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Linux user base keep growing !


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1 hour ago, bobwal said:

I've tried GIMP but it seems unintuitive and I just don't like the feel of it or have the inclination to learn it.

Give Krita a try, you might like, it it's less destructive than Gimp and the UI is way better if you're coming from PS/AP

up to date guide for the Affinity Suite on Linux :  codeberg.org/affinity-wine-docs

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On 5/15/2024 at 12:14 PM, Chills said:

not to 99.9% of Windows users.....

ALL Windows users go through translation layers - they just don't realize it.  In practice, the only reason it is more obvious it is happening with systems like Wine is that they need to be separately installed, or attention is otherwise drawn to them.

The Windows "subsystem" architecture is by nature a "translation layer" in which application APIs are translated to kernel APIs (or implemented directly in the subsystem layer), so the Win32 subsystem in Windows basically does the same thing Wine does - it is just translating from Win32 application APIs into the Windows kernel APIs instead of translating into POSIX-type APIs (such as the Linux ones) the way that Wine does.

 

This is different from most other platforms in that under Linux (for example) most applications talk directly to the kernel, without such a translation layer in between.  Windows users are working with translation layers for practically everything they do - they are just unaware of it.

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38 minutes ago, fde101 said:

ALL Windows users go through translation layers - they just don't realize it.

Don't realize it, don't care and more importantly don't want to know.

The vast majority of Linux users are software geeks (usually coders)* whereas the vast number of Windows users are your aunt sally, my mother, Bob the plumber, Fred the sparks,  the secretaries and admin people who simply don't care. They want the IT dept or The Man In The Computer Shop to just give them a computer they can use the same as everyone else's (and that is important)  that they can just use without thinking.   They don't want to know how it works, the same as most car drivers technical knowledge ends with where to put the fuel.  (the garage does everything else)

Wine is what you drink.   Anything else they don't care and don't want to know.

The Linux market is VERY small compared to the Apple and Windows markets. Also many of the Linux users are religious in that they will not use any paid/commercial/proprietary software. This leaves the number of Linux users who are going to buy commercial software like the Affinity suite is, commercially, non-existent.  Especially  if they are told it is for ONE distribution of Linux only. 

The other problem is with Apple and Microsoft, Serif can get 1 to 2 years advanced warning of things changeling and what the changes are.  With Linux you find out after it has been released....   

*A lot of Linux coders know a hell of a lot less then they think they do about Linux, OS and RTOS in general, never mind software engineering.

 

www.JAmedia.uk  and www.TamworthHeritage.org.uk
[Win 11  | AMD Ryzen 5950X 16 Core CPU | 128GB Ram | NVIDIA 3080TI 12GB ]
[MB ASUS ProArt B550| C Drive:; 1TB M2 980 Pro | D Drive; 2TB M2 970 EVO ]

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14 minutes ago, Chills said:

Don't realize it, don't care and more importantly don't want to know.

This also helps to characterize why so many more security issues happen on the platform.  Anyone could potentially be tricked into doing something stupid, but people who are willfully ignorant of how their computer works are easier to trick, making them more effective targets for the various forms of social engineering used for hacking and identity theft, among other issues.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for simplicity - my primary platform is macOS and I have been a Mac fan since before System 7 - but there is a limit to how far you can stretch that simplicity without compromising your ability to work effectively with the product.  I certainly don't expect everyone to learn how to count in octal or to memorize the ASCII character codes for escape and line feed, but using excuses like these will always land you in trouble.

If a user doesn't want to have at least a basic idea of how their computer works, they should not be using it.

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8 minutes ago, fde101 said:

If a user doesn't want to have at least a basic idea of how their computer works, they should not be using it.

Then 99.9% of the world should not be using computers, cars, motorbikes, microwave cookers, mobile phones, credit cards etc.
(most people have no idea how credit cards work)

This includes a vast number of coders and Linux user who think they know, but don't.
Most computer users could not (as Linus T often points out) use Linux as a desktop computer.

I am not a "fan" of any system. I am an Engineer who designs system.   

www.JAmedia.uk  and www.TamworthHeritage.org.uk
[Win 11  | AMD Ryzen 5950X 16 Core CPU | 128GB Ram | NVIDIA 3080TI 12GB ]
[MB ASUS ProArt B550| C Drive:; 1TB M2 980 Pro | D Drive; 2TB M2 970 EVO ]

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On 6/10/2024 at 12:46 PM, Chills said:

Don't realize it, don't care and more importantly don't want to know.

