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Mesh gradient (again)


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Bump up the topic! Seems to be an old request dated back to V1.

I hope we get the mesh gradient tool in V2 at some point (sooner, I prefer). This one of the top three tools I miss in Designer.
I've just started with Affinity. The way I work with photorealistic illustrations the mesh gradient/fill tool would be a killer feature. Now getting realistic reflections and shading on smooth surfaces is unnecessary complex using dozens of shapes, fills, layers & layer effects. Gradient fill would help a lot.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, JariH said:

Now getting realistic reflections and shading on smooth surfaces is unnecessary complex using dozens of shapes, fills, layers & layer effects.

You can always add the Mesh Warp live filter via File > Edit in Photo.
The gradient will be rasterized on export, but it will remain nondestructively editable.
You may also want to use a blank vector clipping object to keep the outline sharp and intact. The actual vector gradient child can then be any shape:

ade2_aph2_mesh_warp_filter_gradient_mesh.png.0709d81705733c92446c328bc7e5059f.png

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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24 minutes ago, JariH said:

Call me purist, but I would like to keep everything un-rasterized

Oh, as a vector fundamentalist, I hear you very well! ;) 
But that's the tool we can work with now

And as noted, rasterization happens only on export.  

Anyway…
Just for the fun of it, I just tried to create a mesh gradient in VectorStyler.
I got stuck because I just couldn't figure out how to edit the colors.
R.T.F.M. didn't help anything. (Well, because there is basically no F.M. to R. in the first place.)
Apparently I'm not the first one to get stuck
Oh well. Giving up. Don't have the patience for that.

Gradient meshes are a complex thing.

@Serif, please take your time to do it right! 

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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4 hours ago, loukash said:

Oh, as a vector fundamentalist, I hear you very well! ;) 
But that's the tool we can work with now

And as noted, rasterization happens only on export.  

Anyway…
Just for the fun of it, I just tried to create a mesh gradient in VectorStyler.
I got stuck because I just couldn't figure out how to edit the colors.
R.T.F.M. didn't help anything. (Well, because there is basically no F.M. to R. in the first place.)
Apparently I'm not the first one to get stuck
Oh well. Giving up. Don't have the patience for that.

Gradient meshes are a complex thing.

@Serif, please take your time to do it right! 

There's a link on the main website for vectorstyler called "documentation" that takes you to the manual. Here is the direct link

You can download the latest version of the VectorStyler PDF manual here

Here is the direct link to the manual section on using gradient mesh in Vectorstyler

I pulled up the instructions from the manual and played around with the gradient mesh some and was able to figure out how to add colors, etc. I also agree that the gradient mesh in Vectorstyler could continue to be improved. Your suggestions and ideas could prove very useful to getting the gradient mesh to where it needs to be.
The developer of Vectorstyler is very responsive and open to hearing critiques, ideas for improvement and general feedback on anything in the program. He's in the middle of a large update yet still releases consistent bug fixes and improvements along the way. I encourage you to share your questions and ideas on the forum so they could be considered and implemented asap. Here is the link to the forum

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3 minutes ago, Boldlinedesign said:

There's a link on the main website for vectorstyler called "documentation" that takes you to the manual. Here is the direct link

Thanks, that looks much better than the one I was taken to from the Help menu – which is obviously just the "introduction". :) 

6 minutes ago, Boldlinedesign said:

The developer of Vectorstyler is very responsive and open to hearing critiques, ideas for improvement and general feedback on anything in the program.

I know. They've already got back to me after I've submitted a crash report recently. 
Primarily it's really just this Featuritis™ that gets massively in my way. I'll need to figure out a way to remove everything out of sight that I don't need, i.e. keeping only those features visible that I can't have in Affinity and which I may need every now and then.

Speaking of which, I haven't found a way to get gradient mesh out of VS into Affinity. Not even export via PDF works.

