v1). I haven't tried this myself, but at least one other user thought this might work for layers that don't use any v2-specific features.