The vast majority of Linux users are software geeks (usually coders)* whereas the vast number of Windows users are your aunt sally, my mother, Bob the plumber, Fred the sparks,  the secretaries and admin people who simply don't care. They want the IT dept or The Man In The Computer Shop to just give them a computer they can use the same as everyone else's (and that is important)  that they can just use without thinking.   They don't want to know how it works, the same as most car drivers technical knowledge ends with where to put the fuel.  (the garage does everything else)

Wine is what you drink.   Anything else they don't care and don't want to know.

The Linux market is VERY small compared to the Apple and Windows markets. Also many of the Linux users are religious in that they will not use any paid/commercial/proprietary software. This leaves the number of Linux users who are going to buy commercial software like the Affinity suite is, commercially, non-existent.  Especially  if they are told it is for ONE distribution of Linux only. 

The other problem is with Apple and Microsoft, Serif can get 1 to 2 years advanced warning of things changeling and what the changes are.  With Linux you find out after it has been released....   

*A lot of Linux coders know a hell of a lot less then they think they do about Linux, OS and RTOS in general, never mind software engineering.

 

Well, the average Windows user likely would not be using either Photoshop or Affinity Photo for that matter. What an average user would need is a way to do average stuff like writing documents, dealing with bank/government services, browse the internet, watching streams, using social media, playing videos and audio, and playing games. That's basically it.

Most of that stuff are either done through browsers, are already free software like VLC, are done through phone apps, and using Steam or some other game launcher. I was able to set practically all of that up in a couple of hours at most on my Linux Mint install through downloading from the built in app downloader or directly from the websites like you already do on Windows. The only thing I was having any issues with was audio, but that was solely because I was using a USB audio interface that the vast majority of people never use. Built in sound cards don't have this issue and unless you are doing audio productions, you likely won't face any issues at all as an average desktop user.

For the average user Linux is perfectly serviceable as an OS. It's when you need more specialised software where you will have to jump through a lot more hurdles to make Linux work, but it really depends on what type of work that is. However, then you are no longer talking about the average PC user anymore. An average user would be fine running Gimp or other FOSS or web browser based alternatives since they do not need the advanced features to do simple image editing for instance.

Linux is outperforming MacOS on Steam in terms of user base (Windows is still the undisputed king), which is a big deal since Steam is dwarfing all other gaming platforms on PC. Gaming on Linux is more popular than on Mac. Heck, even when looking at the mobile phone market it isn't just a clear cut win for Apple. Android is built on Linux and it is the most popular mobile platform when looking at just Android vs iOS. Also, Macs haven't been good for gaming for years and Apple users are a different kind of breed altogether. If you are a creative then Apple products are for you, but if you want to game then Linux is the better option.

Picking a distro to support isn't that much of a concern. Linux distros may be plenty, but a lot of them are based on other more common distros like Ubuntu and Linux Mint being based on Debian. If let's say Affinity was ported to Debian, then it would mean that branches of Debian would be able to run Affinity as well. Even other distros not related to Debian would be able to run Affinity as long as the nerds (we're not geeks) make the effort to make it run.

Then there is the Steam route where Proton (which is just a different version of Wine that Valve also contribute patches to) is able to run the vast majority of my Steam library with very little setup beyond installing the right Proton version. It's not perfect, but it's been working incredibly well after just a week of using Linux Mint. I even have other work software I use on Steam like Substance Painter working practically flawlessly from my Steam account. If Affinity had a Steam version odds are that I would be able to run the entire Affinity Suite on Steam right now. I would even double dip and pay again for it if that's what it takes to make it run.

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On 5/15/2024 at 12:49 AM, Chills said:

not really, You are now installing emulators most people have no idea about them. It isn't out of the box like it is on windows or IOS. 
This is why only geeks use Linux not 99% of the population

 

Emulation is something completely different from using Wine/Proton. The former attempts to run a simulated environment where it makes the software believe it is run on the hardware/software it was originally designed for. Running something like Smash Bros Melee on Dolphin is done by making the game files think that it's being played on an actual Gamecube. Emulation is basically a closed garden where the software cannot see beyond what is inside that garden besides the emulator itself which needs to be designed for the OS to work at all.

Wine/Proton converts certain code and wraps around the original code as a translator so it runs natively on the platform it's being run on. For instance, Proton on Steam compiles shaders written DirectX or OpenGL into Vulkan and even saves the compiled code to become just any other piece of data when downloading a game. It installs the software in a way that follows the Linux infrastructure where different folders contain their own types of data that would normally be stored like in AppData, Documents, Program Files, etc., etc. It takes the Windows code and makes it understand that it is in a Linux environment, thus making the software for all intents and purposes a Linux port.

Wine/Proton automates stuff that would normally be done through actual coding. It is an incredibly smart piece of engineering that makes the life of coders a lot easier if they want to take advantage of the tech to make stuff Linux compatible.

