Old V1 users being asked to pay EXACTLY the same for V2 new users? NOT COOL.

[Karmamole]

I am very disappointed! The whole premise and sales pitch of Affinity was that we wouldn't have to keep paying for using the apps, that it was a one-time payment, but now all they need to do to get us to pay again is to add a version number to the apps, and viola, we have to pay again! It sort of defeats the whole purpose.

Not only that, which, fine - maybe after a few years is forgivable, but the fact that existing users of V1 don't get their own major discounts on the V2 of the affinity apps is insane. Sure, there's a 40% 'discount' - but that applies to EVERYBODY - even absolutely new users to the apps, and I'm not seeing any special upgrade pricing for existing users, so basically, loyal customers are getting absolutely NO recognition or favors whatsoever. 

Just to add insult to injury. 

Why should I, a supporter from DAY 1, pay EXACTLY the same for V2 (40% discount, bah!) as new users just coming to Affinity? 

Sorry, but people who think this okay are just gluttons for punishment and might as well just go over to Adobe Creative Cloud where they can get fleeced regularly. 

VERY disappointed.

And don't tell me about the free packs which they finally decided to give to old V1 users as a bonus. We should be offered an upgrade path that's far cheaper than the discount new users are getting for V2. 

[Artsketch]

The simplest solution would have been to add an IN APP button for discounted purchase of the new features to V1. New customers would have been able to buy the apps at the new price. Just like others do, despite app stores. Instead of disappointing some loyal customers, or even making them enemies. Unwise marketing.

[NewInBoston]

58 minutes ago, Artsketch said:

The simplest solution would have been to add an IN APP button for discounted purchase of the new features to V1. New customers would have been able to buy the apps at the new price. Just like others do, despite app stores. Instead of disappointing some loyal customers, or even making them enemies. Unwise marketing.

Ash posted a response to the in app purchase critique which I find more than reasonable. Did you happen to read it? Here is a link to the post.

 

[Artsketch]

13 minutes ago, NewInBoston said:

Ash posted a response to the in app purchase critique

This does not convince me.

[Artsketch]

Without the 40%, it's a bit overpriced. The price was chosen to be able to offer regular discounts. I am sure we will see a new offer soon, if the current one is not extended beyond the 14th. Everyone expected that V2 will be a paid upgrade, not a full paid new version.

 

[RichardMH]

Capture One is also going through this. Amongst other things in their Black Friday sale it was cheaper for new users to purchase than for existing users to upgrade.

[Karmamole]

23 minutes ago, RichardMH said:

Capture One is also going through this. Amongst other things in their Black Friday sale it was cheaper for new users to purchase than for existing users to upgrade.

This is EXACTLY the same sort of thing that made me stop being a DXO customer. They gave better prices for new users than they did for upgrading ones. It was literally cheaper to make a new account and get their new software than to upgrade my existing software. Absolutely ridiculous and insulting. Never used their apps ever again.

[krikor]

If you look at the price of Adobe products, this is extremely reasonable. I prefer to pay for a new version (if I need to) after almost three years of using v1 than being trapped in a milking adobe system, which I can't even afford at the moment (and will never as my income doesn't come from graphic work). For 99 dollars, I get the three apps for my computer and iPad. Make the math of how much this would cost you with adobe at 55$ a month... Who cares if other people get the same discount, it is good for everyone, and I'm happy for them if they discover a fair alternative to Adobe. Those discussions are sterile, and it seems arrogant to think that using an app that you paid 50 dollars or less for many years entitles you to upgrade to a new major version with forthcoming functionality for almost nothing. The equivalent of 2 months of adobe is the price I paid for a new version.

 

[fde101]

11 hours ago, Artsketch said:

Everyone expected that V2 will be a paid upgrade, not a full paid new version.

Then "everyone" was not paying attention, as Serif told us several times over the years that this would happen, and a handful of forum users who are not even Serif employees even expressed this over several years before the v2 release.

They are not unique in this either, as there is not really a "good" way to handle paid upgrades on the various app stores, and I have seen several apps require that major versions be purchased separately, without offering upgrade pricing.  At the price point of the Affinity suite (even the newer price point) and given the amount of time between major releases (if the v1-v2 gap is even close to indicative) this is hardly anything to complain about.

 

 

Another clarification from after the release of v2:

 

[Corgi]

1 hour ago, A_B_C said:

It starts to make sense only later, when you introduce time considerations. To me, the only aspect in Serif’s approach to upgrade pricing that seemed slightly unfair was the initial lack of a grace period for customers who had just purchased a version 1 license when version 2 was released.