15 minutes ago, Boldlinedesign said:

I encourage you to share your questions and ideas on the forum

It's a matter of priorities. Contributing to VS is not among them. Given the scope of my work, VS won't be my primary tool, unlike the Affinity suite as a whole.
Heck, I couldn't even figure out yet how to export a PDF/X-4 from VS, or if it's even possible. (Yeah, off to RTFM… :D)

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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15 minutes ago, loukash said:

It's a matter of priorities. Contributing to VS is not among them. Given the scope of my work, VS won't be my primary tool, unlike the Affinity suite as a whole.
Heck, I couldn't even figure out yet how to export a PDF/X-4 from VS, or if it's even possible. (Yeah, off to RTFM… :D)

I understand - at the same time, you are looking for Vectorstyler to fill in the gaps for what you need that Affinity does not yet offer - so I'd think VS has some priority to you. 
It could take years for Affinity to get things like gradient mesh so you very well might be using VS far more than you may anticipate. Some people look at VS and Designer as a black and white absolute choice - choose one or the other. I say, use both in the ways that most help your workflow. Most everything can be copied and pasted easily between the two programs anyway. I've designed plenty of things on my ipad in designer and then copied and pasted the work into a VS file to finish it, etc. 
Throwing a few questions out on the forum VS there does not seem to be a huge investment in time and effort, especially if it directly relates to what you need VS to accomplish for your workflow. Just my opinion. I spend time on the Affinity forum several times a week even as VS is my primary vector program I use daily. There are things I'm testing and using in Designer that I want to see if it could help my workflow,so it's worth being involved here

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1 minute ago, Boldlinedesign said:

It could take years for Affinity to get things like gradient mesh […]

… and previously I've been using Illustrator literally for decades and never had the actual need to use gradient meshes for a real life project. So what. :) 

4 minutes ago, Boldlinedesign said:

use both in the ways that most help your workflow. Most everything can be copied and pasted easily between the two programs anyway

Exactly.

Anyway, we're not here to discuss VS. I only brought it up as an example that gradient meshes are a complex thing to work with. VS was thus only my "next best victim" because I can't obviously launch my Illustrator CS5 for comparison while booting my Mac from the Catalina partition…

My main point was that if we need gradient mesh in Affinity now, the native workflow involves the use of APh's Mesh Warp

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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9 hours ago, JariH said:

Call me purist, but I would like to keep everything un-rasterized 🙂

If others here need VECTOR mesh gradients for professional reasons or document-technical needs, and are looking for an affordable vector tool, Vectorstyler supports mesh gradients and many, many other vector features not available in Affinity today and probably not in 5 or even 10 years. It is a program for working with vector graphics on a serious and comprehensive level, and the algorithms are of very high quality. There is not much raster junk involved.

How others in here feel about this program or Illustrator or other etc. is irrelevant and ends up in endless weirdly unfocused discussions that shroud the few amounts of knowledge in the forum in a useless cloud of smoke.

Try the program for the trial period and see for yourself if it is a tool for your own hobby or business needs and personal preferences. And when it is examined and clarified, it doesn't matter at all what others think.

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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6 hours ago, François R said:

Try the program for the trial period and see for yourself if it is a tool for your own hobby or business needs and personal preferences. And when it is examined and clarified, it doesn't matter at all what others think.

Out of curiosity, I installed Vectorstyler, and gave it a whirl the past 2 hours. Some observations:

  • the mesh gradient tool is prone to corruption of the rendered result. Is that a bug?
    image.png.97355d95fce6d05f7c753b7661335729.png
  • In the first hour I experienced two crashes. One where I left the program for a while, and it spontaneously self-combusted. That doesn't happen very often in applications. That worries me.
    Vectorstyler seems quite crash-prone. I was not doing anything complex, merely placing shapes and feeling my way around.
  • Image effects like the curve corrupt the rendered result as well. Bug?
    image.png.edce4b13602bb390b9e754d5a08ad3de.png
  • It has a good vector tool set.
  • It feels somewhat sluggish to work with. I wonder how it will keep up with more complex artwork, since it did start to slow down with quite simple things. I also experienced lags and hiccups all the time during testing. Working with text felt slow as well. Even the GUI panels feel slow to respond. Overall, it feels clunky. Other design apps feel much snappier.
  • There are a number of features that I really like: the Repeater (something I wanted in other design apps), and the Stroke Width tool which I use all the time in OpenToonz and ClipStudio. There are a lot of options to fine-tune things as well. The vector brushes remind me of Expression (remember that gem?), which set the bar quite high.
  • I am not a particular fan of the way image effects are isolated from the layer stack.

