Visual (UI) indicator a layer is soloed?

[lphilpot]

Am I just overlooking it, or is there nothing in the Photo UI that indicates a layer is soloed (Alt+click on Windows)? For example:

   

In one of these examples, the Background layer is soloed, in the other it's not. Can you tell the difference?

If I Alt-Click the Background thumbnail, the two adjustment layers' effects are removed from the preview. But there's nothing I can find in the UI that shows the Background is soloed. The visibility buttons, etc., are all unchanged. Depending on the subtlety of edits, that could lead to unwanted edits and possibly lost work.

Am I just missing it?

Thanks.

[Ron P.]

Not missing anything. There's no visual cue and nothing mentioned in the Help, about having some changing in the Layer stack. In fact the Help says to exit Isolation (solo) mode, to press ESC. Guess what? Doesn't work.

[lphilpot]

OK, now that you've told me the official name I found it in Help. Like you indicated, it doesn't work as advertised:

To exit isolation mode, press the esc key, click another layer (from outside the isolated content, if the content is a group), or click away from the selection in the document view.

Of the three "exit" methods only one appears to work. Why not change the layer background to another color when isolated / soloed? For example:

That would be a very obvious cue something was altered and wouldn't occupy any of the limited screen real estate on the layer panel.

[Ron P.]

I've been thinking about this, and I'm applying Serif Logic here...

In order to Isolate a Layer, you must have that Layer selected in the Layer stack. When you select a Layer there is a color change. Alt-Click to Isolate keeps the Layer (Layer Panel/Stack) selected while what we see in the Document View (canvas area) changes to show just that Layer's content. So technically speaking there is a visual cue in the Layer Stack. You can't Isolate a Layer without first selecting it, or if you go to Isolate a different Layer, when you Alt-Click on that Layer the Layer will change to your selection, thus changing the color of it.

Next I discovered that the ALT key is a toggle for Isolation. Not documented, but it works. So when you want to exit Isolation mode, just Alt-Click on it again.

[lphilpot]

Yes, the 'focused' layer will be blue, which is an important piece of information.

7 hours ago, Ron P. said:

Next I discovered that the ALT key is a toggle for Isolation. Not documented, but it works. So when you want to exit Isolation mode, just Alt-Click on it again.

It's documented: https://affinity.help/photo2/en-US.lproj/index.html?page=pages/LayerOperations/isolating.html?title=Isolating

That's handy but if the effects of the layer(s) you're toggling aren't pretty obvious it's quite possible you might forget (or misread) they're toggled off and proceed with edits to the soloed layer that shouldn't be done (i.e., to compensate for the "missing" layers). I assume closing and re-opening the document will reset layer status, but then again if you save it with a soloed layer, is that preserved? If not, that means to "reset" (if you're unsure) means closing and re-opening the document -- which potentially means choosing between losing edits and/or performing "wrong" edits.

I just can't think of a reason for not somehow indicating a given layer is soloed.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, lphilpot said:

I assume closing and re-opening the document will reset layer status, but then again if you save it with a soloed layer, is that preserved?

You do not need to close & reopen the document to exit isolation mode. There are several ways to do that. One is clicking on another layer in the Layers panel or an empty spot in it if there is one. Another is to use Deselect (or Select All) from the Select menu or its shortcut. Another is to click somewhere outside the canvas in the workspace window (assuming you are not zoomed in so far that the window is completely filled with the canvas).

Isolation mode is not saved/preserved -- it is easy enough to see this for yourself with a quick test document with 2 layers.

[lphilpot]

4 hours ago, R C-R said:

There are several ways to do that. One is clicking on another layer in the Layers panel or an empty spot in it if there is one. Another is to use Deselect (or Select All) from the Select menu or its shortcut. Another is to click somewhere outside the canvas in the workspace window (assuming you are not zoomed in so far that the window is completely filled with the canvas).

Of those methods, the only one that works for me in Photo 2 on Windows 11 is to click on another layer. None of the others cancels Isolation mode, nor does pressing Esc. That may be Serif's intent but if so it's a bug. So far the only ways I've found that work are using Alt+<thumbnail click> as a toggle and clicking another layer to cancel. Nothing else.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, lphilpot said:

So far the only ways I've found that work are using Alt+<thumbnail click> as a toggle and clicking another layer to cancel. Nothing else.

Have you tried clicking on an empty spot where there is no layer in the Layers panel? Of course for that to work the Layers panel must be tall enough & few enough layers in it for there to be an empty spot to click on.

What about clicking outside the canvas in the document window with the Move tool?

Do either of those work for you?