To me, the "recently purchased v1" time consideration is, as you say, the strongest rationale for feeling that the upgrade pricing is unfair.

The other consideration, which is, "other software vendors offer special upgrade pricing" is a factor (though less compelling). To me, it's natural human behavior that people who routinely see other vendors offer upgrade pricing which is lower than new-user pricing will expect similar behavior from other vendors, as a bonus for their prior investment, loyalty, testing/bug reporting, and advocacy for their product. That's how competitors such as Corel does it, and how Adobe did it back in pre-subscription days. These expectations are liable to lead to disappointment if the precedent isn't followed, no matter what the price is. 

But this isn't a zero-sum game, and I can also see how Serif's pricing makes sense (though not to recent v1 purchasers) to people who don't have the expectation of a price differential for upgraders. And that's perfectly fine.

[krikor]

1 hour ago, Corgi said:

To me, the "recently purchased v1" time consideration is, as you say, the strongest rationale for feeling that the upgrade pricing is unfair.

The other consideration, which is, "other software vendors offer special upgrade pricing" is a factor (though less compelling). To me, it's natural human behavior that people who routinely see other vendors offer upgrade pricing which is lower than new-user pricing will expect similar behavior from other vendors, as a bonus for their prior investment, loyalty, testing/bug reporting, and advocacy for their product. That's how competitors such as Corel does it, and how Adobe did it back in pre-subscription days. These expectations are liable to lead to disappointment if the precedent isn't followed, no matter what the price is. 

But this isn't a zero-sum game, and I can also see how Serif's pricing makes sense (though not to recent v1 purchasers) to people who don't have the expectation of a price differential for upgraders. And that's perfectly fine.

Still adobe were selling photoshop for around 500€...

[NewInBoston]

16 hours ago, Artsketch said:

This does not convince me.

Which part? The Apple ToS (real), or something else?

[big smile]

I think people are looking at pricing the wrong way. The 40% discount is super generous, more generous than a lot of upgrade pricing from other companies. They didn’t have a way to make it available to only V1 customers, so they made it available to everyone. So what's the problem? Everybody wins!

And for those who recently purchased V1. Yes, that does sting. But it takes 5 seconds of searching to see that Serif always give their best prices in their November event. They have done this for the last 5 years. And 5 seconds of searching shows that there hasn't been any new beta for over a year, which is a good sign that a new version was coming. So if getting a good price was important, then it doesn't seem wise to buy until November, which is when V2 became available. 

[Patrick Connor]

@Karmamole

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums  

On 12/7/2022 at 8:44 PM, Karmamole said:

Why should I, a supporter from DAY 1, pay EXACTLY the same for V2 (40% discount, bah!) as new users just coming to Affinity? 

Because that is what we (Serif) decided to do. The Prodigal Son parable may be relevant here. A single price for launch for all users, other than those who bought in the 2-3 months before launch who received email with links with further discounts, including some who got free upgrades for very recent purchases.

Sorry you think that your 6 years of use was not good enough value, but you can continue to use it at no extra cost.

To ALL others here, PLEASE do not argue with these users whose views on our pricing are valid whether you agree with them or not. It is NOT for you to justify our marketing decisions, and is leading to arguments over and over which do not make anyone feel any different. Please stop engaging on Serif's behalf it is NOT what we want. Let them express their opinions, thanks. Just Stop, feedback is for Serif not for you

[Patrick Connor]

I have decided to hide most of the posts above attempting to justify Serif's position, and do not expect those users to post them again. Please concentrate on supporting customers with the software use and NOT with marketing feedback

[Karmamole]

40 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

@Karmamole

Because that is what Serif decided to do. 

Don't you mean because that's what 'you' decided to do? Why refer to Serif as though you're not involved when your message then makes it clear you're with Serif? 

And 'because that's what we decided to do' - is not at all how any company representative should be speaking to any existing customers.

That's how children speak. 

[Patrick Connor]

27 minutes ago, Karmamole said:

Why refer to Serif as though you're not involved when your message then makes it clear you're with Serif?

I am not involved in pricing decisions, but as a Serif representative I thought it went without saying that that my Serif badge means collective responsibility, so I agree, and I have edited my post.

Also it was to underline that the previous responses in the thread were not from Serif

[Artsketch]

It is what it is. Let's focus on making V2 even better

[MaartenTummers]

5 hours ago, Corgi said:

To me, the "recently purchased v1" time consideration is, as you say, the strongest rationale for feeling that the upgrade pricing is unfair.