All in all, it has potential.

I have to add that Vectorstyler is one of the least stable and buggy design apps that I encountered in the past few years. The developers should focus on stabilizing their app and improve the overall performance. In its current version it is still too crash prone and buggy for my taste.

A standard test of mine is to load a certain AI file (artwork not by me, but by Von Glitschka).

Affinity Designer loads it perfectly:

image.png.8e55c1dfec7bbcb563855151ab4bd4a7.png

The same AI file in Vectorstyler:

image.png.f4abc647e90fc062cd0fa7497655042f.png

Oops! Not quite-so-compatible with AI files, it seems.

Editing this file is butter-smooth in Affinity Designer. In Vectorstyler it is a trial in patience. Even moving single objects updates the screen perhaps by 2 or 3 frames per second. Which confirms my initial doubts about Vectorstyler's performance with even medium complex art such as in this case.

Vectorstyler is not quite ready for prime time, in my opinion. An interesting newcomer on the market to be sure. But I'd rather have decent performance while editing than a missing mesh gradient tool. What use is a mesh gradient tool when editing slows down to a crawl with medium-complex vector art?

It is also quite expensive for what is on offer in my opinion.

I played around with the Windows version, btw.

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15 hours ago, Medical Officer Bones said:

Out of curiosity, I installed Vectorstyler, and gave it a whirl the past 2 hours. Some observations:

  • the mesh gradient tool is prone to corruption of the rendered result. Is that a bug?
    image.png.97355d95fce6d05f7c753b7661335729.png
  • In the first hour I experienced two crashes. One where I left the program for a while, and it spontaneously self-combusted. That doesn't happen very often in applications. That worries me.
    Vectorstyler seems quite crash-prone. I was not doing anything complex, merely placing shapes and feeling my way around.
  • Image effects like the curve corrupt the rendered result as well. Bug?
    image.png.edce4b13602bb390b9e754d5a08ad3de.png
  • It has a good vector tool set.
  • It feels somewhat sluggish to work with. I wonder how it will keep up with more complex artwork, since it did start to slow down with quite simple things. I also experienced lags and hiccups all the time during testing. Working with text felt slow as well. Even the GUI panels feel slow to respond. Overall, it feels clunky. Other design apps feel much snappier.
  • There are a number of features that I really like: the Repeater (something I wanted in other design apps), and the Stroke Width tool which I use all the time in OpenToonz and ClipStudio. There are a lot of options to fine-tune things as well. The vector brushes remind me of Expression (remember that gem?), which set the bar quite high.
  • I am not a particular fan of the way image effects are isolated from the layer stack.

All in all, it has potential.

It is not expensive - it sports an almost complete vector featureset. It is very reasonably priced. People here invested twice in Designer 1 and 2 and got 10% of the features. Paid the same price or more.

Anyway:

image.png.2301ee991d0a26702022c20250476236.png

  • I don't see the same artifacts, but e-mailed the developer about similar issues a year ago and the issues were resolved within weeks. Not years or never.
  • The AI format is reverse engineered - share the files with the developer and the issues you encounter are resolved pretty quickly.
  • Bugs are prioritized over new features - so reported bugs are resolved quickly. I have never struggled with bugs more than a month. Sometimes they were fixed within a week and I could WORK! This is the what I hear from the developer all the time - short but sweet: "Replicated! Will be fixed ASAP!"

The Windows port is a bit slower than on macOS. I scrapped Windows for business work (graphics) years ago though and feel wonderful: I run all my software on M1 or M2 equipped Macs and performance is excellent. VS really shines on M1 as almost every program I own.

What is worth mentioning is the customer focus - issues are resolved when reported and the issues I e-mailed the developer were resolved/improved dramatically over the years. None left to complain about in a forum like we see here. So I simply get work done.

The issue I see here is customers reporting bugs and asking for features for 8 years not getting much of it. Imagine the number of hours wasted for all customers. Years without crucial features. I don't sit and WAIT! That is not what life and work is about at all. I get work DONE in of course Adobe but also Vectorstyler, and with Vectorstyler issues encountered are fixed when I as a customer contact the company and they fix it as soon as they can. It is very efficient and mature.

