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WHY is AD2 changing the orientation of my presets????


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Win10/AD2

I HAD all my Presets set to either Landscape or Portrait - I entered the correct dimensions - WHY is AD2 Changing them??? 

Whose brainchild was that??? How do I disable that feature??? 

I just want to scream: IT'S A PRESET!! THE POINT OF PRESET IS THAT IT'S PRESET SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT. 

 

Windows 10 | Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher | Super Power: ADHD | Instagram - Twitter | Code: HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, Node, Lua, Kodular,  Stencyl & Unreal

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Orientation is not an attribute of a Preset, in the way Serif organizes things in the V2 Affinity applications. What matters is the dimensions, and you choose the orientation separately, at the top of the list as you showed in your video.

And as far as I know you cannot disable this. It's just the way they work.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Just now, walt.farrell said:

You have selected Portrait at the top of the list, so that's what you get.

Orientation is not an attribute of a Preset, and as far as I know you can't have (for example)) both an 8.5x11 preset and an 11x8.5 preset. I think you have only one of them, and you choose an orientation to decide how it will look.

And as far as I know you cannot disable this. It's just the way they work.

Thank you for your response, 

Orientation was a feature of Preset - in AD1. That's kind of the point of Preset. It's all Preset. 

I didn't have to select Portrait or Landscape in AD1 - My Presets were just that - Preset.  

There has to be a way to deactivate something so mindlessly pointless.  

Windows 10 | Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher | Super Power: ADHD | Instagram - Twitter | Code: HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, Node, Lua, Kodular,  Stencyl & Unreal

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8 minutes ago, edee said:

There has to be a way to deactivate something so mindlessly pointless.  

There isn't. Feel free to post a Feature Request in the Feedback forum, or agree with an existing one.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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33 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

There isn't. Feel free to post a Feature Request in the Feedback forum, or agree with an existing one.

That's not a Feature Request, that's a bug report. 
I'll create the bug report next. 

Windows 10 | Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher | Super Power: ADHD | Instagram - Twitter | Code: HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, Node, Lua, Kodular,  Stencyl & Unreal

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10 minutes ago, edee said:

That's not a Feature Request, that's a bug report. 
I'll create the bug report next. 

If it's working the way it's designed (as it is) they're unlikely to accept it as a big report. You might also check the Help. If it's documented as working this way, that's another strike against it being a bug.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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I agree that this is intended behavior - orientation is not part of the Preset. The Preset defines only the parameters of the document - its dimensions, margins, color format and profile, but not its orientation.
By the way, it would be quite impractical to have two different presets for a completely identical document, just because both orientations would have to be defined.

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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1 minute ago, Pšenda said:

By the way, it would be quite impractical to have two different presets for a completely identical document, just because both orientations would have to be defined.

I don't have two different presets for identical documents. I have one for Landscape and one for Portrait. Which makes sense for Preset documents. They are PreSet for Landscape and for Portrait.
It's absurd that someone put in a feature that completely changes Preset documents. If it worked fine in AD1 - why change it? 

Windows 10 | Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher | Super Power: ADHD | Instagram - Twitter | Code: HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, Node, Lua, Kodular,  Stencyl & Unreal

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2 minutes ago, edee said:

why change it? 

I think it was to reduce the number of Presets users need to define. Intended workflow: select the orientation you need, then pick the size.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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3 minutes ago, edee said:

I don't have two different presets for identical documents. I have one for Landscape and one for Portrait.

So you have "two" presets for one completely "identical document". A4 paper is still A4 paper whether it is oriented landscape or portrait.

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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7 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

So you have "two" presets for one completely "identical document". A4 paper is still A4 paper whether it is oriented landscape or portrait.

@Pšenda

I don't think you get the idea behind Preset. Preset means it doesn't change. It's Preset the way you want it. Now the presets changes to whatever whenever. 

Windows 10 | Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher | Super Power: ADHD | Instagram - Twitter | Code: HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, Node, Lua, Kodular,  Stencyl & Unreal

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Edee, what you don't get if you have an object of a specific size, they remain the same when you rotate it 90 deg.