The other consideration, which is, "other software vendors offer special upgrade pricing" is a factor (though less compelling). To me, it's natural human behavior that people who routinely see other vendors offer upgrade pricing which is lower than new-user pricing will expect similar behavior from other vendors, as a bonus for their prior investment, loyalty, testing/bug reporting, and advocacy for their product. That's how competitors such as Corel does it, and how Adobe did it back in pre-subscription days. These expectations are liable to lead to disappointment if the precedent isn't followed, no matter what the price is. 

But this isn't a zero-sum game, and I can also see how Serif's pricing makes sense (though not to recent v1 purchasers) to people who don't have the expectation of a price differential for upgraders. And that's perfectly fine.

The grace period is there by releasing V2.0 without it being FLOODED with new sick features that you need to have NOW!! People who bought in the affinity infrastructure long time ago will upgrade right now, others still have some time to get their moneys worth out of v1. The notice is out => V2.0 is where new features will be added. I feel there is some sort of graceperiod by releasing v2 the way they did tbh.

[NewInBoston]

31 minutes ago, Artsketch said:

It is what it is. Let's focus on making V2 even better

Well met, let’s keep creating. 

[Karmamole]

2 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

I am not involved in pricing decisions, but as a Serif representative I thought it went without saying that that my Serif badge means collective responsibility, so I agree, and I have edited my post.

Also it was to underline that the previous responses in the thread were not from Serif

Well, thanks for clarifying your post, but again, 'because that's what we decided to do' is not how a company addresses customer grievances. It's non-explanatory and condescending. Might as well just release a new V3 next year, charge us again, and say 'because that's what we decided to do'.

[A_B_C]

Well, I’m not sure whether anyone who voiced their understanding for Serif’s pricing policy in this thread considered themselves to be advocates on Serif’s behalf, Patrick. I rather had the impression that users, myself included, were just trying to put things in perspective, which should be understood as a kind of feedback as well. But I understand that such discussions tend to repeat themselves, so I’m fine with the idea of moving on. 🙂

[Pšenda]

6 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

Please concentrate on supporting customers with the software use and NOT with marketing feedback

Since you mention here what the forum users should focus on, I will allow one feedback: I was quite surprised that you did not use the version 2 release for thanks to the forum users who repeatedly help and advise beginners here, write and discuss requests for improve applications, and record detected bugs found in applications. These users are certainly a significant asset for the further development of applications and their marketing (what could be better than a satisfied customer who finds quick help here).

[Patrick Connor]

12 hours ago, Pšenda said:

Since you mention here what the forum users should focus on, I will allow one feedback: I was quite surprised that you did not use the version 2 release for thanks to the forum users who repeatedly help and advise beginners here, write and discuss requests for improve applications, and record detected bugs found in applications. These users are certainly a significant asset for the further development of applications and their marketing (what could be better than a satisfied customer who finds quick help here).

Well now I feel awful.... probably rightly so. We have built up to this release for soooo long and tried to have all bases covered about the launch. In so many meetings I would say things like

"don't forget our forum regulars, they are doing an enormous amount of work on our behalf. We must think about the information that they have and how any changes to our processes will be perceived, and understood".

I am extremely aware of how much time and effort are given "for free" by those who come here week in and week out just to share information and help others. We could not do any of this without them/you and these forums would not work without customer participation. .......and now to have it (correctly) pointed out that we haven't really said that out loud really struck home. We in no way take you for granted, and my comment above was really just trying to calm things down in every thread like this, rather than criticizing those participating in this specific one, and I likely failed to say enough about how everything else done by the regulars is very much appreciated. This thread is really not the place for that (not completely sure where is), but I wanted to respond to your post with a mea culpa.

[big smile]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:46 PM, Patrick Connor said:

To ALL others here, PLEASE do not argue with these users whose views on our pricing are valid whether you agree with them or not. It is NOT for you to justify our marketing decisions, and is leading to arguments over and over which do not make anyone feel any different. Please stop engaging on Serif's behalf it is NOT what we want. Let them express their opinions, thanks. Just Stop, feedback is for Serif not for you

I 100% respect this and will not challenge it any way. However, negative feedback does stand out more. So I hope when reviewing the feedback, Serif will take into account those customers that are happy with pricing. I'd hate for Serif to make changes to appease those that are unhappy, and in the process alienate those who were happy with how the pricing was handled.