V2 AD Is there a way to tell if a layer is made of multiple curves?

[Gear maker]

In V2 AD how can we tell if a layer is made up of a single curve or multiples?  In the example below there is a mix.  If I had hundreds/thousands of layers how would I be able to distinguish between a Curve and Curves? 

I always keep layers as a Curve unless there is a need to tie multiple layers together.  So that if I click on an object in my drawing and make a change I know only that one piece will be affected.  Other objects in a Curves might be way out of my view in my canvas.

Also it gives me a clue that a layer is the result of a boolean operation.  I guess all operations could be done as a compound so they are distinguishable.

[R C-R]

37 minutes ago, Gear maker said:

In V2 AD how can we tell if a layer is made up of a single curve or multiples?

For all the V2 apps, it seems like if you don't name a layer containing multiple curves, it's more or less like V1 & shows it as a Curves layer, but if you give it a name the only way to tell for sure that is to select it with the Move Tool & check the context toolbar, where it will show the name followed by "(Curves)" or to check what the bounding box covers. Sometimes, it will be obvious from the layer thumbnail but not always.

I think it was better in V1.

[Gear maker]

39 minutes ago, R C-R said:

For all the V2 apps, it seems like if you don't name a layer containing multiple curves, it's more or less like V1 & shows it as a Curves layer, but if you give it a name the only way to tell for sure that is to select it with the Move Tool & check the context toolbar, where it will show the name followed by "(Curves)" or to check what the bounding box covers. Sometimes, it will be obvious from the layer thumbnail but not always.

I think it was better in V1.

The big push from Affinity and most drawing classes is to NAME THE LAYERS so you can identify them.  Now AD is trying to get us to stop naming the layers so we can tell what's in them.  What's up with that!?  Yes V1 was much better for that.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Gear maker said:

Now AD is trying to get us to stop naming the layers so we can tell what's in them.

I don't think they are trying to do that. It is just an unfortunate consequence of changing what can be displayed in the Layers panel. I think the idea was that in V1 if there was a name & the panel wasn't very wide, the curve type parenthetical suffix indicator would not be visible & some of the name might not be visible, so they changed that so the optional little layer type icon indicator would leave more space for the name. 

So maybe if they just changed the icon for a curves layer to something other than the same as for a curve layer, it would be better?

[Gear maker]

12 minutes ago, R C-R said:

So maybe if they just changed the icon for a curves layer to something other than the same as for a curve layer, it would be better?

I like that.  In V1 I just got used to using short names so the Curve/Curves didn't run off the screen.

[R C-R]

1 minute ago, Gear maker said:

In V1 I just got used to using short names so the Curve/Curves didn't run off the screen.

But even if the names are short, if they are deeply nested there won't be enough room for most of the name.

I do not think there is any good way to avoid this.

[Gear maker]

9 minutes ago, R C-R said:

But even if the names are short, if they are deeply nested there won't be enough room for most of the name.

Good point.

[Pšenda]

2 hours ago, Gear maker said:

In V2 AD how can we tell if a layer is made up of a single curve or multiples?

Just hover the mouse over the icon (although the difference in icons would definitely be nice).

 

35 minutes ago, Gear maker said:

The big push from Affinity and most drawing classes is to NAME THE LAYERS so you can identify them.  Now AD is trying to get us to stop naming the layers so we can tell what's in them.  What's up with that!?  Yes V1 was much better for that.

I don't understand, why V2 should stop to naming layers - on the contrary. The current method finally respects the purpose for which "naming" the layer is intended, i.e. to organize the layers in the layers stack. The description of the "type" layer certainly did not serve to organize the layers, and by mixing it into the naming of the layer in V1, it only made it more complicated and confusing. Using icons is definitely a better way.

[R C-R]

4 hours ago, Pšenda said:

Just hover the mouse over the icon (although the difference in icons would definitely be nice).

That requires moving the pointer over the layer in the Layers panel & waiting for the tooltip to appear ... assuming tooltips have not been disabled by setting the delay to never. Was hoping for an at-a-glance visual indicator of some kind that doesn't require moving the pointer into the Layers panel. A different icon type would help with that, assuming it was distinctive enough to tell it from the other layer type icons.

Of course, if Show Object Type is disabled in the Layers panel, perhaps to make more room for layer names, that won't help at all.

[walt.farrell]

6 hours ago, R C-R said:

Of course, if Show Object Type is disabled in the Layers panel, perhaps to make more room for layer names, that won't help at all.

I'm not near my computer right now, but I thought the tooltip would appear even with the icons turned off that way.

[thomaso]

The question does not have to be text or no text. While I can widen the panel in V1 to make the type visible the V2 icon solution can be more efficient regarding screen space.

Didn't they 'simply' forget (or ignore on purpose) the layer type "Curves" in the V2 method?
(and what about "Layer (Layer)", does this type not exist in V2 any more?)

Quote

Layer types

There are several types of layers that can be created; these are identified in the Layers panel with a unique icon, shown at the beginning of the layer entry.