In the New Document/Preset dialog, there's a toggle button for Landscape/Portrait. Type in the dimensions of your document, create the preset. Now when you use it next, before opening the document, toggle the orientation. Oh you can do this through the Document Setup dialog once you have opened your new document.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand this? Don't want to admit to being wrong? I think so... 🙄

Affinity Photo 2.4..; Affinity Designer 2.4..; Affinity Publisher 2.4..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD

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@Ron P.

Why create another step? It worked Perfect the way it was in AD1. 
I'm not wrong. Making them change, means they are no longer preset. 

BUT because they created an intentional bug, I figured I'd be forced to use Templates. Except Templates doesn't give you examples. It just shows blank boxes or blank lists. It makes no sense. 

image.png.bd817cdf01656aec2c19a59d365d0d53.png

image.png.3df7c8fe5e26a48fc780a1339b888c03.png

 

Windows 10 | Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher | Super Power: ADHD | Instagram - Twitter | Code: HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, Node, Lua, Kodular,  Stencyl & Unreal

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It's the same in V1. It's so easy, just create your preset. Then you can use it in either orientation. There's no need for the same size/resolution in duplicate or more, when they have one little button to click to change the orientation.

 

Affinity Photo 2.4..; Affinity Designer 2.4..; Affinity Publisher 2.4..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD

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I had 1 button. That's the thing. I opened AD1, Held down ctrl and tapped N and I got New Documents. and then I Just Clicked That One Button. 
Now I have to click 2 buttons. I have to click the preset and Then I have to click the Landscape or Portrait, because AD2 suddently went stupid and doesn't know if it should be Landscape or Portrait
Now I have to do More than I did Before. And I have to think about it Every time. Which means I'm going to forget and have to close and reopen it again. 
I can see doing All the Others, but Not the Preset. The Present shouldn't have that option. 

 

image.png.12511b4cc82ac497a03445630baaf728.png

Windows 10 | Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher | Super Power: ADHD | Instagram - Twitter | Code: HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, Node, Lua, Kodular,  Stencyl & Unreal

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39 minutes ago, edee said:

Preset means it doesn't change. It's Preset the way you want it.

I agree with that.
Saving page orientation with the preset is a completely logical thing: It's an attribute.
This "reinvetion of the wheel" in v2 annoys me.

In v1 I was using the "" and "|" characters in preset names to mark their orientation, and for me it worked perfectlyade1_page_presets_orientation.png.9dd622f0eba36a5d3cf603185903f981.png:

 

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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3 minutes ago, loukash said:

In v1 I was using the "" and "|" characters in preset names to mark their orientation, and for me it worked perfectly

And in V1, some of us were annoyed that "icons" for the layouts were all landscape, rather than properly showing the actual document orientation.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Just now, walt.farrell said:

And in V1, some of us were annoyed that "icons" for the layouts were all landscape, rather than properly showing the actual document orientation.

So was I. Hence my "—" and "|" workaround. :P 
Cosmetics schmosmetics.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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Serif decided not to hire user experience specialists - hence the incredible amount of posts about accessibility and usability in v2. And more! They don't seem to have any real knowledge about user workflows - or a professional network. Hence the panic development of MSI installers. So much for being "ahead of the game". No, in the back of a cave.

That aside - they could repair this flawed design a bit with a checkbox in the layout tab: lock orientation. Nasty workaround, but would work for now. 

Or, they could hire a couple of... you know... and get it right.

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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9 hours ago, loukash said:

In v1 I was using the "" and "|" characters in preset names to mark their orientation, and for me it worked perfectly

But then you needed "two" different presets for "one" medium (A5 CMYK) (see your screenshot A5-CMYK and A5|CMYK), which is unnecessary and complicated for many of us - if I want to modify the medium preset (for example, modify parameters Bleed), so I have to edit them in duplicate (I mustn't forget to edit the same parameters in two different presets). It simply shouldn't be done this way (duplicated), and that's why I'm not surprised, on the contrary, I thank him that Serif made this change. However, I think that in many situations it can be beneficial to have the document orientation "attribute" (not parameter) as part of the preference. Therefore, it would be appropriate for the user to be able to select/choose if the preset is created without an orientation definition, or if it is specific to only one type of orientation.