[lphilpot]

51 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Have you tried clicking on an empty spot where there is no layer in the Layers panel? Of course for that to work the Layers panel must be tall enough & few enough layers in it for there to be an empty spot to click on.

What about clicking outside the canvas in the document window with the Move tool?

Do either of those work for you?

I've tried both and neither works. In the grand scheme of things, soloing a layer isn't something I do all that often but I noticed the lack of indicator the other day and it seems to make little sense.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, lphilpot said:

I've tried both and neither works.

Weird. Everything I have mentioned works on my Mac & I assumed they would also work on Windows.

It would be interesting to hear from other Windows 11 users to see what does & does not work for them.

[MikeTO]

15 hours ago, Ron P. said:

In order to Isolate a Layer, you must have that Layer selected in the Layer stack.

That's the opposite of the way it works, at least on macOS. To isolate a layer you must Opt+click on an unselected layer. Opt+click on a selected layer does nothing, which is likely a bug.

Esc works fine for me for exiting isolation mode in Publisher and Designer. It doesn't work in Photo which is likely another bug.

[R C-R]

26 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

That's the opposite of the way it works, at least on macOS. To isolate a layer you must Opt+click on an unselected layer. Opt+click on a selected layer does nothing, which is likely a bug.

Huh. For me in AP 2 & AD 2 it works even if a layer is selected if the Layer is selected in the Layers panel, but not if I start with no layer selected & select one in the workspace window with the Move Tool. A weird bug, I think.

34 minutes ago, MikeTO said:

Esc works fine for me for exiting isolation mode in Publisher and Designer. It doesn't work in Photo which is likely another bug.

I did not test in APub but I see the same thing in Designer vs. Photo.

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, François R said:

No longer works at all on macOS here in 2.0.3 - but it also looks like shortcut settings have been corrupted:

Seems to be OK for me in AD v2.0.3 on my Mac:

[firstdefence]

Just trying this on my system and I get what @lphilpot means, it is not enough to see a change in the workspace, i.e. layers and adjustments are disabled, there needs to be some change to indicate you have deliberately selected isolation mode, there is no definitive indication and I guarantee people will have clicked into isolation mode accidentally and wondered what the hell is going off, especially first time users. 

By example, I know in Photoshop double clicking a layer will open that layer up in a new window with a message explaining what's happening and what to do on first solo editing, after the initial message, solo editing takes you straight to an isolated temp document without the initial message. Closing the temp window after editing asks you to save any changes then takes you back to the original document with any changes saved.

As for selection, there is a difference between clicking on the layer icon and the layer name when alt/option is held down. I have to Alt/Option Click twice from a none selected layer to get to isolation mode when clicking on the layer icon, first click to select, second to get isolation mode, however, alt/option clicking on the layer name gets to isolation mode in a single alt/option click.

As others have said ESC does not work.

[lphilpot]

9 hours ago, firstdefence said:

Just trying this on my system and I get what @lphilpot means, it is not enough to see a change in the workspace, i.e. layers and adjustments are disabled, there needs to be some change to indicate you have deliberately selected isolation mode, there is no definitive indication and I guarantee people will have clicked into isolation mode accidentally and wondered what the hell is going off, especially first time users.

Well, that's kinda my point. On my system (Windows 11) there is no change at all in the UI to indicate anything has happened. Nothing at all.

[François R]

It is a real issue is that the feature doesn't exist visually at all unless you know how to activate it or how to exit it. And as you vividly describe, you can't even tell if it is active.

I hope Serif plans to polish and enhance it a bit more - they need a solution for both iPad and desktop.

• A right-click layer/object option to enter this mode is needed (and this is how many will discover its existence)
• A discreet visual clue is needed when isolation mode is active

I hope they will just stik with the name "isolation mode" - Not even Boba Fett likes "soloing". 

[lphilpot]

Well, "soloing" has audio mixing connotations, so it makes sense to me either way. 

[firstdefence]

40 minutes ago, lphilpot said:

Well, that's kinda my point. On my system (Windows 11) there is no change at all in the UI to indicate anything has happened. Nothing at all.

It is not just a windows thing, it is simply poorly thought out design. 

[François R]

4 hours ago, lphilpot said:

Well, "soloing" has audio mixing connotations, so it makes sense to me either way. 

Indeed, but the term isolation mode is used in graphics programs like Adobe Illustrator and Vectorstyler, it's about using the graphics industry's most widely used jargon.  

[R C-R]

13 minutes ago, François R said:

it's about using the graphics industry's most widely used jargon.  

I think that is usually but not always the best choice, at least if the term is so old that it doesn't make much sense anymore. Case in point: "Magic Wand" is a silly term for a pixel selection tool. There is nothing 'magic' about it! 😀