So, in short. Give VS a test drive, see if price and features and workflows is for you, if you encounter issues contact the company with documentation (a file for example) and you will get it fixed. Running around in circles and practically living 24/7 in this forum is not what characterizes a professional/constructive/creative workflow or life.

By the way, is the "orchestrated attack" on Affinity over? 🤣

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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3 minutes ago, François R said:

By the way, is the orchestrated attack on Affinity over?

Comparison and criticism is encouraged. Selling hundreds of thousands of copies of our software in a week or 4 leads to a lot of feedback, both positive and negative but nothing I would call orchestrated. They are all personal experience but if a lot of people say the same thing at the same time it may feel coordinated..... But that is not what this thread is about, so let's please keep this thread on track.

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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41 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

Comparison and criticism is encouraged. Selling hundreds of thousands of copies of our software in a week or 4 leads to a lot of feedback, both positive and negative but nothing I would call orchestrated. They are all personal experience but if a lot of people say the same thing at the same time it may feel coordinated..... But that is not what this thread is about, so let's please keep this thread on track.

I was referring to the member's comical and unrealistic claim a month ago that there was a possible orchestrated attack against this forum following your release initiated by a major player or similar. It couldn't be due to genuine dissatisfaction, apparently... sigh.

I know it was a lot of feedback from your customers, which of course coincided with the timing of a major release, and the sales figures you mention, and which had to do with Serif Software's business decisions and design choices, and customers' reactions to them. There is an incredible contrast between Serif's willingness for this dissatisfaction to be communicated here by customers (Which is very civilized, thank you for that), and then a small number of members' adamant response to these dissatisfied customers. Bots get more sleep.

So there was a bit of sourness about turning one's back on reality. There are things Affinity doesn't do to people's satisfaction (yet?) and conversely things Affinity does to people's satisfaction. I think people should be aware of their options and make their own experiences and choices without everything turning into red vs blue.

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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2 hours ago, François R said:

Anyway:

[VS gradient mesh image]

I still wonder how to get the mesh out of VS in a universal vector format that Affinity can open.
So far, the most straightforward procedure on Mac seems to be:

  1. copy mesh to clipboard
  2. Preview.app > New From Clipboard
  3. Save as PDF
  4. Place PDF in Affinity

It's a shame that Affinity cannot interpret the mesh directly while even the MacOS built-in PDF tool can.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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8 hours ago, François R said:

The Windows port is a bit slower than on macOS.

Indeed: it is very slow to work with. I compared with Inkscape on Windows today, and although Inkscape isn't known for its performance on Windows by a long shot, Vectorstyler is even less responsive when editing objects and curves (to be fair, Inkscape's zooming in and out is dreadful compared). I find that quite surprising for a relative newly developed app; I'd think they would have a focus on performance.

I'm back at work after the holidays where I have access to a Studio M2 mac and compare again. I wonder though, because if Vectorstyler's code runs that slow on Windows, it can't magically run that much faster on a different OS platform.

I will test.

8 hours ago, François R said:

The AI format is reverse engineered - share the files with the developer and the issues you encounter are resolved pretty quickly.

Planning on setting up an account there and I will send them the demo file later this week.

6 hours ago, François R said:

I think people should be aware of their options and make their own experiences and choices without everything turning into red vs blue.

Wholeheartedly agreed! Software is merely a tool. Use the tools that suit the job and your own workflow best. For example, I would love to switch to Publisher from InDesign, but I simply cannot due to the 1bit image issues.

8 hours ago, François R said:

I scrapped Windows for business work (graphics) years ago though and feel wonderful: I run all my software on M1 or M2 equipped Macs and performance is excellent. VS really shines on M1 as almost every program I own.

Not an option for me: my work involves 3d and animation, and Macs aren't suitable for that workflow and software. I don't care about the OS that I am running (it is all the same to me) but about the software. For example, I have to be able to run 3Ds Max. And that is just one example.

If it were up to me I would switch to Linux at home, but similar problems there. Perhaps after I get my pension? But that is still a long way off. 🙂 So Windows it is.

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On 12/21/2022 at 3:25 AM, Medical Officer Bones said:

I have to add that Vectorstyler is one of the least stable and buggy design apps that I encountered in the past few years. The developers should focus on stabilizing their app and improve the overall performance. In its current version it is still too crash prone and buggy for my taste.