P.S. I think the requirement to define the orientation as part of the Preset will depend mainly on the type of media the user is working with. If you are working with a print medium (A4 paper,...) that is used in both orientations, a preset without orientation makes sense and is very beneficial - only one preset is maintained for one medium. However, if you are working with documents for display on a monitor/web, where the orientation is mainly landscape, then the orientation as part of the preset makes sense.

Edited by Pšenda

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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43 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

But then you needed "two" different presets for "one" medium

And that's exactly what I want.
(Look, I'm doing DTP for over 30 years, so by now I feel I'm mature enough to know what I want, and have my valid reason to do so… ;))

45 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

it would be appropriate for the user to be able to select/choose if the preset is created without an orientation definition, or if it is specific to only one type of orientation.

That's would be ideal.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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A la Française, à l'Italienne.
Même format, orientation différente.
Existe-t-il un feuille A4 à la Française et une feuille A4 à l'italienne ? Ou est-ce la même !?

Toujours pas !
Windows 10 Pro 21H2 - Intel Core i7-3630QM CPU @ 2.40GHz - 16 Gb Ram - GeForce GT 650M - Intel HD 4000
Affinity Photo | Affinity Designer | Affinity Publisher | 2

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6 hours ago, Pšenda said:

But then you needed "two" different presets for "one" medium (A5 CMYK) (see your screenshot A5-CMYK and A5|CMYK), which is unnecessary and complicated for many of us - if I want to modify the medium preset (for example, modify parameters Bleed), so I have to edit them in duplicate (I mustn't forget to edit the same parameters in two different presets). It simply shouldn't be done this way (duplicated), and that's why I'm not surprised, on the contrary, I thank him that Serif made this change. However, I think that in many situations it can be beneficial to have the document orientation "attribute" (not parameter) as part of the preference. Therefore, it would be appropriate for the user to be able to select/choose if the preset is created without an orientation definition, or if it is specific to only one type of orientation.

P.S. I think the requirement to define the orientation as part of the Preset will depend mainly on the type of media the user is working with. If you are working with a print medium (A4 paper,...) that is used in both orientations, a preset without orientation makes sense and is very beneficial - only one preset is maintained for one medium. However, if you are working with documents for display on a monitor/web, where the orientation is mainly landscape, then the orientation as part of the preset makes sense.

@Pšenda

I Don't Need 2 presets. I need it to be Preset the Way I Set It. 

For example - my preset for a simple screenshot is Always 1366x768 landscape. It will Never Be portriat- Never. See that is 1 Preset. 

BUT NOW I have to remember to click landscape every time I want to use that ONE preset. It's No Longer Preset!! If it were Preset it would Always be 1366x768 landscape.

Yes, I did have presets for landscape and portriat size for paper - So what? Regardless - it is Not Preset if the Preset changes between landscape and portriat. 

Windows 10 | Affinity Designer/Photo/Publisher | Super Power: ADHD | Instagram - Twitter | Code: HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, Node, Lua, Kodular,  Stencyl & Unreal

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19 hours ago, edee said:

I HAD all my Presets set to either Landscape or Portrait - I entered the correct dimensions - WHY is AD2 Changing them??? 

I have to agree with this complaint. With the moving of the Landscape / Portrait buttons out of the preset area of the New document section's actual Preset definition we took a step backwards. There is a difference, and it is important.

If you are a photographer then just take your camera and turn off the automatic rotation detection so all the images will be regarded as having landscape orientation regardless of whether or not they are. Do this for a few months and tell me that it doesn't bug the [expletive deleted] out of you that the portrait photos are now needing to be manually rotated.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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