Need help selecting a furry-edged photo (split)

[vpkumar]

I have been seeing all the tutorials. Being not a professional in photo editing, the most difficult task I find is in selecting a furry edge photo.  I would be grateful if some one could  clarify what the best selection tool or procedure would be, in a furry edge photo with not sufficient contrast with the background. In some cases, the  fringes are a problem and in many cases the selection if transferred to another background, you can see the sharp edges clearly and that doesnt look natural.

Can some expert  enlighten me please.

[GarryP]

It might help us to help you if you show us an example of a “furry edge photo”, annotate it to show us where the extents of the “furry edge” are, and tell us whether you want the “furry edge” to be included in the selection or not and, if so, how much of the “furry edge” you want to keep.

(Your idea of what a “furry edge” is may not be what our idea of a “furry edge” is.)

[Granddaddy]

There are many tutorials on making difficult selections, especially around furry edged animals or human hair. It would help if we knew what you considered "seeing all the tutorials" before we point you to others. Have you watched tutorials by several other authors besides the official Affinity tutorials? 

[vpkumar]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:29 PM, GarryP said:

It might help us to help you if you show us an example of a “furry edge photo”, annotate it to show us where the extents of the “furry edge” are, and tell us whether you want the “furry edge” to be included in the selection or not and, if so, how much of the “furry edge” you want to keep.

(Your idea of what a “furry edge” is may not be what our idea of a “furry edge” is.)

I have attached 2 photos. Both B & W. What I meant by furry edge is that the edges merge with the background and are difficult to isolate.  If I use selection brush and the refine,it is not giving me the desired result. If I use a pen tool, select and then change the background then there are fringes appearing.  In case of the dog, I just want a bit of the fur, so that it doesnt look artificial. In case of the girl on the chair, I just want the best way to isolate and select the chair. I just want some advise and then I can take it from there. Please help me out. 

[vpkumar]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:10 PM, Granddaddy said:

There are many tutorials on making difficult selections, especially around furry edged animals or human hair. It would help if we knew what you considered "seeing all the tutorials" before we point you to others. Have you watched tutorials by several other authors besides the official Affinity tutorials? 

Yes please I have watched tutorials by many authors, By Oliver and also by affinity revolution etc. I just needed some advise and reference please.

[firstdefence]

Ok we call those images "out of focus" so when the images were taken they were not focused correctly so you get that blurred/fuzzy effect.

You could try using the soft edges and snap to edges options in the Selection Brush Tools context menu

But whatever you select will look a bit odd because it's not in focus.

[NotMyFault]

A way to help doing selection is to copy the original image, and then use tone map persona, set local contrast to maximum, set compression to zero. This will boost contrast, and helps doing selections.

you may use de-noise, regular contrast and additional tweaks.

then, make the selection on this helper layer, but switch to the actual original layer to create a mask, and deactivate the helper layer.

I would use the selection brush, with hard edges, do not refine. Instead, use selection->feather and smooth with small values 1-4 px to get a nice edge of the selection.

[vpkumar]

5 hours ago, firstdefence said:

Ok we call those images "out of focus" so when the images were taken they were not focused correctly so you get that blurred/fuzzy effect.

You could try using the soft edges and snap to edges options in the Selection Brush Tools context menu

But whatever you select will look a bit odd because it's not in focus.

Thanks Firstdefense. Yes the original photo is out of focus. Taken with a cheap camera. I have to do the best I can. You have done quite a good job.  How did you create the shadows. It looks great.

[vpkumar]

1 hour ago, NotMyFault said:

A way to help doing selection is to copy the original image, and then use tone map persona, set local contrast to maximum, set compression to zero. This will boost contrast, and helps doing selections.

you may use de-noise, regular contrast and additional tweaks.

then, make the selection on this helper layer, but switch to the actual original layer to create a mask, and deactivate the helper layer.

I would use the selection brush, with hard edges, do not refine. Instead, use selection->feather and smooth with small values 1-4 px to get a nice edge of the selection.

You have suggested quite an advance technique. I will try it out. I will post once done. Thanks you very much. 

[firstdefence]

The shadow was made by creating a pixel layer and brushing with a black brush, I dropped the opacity of the pixel layer to about 65% then used the smudge brush to pull the shadow long. A fairly simple technique once you get the hang of it. 

[vpkumar]

18 minutes ago, firstdefence said:

The shadow was made by creating a pixel layer and brushing with a black brush, I dropped the opacity of the pixel layer to about 65% then used the smudge brush to pull the shadow long. A fairly simple technique once you get the hang of it. 

Thanks for the tip.

[Granddaddy]

13 hours ago, vpkumar said:

What I meant by furry edge is that the edges merge with the background and are difficult to isolate.  If I use selection brush and the refine,it is not giving me the desired result. If I use a pen tool, select and then change the background then there are fringes appearing. 

I have extracted people from complex backgrounds including men wearing black trousers and black shoes against a black dance floor and a very dark wall behind them. I then put the extracted subject on a studio-style  background. I've always been pleased with my results for family photo use, printing as large as 13" x 19" prints.

In every case, I have found it necessary to do quite a bit of touch up work around the subject being extracted. I paint on the mask to either hide part of the background or to reveal more of the subject that automated tools miss. Often there is leakage manifesting as streaks or fuzzies crossing the edge of the subject from one side to the other that has to be cleaned up.

Sometimes there can be a halo around parts of the subject, especially around hair. Visibility of the halo depends on the background color, which is why it is useful to use various colored backgrounds to reveal such problems when cleaning up edges. Sometimes the color of the final background I make is somewhat dictated by the problems I find with the extraction.

Most if not all tutorials I've seen show how to extract a sharply focused subject photographed against a high-contrast color background. These are quite trivial once you learn how to use the tools. The samples are unlike any photo I've ever had to work with.

What tutorials never seem to show is how to refine a subject extracted from pictures filled with complicating features such as chairs, tables, furniture, carpet, tiled floors, doorways,  windows, lamps, bushes, trees, and people. In other words, they don't show how to extract a person from a typical, low-quality snapshot such as you are working with. 

I have come to expect to do quite a bit of handwork on both sides of the edges of the subject after using the initial selection tools and refinement tool provided by APhoto. It just takes practice and patience. It's the one thing I use my graphics tablet for as the mouse can be exhausting for such fine, repetitive work.