Panel icon	Description
	Artboard—discrete design areas that can be sized to different page or mobile device sizes.
	Vector—used for placing vector objects into.
	Pixel—used for pixel-based editing (Pixel Persona).
	Shape—for geometric shapes created with shape tools.
	Compound—for non-destructive compound shapes created by Boolean operations.
	Curve—for open curves and closed shapes drawn with Pen Tool or Pencil Tool.
	Artistic Text—for scalable text.
	Frame Text—for story text contained within a frame.
	Path Text—for text that follows an open curve or a shape's outline.
	Shape Text—for text contained within a shape.
	Empty group—an empty group container for containing multiple objects as a single object.
	Mask—defines what content is hidden to reveal layers beneath.
	Image—self-contained placed images that retain the original image data including the colour profile.
	Linked/Embedded document—placed non-native documents (such as PDF, PSD, SVG, EPS) and native Affinity documents (afphoto, afdesign and afpub) files.
	Adjustment—used to correct or enhance a specific object, group, layer or the whole layer stack non-destructively.
	Symbol—the symbolised object shares its properties with other symbolised objects so edits across objects are simultaneous.

[Pšenda]

7 hours ago, R C-R said:

Of course, if Show Object Type is disabled in the Layers panel, perhaps to make more room for layer names, that won't help at all.

As Walt already writes, in the Windows version the hint/tooltip is displayed even if the icon is not displayed. Turning off the icon does not save any space - apparently also because the arrow for expanding the groups is also displayed in the same place.

[Pšenda]

36 minutes ago, thomaso said:

and what about "Layer (Layer)", does this type not exist in V2 any more?

[thomaso]

29 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

and what about "Layer (Layer)", does this type not exist in V2 any more?

Ah, thanks! This is listed in the Help as "Vector—used for placing vector objects into" (though it maycontain pixel only)

[Pšenda]

28 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Ah, thanks! This is listed in the Help as "Vector—used for placing vector objects into" (though it maycontain pixel only)

The description in the Help is not exactly precise and completely understandable 🙂

[R C-R]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I'm not near my computer right now, but I thought the tooltip would appear even with the icons turned off that way.

You are right -- even at max delay the tooltips do eventually appear but obviously it would be annoying to have to wait long for them to appear. I also noticed that if a layer is given a custom name, the tooltip just shows that name if I hover over the thumbnail instead of the layer type so to see the layer type I have to hover over where the type icon is or would appear to see that.

There must be a better way to show multiple curve layers but I do not know if there is any way that would work for everybody & all their workflows.

[R C-R]

49 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Ah, thanks! This is listed in the Help as "Vector—used for placing vector objects into" (though it maycontain pixel only)

I don't see the 'may' part so I assume that is something you added, right? FWIW, the only place I could find any reference to the Layer container type of layer was in the Create layers help topic:

 

This help topic does not make it clear that a "Layer" layer type is a container type of layer, sort of like a Group layer. The 'To create' section with the icon doesn't even show that what will be created is a capital L layer type.

[thomaso]

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

I don't see the 'may' part so I assume that is something you added, right?

Since Affinity is coded to possibly contain both types inside a "Layer (Layer)" – pixel AND vector –  the 'may' part is nothing I added, although the Help sounds different by naming it "vector" only without mentioning pixel.

[R C-R]

15 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Since Affinity is coded to possibly contain both types inside a "Layer (Layer)" – pixel AND vector –  the 'may' part is nothing I added, although the Help sounds different by naming it "vector" only without mentioning pixel.

Hmmm. Neither the help topic on my Mac nor the online version I saw included the 'may' part, just "Vector—used for placing vector objects into" without anything more than that. From https://affinity.help/designer2/English.lproj/pages/Layers/aboutLayers.html what I see there is this:

Do you see anything different from that, or maybe this is just a miscommunication of some sort about who added the 'may' part?

[thomaso]

2 hours ago, R C-R said:

Do you see anything different from that, or maybe this is just a miscommunication of some sort about who added the 'may' part?

As I copy/pasted like you and additionally wrote, the Help for "Layer Types" > Layer Layer does not mention "pixel" but "vector" only. But the app itself added the 'may' as feature, not text, by enabling the option for this layer to contain pixel.

Actually it to me does not matter who added it. It appears obvious that the Help is not unambiguous or complete, not only regarding this specific aspect of what object types 'may' be nested in a Layer layer.

[R C-R]

4 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Actually it to me does not matter who added it.

Didn't you add that yourself to this earlier post?

[thomaso]

31 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Didn't you add that yourself to this earlier post?

I don't understand what you want from me, nor why it matters so much for you. If nobody else edited my posts above they contain only text I have added, some written myself, some pasted from the Help. – However, I did not add the ability to Affinity that its Layer Layers may contain pixel.

[R C-R]

Just now, thomaso said:

I don't understand what you want from me, nor why it matters so much for you.

Not a big deal but it was just to reduce any possible confusion about what the help topic actually says vs. what you added in your reply. The way you wrote that reply did not make it completely clear how much was pasted straight from the topic & how much was your own contribution. 

[Pšenda]

12 minutes ago, R C-R said:

The way you wrote that reply did not make it completely clear how much was pasted straight from the topic & how much was your own contribution. 

Personally, I find it quite simple to understand - the quote from Help is in quotation marks, the added comment is in parentheses.

7 hours ago, thomaso said:

This is listed in the Help as "Vector—used for placing vector objects into" (though it maycontain pixel only)

I really don't see anything complicated about it.

[R C-R]

22 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

Personally, I find it quite simple to understand - the quote from Help is in quotation marks, the added comment is in parentheses.

It is a quirk of the English language that quotation marks in text passages can either mean that text is a direct quote or that the quoted text itself includes quotation marks. That's why you sometimes see "(without the quotes)" in replies about searching for stuff & why replies in this & several other forums includes the Quote item to set off quoted passages unambiguously 

Quote

like this