TomM1 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Currently, when I add a (child) adjustment layer, it appears in a collapsed position. I would like to add an adjustment layer in expanded position automatically. AP2 Thank you. Quote website Mac mini (2018) 3.2 GHz Intel Core i7 64 GB • Radeon Pro 580 8 GB • macOS Monterey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 I could be wrong but I do not think there is any setting in AP 2 that would do that. It always was added expanded in V1, so I think this is a possibly unwelcome change.... Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron P. Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 2 hours ago, R C-R said: so I think this is a possibly unwelcome change.... Yes it could be, then again it also could be a welcome change by those that didn't like the adjustment layer added in an expanded layer. Who knows?? Certainly is different. PaulEC 1 Quote Affinity Photo 2.4..; Affinity Designer 2.4..; Affinity Publisher 2.4..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smadell Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 My two cents….Adding an adjustment (or live filter) with the layers expanded would be much better. Since non-destructiveness is at the heart of Affinity’s applications, leaving the layers expanded fascilitates this. I find myself opening up the layers almost as a matter of course. Perhaps even more important is the collapsed vs expanded state when adding a layer mask. If I add a mask, when would I not want the layers expanded? Quote Affinity Photo 2, Affinity Publisher 2, Affinity Designer 2 (latest retail versions) - desktop & iPad Culling - FastRawViewer; Raw Developer - Capture One Pro; Asset Management - Photo Supreme Mac Studio with M2 Max (2023}; 64 GB RAM; macOS 13 (Ventura); Mac Studio Display - iPad Air 4th Gen; iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, smadell said: Since non-destructiveness is at the heart of Affinity’s applications, leaving the layers expanded fascilitates this I don't see how having them collapsed makes anything destructive. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomM1 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 Perhaps someone's idea of efficiency. (collapsed) But the way I have my layers panel set, you don't see more than two adjustment layer icons when collapsed. I need to have them expanded just to see what's there. R C-R 1 Quote website Mac mini (2018) 3.2 GHz Intel Core i7 64 GB • Radeon Pro 580 8 GB • macOS Monterey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smadell Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 28 minutes ago, walt.farrell said: I don't see how having them collapsed makes anything destructive. It doesn’t, @walt.farrell, but a non-destructive workflow ought to make editing that adjustment/filter/mask layer as easy as possible. And expanding the layers to expose them simply makes further editing easier. Quote Affinity Photo 2, Affinity Publisher 2, Affinity Designer 2 (latest retail versions) - desktop & iPad Culling - FastRawViewer; Raw Developer - Capture One Pro; Asset Management - Photo Supreme Mac Studio with M2 Max (2023}; 64 GB RAM; macOS 13 (Ventura); Mac Studio Display - iPad Air 4th Gen; iPadOS 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 39 minutes ago, TomM1 said: But the way I have my layers panel set, you don't see more than two adjustment layer icons when collapsed. I need to have them expanded just to see what's there. The way my Layers panel is set, I can see up to 3 child adjustment layers but no more than that so for instance I see this when it's collapsed: but I have to expand it to see that there are in actually 5 adjustment layers: So like @smadell said, I don't like that adjustments appear collapsed by default. It was better in V1. TomM1 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyJack Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 Soooo.... This is no longer an option in the Assistant panel in V2?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, JimmyJack said: Soooo.... This is no longer an option in the Assistant panel in V2?? No, it's still there, but what we are talking about is with it set to add as child, it adds the adjustment to the layer collapsed (like in my 1st screenshot), so to see all the adjustment layers if there are more than a few of them (like in my 2nd screenshot) we have to click the > button to see them all or to edit any that are not shown in the limited space available when the parent layer is collapsed. JimmyJack 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomM1 Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 I also end up turning adjustment and filter layers on and off to evaluate their effects. So the layers need to be expanded for that. Ron P. 1 Quote website Mac mini (2018) 3.2 GHz Intel Core i7 64 GB • Radeon Pro 580 8 GB • macOS Monterey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron P. Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 11 hours ago, TomM1 said: I also end up turning adjustment and filter layers on and off to evaluate their effects. Yes I do that all the time. I can't count the number of tutorials I've watched where the tutor is showing the effect or adjustment. "Here's the before, here's the after"... Quote Affinity Photo 2.4..; Affinity Designer 2.4..; Affinity Publisher 2.4..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomM1 Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 I might add that the adjustment icon partially hides the mask reference when the layer is collasped. Quote website Mac mini (2018) 3.2 GHz Intel Core i7 64 GB • Radeon Pro 580 8 GB • macOS Monterey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 On 12/21/2022 at 3:43 AM, R C-R said: It was better in V1. As far as I know, in V1 the adjustment icons did not appear in collapsed layer. You can even click on them, and you can adjust their parameters. So in most situations (smaller number of adjustments, adding adjustments that I really need so I don't have to turn them off) the user can do with a collapsed layer, which makes the layers stack significantly clearer. That was probably the reason for this change in behavior. walt.farrell 1 Quote Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301 Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 6 hours ago, Pšenda said: As far as I know, in V1 the adjustment icons did not appear in collapsed layer. That isn't what is being discussed