Heck, the idea behind this isn't even completely Linux exclusive. Lately there was news about a guy who had created something that converted Nintendo 64 code into Windows programs in C++. Those games have been emulated for years, but what made this news so special is that it meant that any Nintendo 64 game could run natively on PC, thus opening up for new possibilities of adding to the code base for those games and even making emulation obsolete for Nintendo 64. The big difference between that and Wine/Proton is that the Nintendo 64 project completely converts all code into native Windows executables (.exe) instead of wrapping around the original code, from my understanding.

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1 hour ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

Macs haven't been good for gaming for years and Apple users are a different kind of breed altogether.

Apple has been putting some effort into turning this situation around, and we are starting to see early signs that it is working, so this may start to change in the near future.  I don't expect that macOS will ever have a greater market share in gaming than do some of the existing prevalent platforms, but it does look like it has the potential to grow at least somewhat larger than it is right now.

 

1 minute ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

Wine/Proton converts code so it runs natively on the platform it's being run on.

It doesn't convert the code, it just implements the API calls.  It is almost exactly for Linux what the Win32 subsystem in Windows is when the apps are running on Windows - Wine translates Win32 for the Linux kernel much as the Win32 subsystem in Windows translates Win32 for the Windows kernel.  The code is not converted, rather a small portion of the Windows "platform" is reimplemented on top of Linux.

 

3 minutes ago, Frozen Death Knight said:

It takes the Windows code and makes it understand that it is in a Linux environment

No, it keeps the Windows code ignorant of the Linux environment.  It even "mounts" a folder within the Linux filesystem to a "drive letter" for the Windows programs and treats it as the root of a hard drive with a (mostly empty) Windows-style filesystem, as far as the running Windows apps are concerned.

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20 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Apple has been putting some effort into turning this situation around, and we are starting to see early signs that it is working, so this may start to change in the near future.  I don't expect that macOS will ever have a greater market share in gaming than do some of the existing prevalent platforms, but it does look like it has the potential to grow at least somewhat larger than it is right now.

 

It doesn't convert the code, it just implements the API calls.  It is almost exactly for Linux what the Win32 subsystem in Windows is when the apps are running on Windows - Wine translates Win32 for the Linux kernel much as the Win32 subsystem in Windows translates Win32 for the Windows kernel.  The code is not converted, rather a small portion of the Windows "platform" is reimplemented on top of Linux.

 

No, it keeps the Windows code ignorant of the Linux environment.  It even "mounts" a folder within the Linux filesystem to a "drive letter" for the Windows programs and treats it as the root of a hard drive with a (mostly empty) Windows-style filesystem, as far as the running Windows apps are concerned.

What signs are you referring to? The performance has improved, but Mac gaming has still lost significant popularity that is going to be hard to take back. Besides their iPad tech I have yet to see anything particularly impressive on the desktop side.

Aha, got it. Though, there is code conversion for specific stuff where Proton adds additional code from compiling the software. It doesn't change the underlying code for the software, but wraps around it so it can be understood by Linux. Stuff inside specific Windows folders are being installed in the correct Linux equivalent folders because of that Proton code wrap. I guess I should have been more specific with what I meant by converting code.

The Proton wrap is still telling the Windows programs where to install what where and how to read the data. That's what I meant by it understanding the Linux infrastructure. If the software is a foreigner then Proton is the native translator that guides it through the unfamiliar land that is Linux.

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  • 4 weeks later...
9 minutes ago, anto said:

@Dan C Since you closed the following thread

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/207951-lets-group-buy-a-linux-version-of-affinity-suite/#comment-1244025

How to interpret Canva's comments under this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF0kW8QDAn8
Isn't it a double game?

Do you mean this comment, or something different? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF0kW8QDAn8&lc=Ugyq-KLN2s50PRrMqQ54AaABAg.A4YY1E0sz2rA4ch5m6Ij4N

 

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.5, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.5

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7 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Your link does not lead to a comment, but to a video.
There are dozens of similar comments from Canva:
"Your thoughts and experiences are important to us, and we're always looking for ways to make Canva better."

But they ask that you leave comments and feedback on their website:
"Feel free to reach us at canva.com/help/get-in-touch/general-feedback/"

So what is this game? Or is it just a game of words?

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@Dan C If you're not planning a Linux version, why is Canva deceiving and encouraging users with its answers?

If you know in advance that there will be no Linux version, why did Canva write this comment three weeks ago?

Quote

Your suggestion has been duly noted, and we will inform our team to consider it for the enhancement of Canva.

 

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18 minutes ago, anto said:

Your link does not lead to a comment, but to a video.

If you click on the link, the comment will be highlighted below the video. That's the only way I know to link to a comment on a YouTube video.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.5, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.5

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