I think it's great you have vectorstyler a whirl. Passing this advice along from the developer on the VS forum; You're most likely running into issues because the OpenCL driver on Windows is not working properly. You should try setting it to "software mode" and see if that improves things.

Speaking for myself, Your negative results and crashing in VS is not typical of most users. I use it as my primary vector design program and use designer occasionally. Using both gives a lot of freedom and flexibility to the workflow

 

 

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...
On 12/21/2022 at 9:25 AM, Medical Officer Bones said:

Out of curiosity, I installed Vectorstyler, and gave it a whirl the past 2 hours. Some observations:

  • the mesh gradient tool is prone to corruption of the rendered result. Is that a bug?
    image.png.97355d95fce6d05f7c753b7661335729.png
  • In the first hour I experienced two crashes. One where I left the program for a while, and it spontaneously self-combusted. That doesn't happen very often in applications. That worries me.
    Vectorstyler seems quite crash-prone. I was not doing anything complex, merely placing shapes and feeling my way around.
  • Image effects like the curve corrupt the rendered result as well. Bug?
    image.png.edce4b13602bb390b9e754d5a08ad3de.png
  • It has a good vector tool set.
  • It feels somewhat sluggish to work with. I wonder how it will keep up with more complex artwork, since it did start to slow down with quite simple things. I also experienced lags and hiccups all the time during testing. Working with text felt slow as well. Even the GUI panels feel slow to respond. Overall, it feels clunky. Other design apps feel much snappier.
  • There are a number of features that I really like: the Repeater (something I wanted in other design apps), and the Stroke Width tool which I use all the time in OpenToonz and ClipStudio. There are a lot of options to fine-tune things as well. The vector brushes remind me of Expression (remember that gem?), which set the bar quite high.
  • I am not a particular fan of the way image effects are isolated from the layer stack.

All in all, it has potential.

I have to add that Vectorstyler is one of the least stable and buggy design apps that I encountered in the past few years. The developers should focus on stabilizing their app and improve the overall performance. In its current version it is still too crash prone and buggy for my taste.

A standard test of mine is to load a certain AI file (artwork not by me, but by Von Glitschka).

Affinity Designer loads it perfectly:

image.png.8e55c1dfec7bbcb563855151ab4bd4a7.png

The same AI file in Vectorstyler:

image.png.f4abc647e90fc062cd0fa7497655042f.png

Oops! Not quite-so-compatible with AI files, it seems.

Editing this file is butter-smooth in Affinity Designer. In Vectorstyler it is a trial in patience. Even moving single objects updates the screen perhaps by 2 or 3 frames per second. Which confirms my initial doubts about Vectorstyler's performance with even medium complex art such as in this case.

Vectorstyler is not quite ready for prime time, in my opinion. An interesting newcomer on the market to be sure. But I'd rather have decent performance while editing than a missing mesh gradient tool. What use is a mesh gradient tool when editing slows down to a crawl with medium-complex vector art?

It is also quite expensive for what is on offer in my opinion.

I played around with the Windows version, btw.

A pretty good summary of my own problems after having tried VectorStyler a few years ago. Features are nice, but performance is honestly more important in my eyes. Hope the development focuses more on the core engine so it can become a solid choice for vector art.

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/21/2023 at 12:51 AM, TM1 said:

Wondering if a Mesh Gradient is on the product roadmap ?  It sure would be a killer feature for me.

Anyone from support able to offer any information on this?

 

+1 for mesh gradients
I use mesh gradients for our new label colours every month and was planning to transition to Affinity.

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+1000000

Tzvi 9_9

Lenovo IdeaPad 5 Ryzen 7 5700U Rx Vega 8 graphics 

16GB RAM (15.3 usable) 

Acer KB202 27in 1080p monitor

Affinity Photo 1.10.6

Affinity photo 2 2.4.0 Affinity Designer 2 2.4.0 Affinity Publisher 2 2.4.0 on Windows 11 Pro version 23H2

Beta builds as they come out.

canon 80d| sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC MACRO OS HSM | Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di LD | Canon EF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM Autofocus APS-C Lens, Black

 

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