here. It is that in V1, when you add an adjustment layer to a layer, it automatically expands the parent layer. That does not happen in V2. TomM1 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomM1 Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 Or if the adjustment layer dialog box had a preview toggle (Photoshop), it would lessen the need to expand the adjustment layer in the layers panel, to turn it on and off. Quote website Mac mini (2018) 3.2 GHz Intel Core i7 64 GB • Radeon Pro 580 8 GB • macOS Monterey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 hour ago, TomM1 said: lessen the need to expand the adjustment layer in the layers panel, to turn it on and off. When a mask-nested Mask/Adjustment thumbnail is visible in an unexpanded row of the Layers panel, simply shift-click the thumbnail to toggle visibility of the Mask/Adjustment without needing to expand the row first. However, that functionality is broken for mask-nested Filters and the built-in mask of a Fill/Adjustment/Filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomM1 Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, ,,, said: When a mask-nested Mask/Adjustment thumbnail is visible in an unexpanded row of the Layers panel, simply shift-click the thumbnail to toggle visibility of the Mask/Adjustment without needing to expand the row first. Very good! However, for my screen set up, I can only see up to 3 adjustment layer icons when collapsed. So for 4 or more I need to expand them anyway. R C-R 1 Quote website Mac mini (2018) 3.2 GHz Intel Core i7 64 GB • Radeon Pro 580 8 GB • macOS Monterey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, TomM1 said: Very good! However, for my screen set up, I can only see up to 3 adjustment layer icons when collapsed. So for 4 or more I need to expand them anyway. Same here, but being an option for three is much better than no option at all. Pšenda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 On 2/4/2023 at 3:59 PM, R C-R said: That isn't what is being discussed here. It is that in V1, when you add an adjustment layer to a layer, it automatically expands the parent layer. That does not happen in V2. This is quite evident. But if you could notice, I responded to "It was better in V1.". On 12/21/2022 at 3:17 AM, smadell said: but a non-destructive workflow ought to make editing that adjustment/filter/mask layer as easy as possible. And expanding the layers to expose them simply makes further editing easier. But if you have the number of adjustments up to three, then you have the option to change their parameters directly in the collapsed layer. With the standard number of adjustments, there is no need to expand the layers and fill the layers stack with adjustment lines - which makes the orientation unclear and ultimately makes the adjustments more difficult, and it is therefore against the principle of non-destructive adjustments as you describe it. Only for a larger number of adjustments does the layer need to be expanded - which Affinity could do automatically. When adding an adjustment to three, leave the layer collapsed, after adding another adjustment, then expanded it. Quote Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301 Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, ,,, said: simply shift-click the thumbnail to toggle visibility of the Mask/Adjustment without needing to expand the row first. A design flaw is that the enabled/disabled adjustment layer has no visual feedback in its thumbnail. When the layer is collapsed, it is not clear from the icons which of the adjustments are on and which are off. P.S. Consistency in using shift-click on the thumbnail as well as the main layer would be good. Now you can use shift-click to turn off adjustments, but to turn off the entire layer you have to click on the dot. Shift-click on the layer thumbnail would unify the controls. Edited February 6, 2023 by Pšenda Quote Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301 Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lepr Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 51 minutes ago, Pšenda said: A design flaw is that the enabled/disabled adjustment layer has no visual feedback in its thumbnail. When the layer is collapsed, it is not clear from the icons which of the adjustments are on and which are off. It's made clear by a red diagonal line across the thumbnail of a disabled Mask/Adjustment in the collapsed row. At least that happens in the apps on macOS. R C-R 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R C-R Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Pšenda said: This is quite evident. But if you could notice, I responded to "It was better in V1.". I am not sure what you mean. At least on Macs, in the collapsed state in V1, the adjustment icons did appear, just like they do in V2. But regardless, we are talking about the initial behavior when an adjustment is added to a parent layer. It is expanded in V1 but collapsed in V2. TomM1 1 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 Affinity Photo 1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pšenda Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 On 2/6/2023 at 4:10 PM, R C-R said: But regardless, we are talking about the initial behavior when an adjustment is added to a parent layer. Yes, everyone here is talking about it. On 2/6/2023 at 4:10 PM, R C-R said: It is expanded in V1 but collapsed in V2. Yes, very desirable behavior for me - thank you Affinity. On 2/6/2023 at 11:49 AM, Pšenda said: But if you have the number of adjustments up to three, then you have the option to change their parameters directly in the collapsed layer. With the standard number of adjustments, there is no need to expand the layers and fill the layers stack with adjustment lines - which makes the orientation unclear and ultimately makes the adjustments more difficult, and it is therefore against the principle of non-destructive adjustments as you describe it. Only for a larger number of adjustments does the layer need to be expanded - which Affinity could do automatically. When adding an adjustment to three, leave the layer collapsed, after adding another adjustment, then expanded it. Quote Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301 Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155. Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155. Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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