Disgusting pricing

[Twolane]

How long has luki1412 owned v1 of the product? I might have missed it somewhere.

[jhoey]

1 hour ago, debraspicher said:

That seems to be it. Serif clearly wants people to do the universal, even at a loss, probably because they want people to join the ecosystem and try the other programs (the ones they'd be missing otherwise).

Apple and most companies are doing the same thing. I don't know why this is a problem. It's a marketing strategy, and not manipulative at all. The choice is yours. They provide the software, you decide if you are interested or not. Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, none of these companies are forcing anyone to use their products. If you believe their  products are not worth your money, they can do nothing about that. They can't force you at all to invest.

How people miss this, is utterly astounding.

[Maksimus]

10 hours ago, luki1412 said:

Again, the universal license is a great deal. I am not talking about that.

Individual pricing is awful. I cant use ipad versions, I do not care that they are included. I have no use for Publisher either.

So my only option is to buy Photo and Designer V2 for 85+85 = 170€. I already paid for V1 which are 55+55 = 110€.

It's just a very bad deal compared to the universal license. I would consider it if I hadn't bought the V1 of the products.

Now it's just not worth it for me.

If the new prices are too high for you, then the solution is simple - do not buy. I don't think Serif will suddenly hear you and magically lower prices. They have already counted and decided.

Buy an Adobe subscription and stay on the subscription for a couple of years. Then you will understand exactly what is really "too expensive and not profitable".

P.S. You can just use the first version of Affinity.

[PaulEC]

I really don't understand why people get upset that Serif have increased the base prices of it's software, by a comparatively modest amount, over the original prices they were charging years ago.

Here in the UK (where Serif are based), and AFAIK in most of the world, costs of everything (energy, food, transport etc) have rocketed over the last few months. All business are having to contend with these price increases, not to mention increased labour costs, and are having to pass on some of this to their customers. Add to that the development costs for a new, improved product and it's hardly surprising that, like just about everything else, the cost of software has to increase!

One other point. With the deal Serif are currently offering, you are still saving money, even if you only want the suite for one OS!

[Pyanepsion]

@luki1412, You basically say that prices should never change (except, perhaps, your salary?) and that bundles should not be promoted.

You bought one of the three nice motorbikes a few years ago to a manufacturer and now he is offering three nice cars, each 50% more expensive than a motorbike. So you find it abnormal that if you buy all three cars at once, it costs you less than if you had bought the three motorbikes separately or all together in the past. Ha!

I'll let you in on a secret: if a client asks me to do the DTP for three 2-page sermons of the same layout in the same time, it costs them much less per page than a single 1-page sermon. Why do you think that is?

[StrixCZ]

12 hours ago, luki1412 said:

The universal license is making them less money per product. That is my point.

Well, it also makes some people (like me) buy the whole bundle instead of just one app (I originally wanted only Publisher) . I'm also an exclusive Windows user but the bundle price with the launch discount was just too good to miss (and I didn't care a bit about "paying for Mac versions that I wouldn't use" - I saw it more as Serif just releasing one bundle for everyone - I actually think that a vast majority of their users are either on Mac or Windows - not both).

Bottom line, I spent more money in the Serif store than I originally planned to - without feeling cheated at all (on the contrary). And I'm quite sure I'm not alone here. So this pricing model actually does make a lot of sense (even though it's obviously less convenient for people who really want just one app).

[PaulEC]

I think i's worth remembering that originally Serif developed the Affinity software for MAC, then Windows, then added iPad. Each of the apps was released at a different time (Designer, Photo then Publisher) over several years. This obviously made it a bit "messy" to offer deals on bundles that were fair to both new customers, and to those who purchased the apps separately as they were released. There have also been numerous complaints from people who use both MAC and Windows that they had to pay "twice" for the software. With the release of v2, all three apps are available on all three OS at the same time. Now Serif are offering a really good deal for all three apps on all three OS as a bundle, but still people find things to complain about! 

[fde101]

It is very common for a suite or bundle of things to be cheaper than the sum of the cost of all of the individual things, whether digital or physical.

[Twolane]

99 bucks for, uhh ... counts on fingers ... SEVEN! count 'em, 7 bits of software. I haven't used an Apple product since the Apple /// and the Lisa (heh. have I mentioned that before?) but I happily laid out the cash. Counts on fingers again ... THREE! count'em, 3 bits of software that I will use. That's like ... counts some more, does dividing by 3 fingers, sums something, err, maybe not ... 33 bucks a crack. Ya. That's it. I paid 33 bucks for three bits of software. When I bought v1 two years ago, I think I paid 27 bucks each. Now someone is pissed because they're paying 6 bucks more. Whiners gonna whine, I guess.

Is my math wrong? Did I count wrong? Did I miss a finger somewhere? Am I missing a finger?

So, basically, v2 is great value for money, notwithstanding two years of inflation and a 6 buck increase in price per unit.

If I might be so bold to suggest to the whiners and shiners: You might want to pick up the latest product at the sale price before December 14, because if you don't, we will all be subjected to a completely new and not unheard round of whining and shining.

That's all, folks.

[bayustudio]

yeah, a lower bundle price is very common and a good strategy to attract users to enter (and hopefully get locked) into the ecosystem.

with adobe, it even more extreme, like $20 for one app VS all 25+ apps for $55

[Twolane]

4 hours ago, bayustudio said:

with adobe, it even more extreme, like $20 for one app VS all 25+ apps for $55

Oh, I dunno. Isn't that like, for Photoshop for the first month x 12, and then after a year of those monthly prices it goes full price, whatever that silly number is? And then there's the Photography Plan, and the Creative Cloud Plan, and on and on.

I could be wrong, though. I've been wrong before. But not about purchasing the Affinity Trinity for a one-time payment of 33 bucks per x3. With the added bonus of the 4 Apple products thrown in for free. Whee.

Bonus: it's a one-time payment. Beat that, if anyone can! Talk about disgusting pricing. That's it right there, Affinity. Your plan can't be beat. And it's soooo disgusting! 😁

[Maksimus]

2 hours ago, Twolane said:

Bonus: it's a one-time payment. Beat that, if anyone can! Talk about disgusting pricing. That's it right there, Affinity. Your plan can't be beat. And it's soooo disgusting! 

Adobe's pricing policy is the world's evil. Greed. 😃

[thomasp]

19 hours ago, PaulEC said:

I really don't understand why people get upset that Serif have increased the base prices of it's software, by a comparatively modest amount, over the original prices they were charging years ago.

 

Original price that I paid for Designer and Photo (both Windows) was 39.99 Euros each (looks like this was the regular price back then) and a little under 33 Euros each for the Mac versions a while later (seems like those were discounted). This isn't dawn of time stuff either but rather end of 2018 for the most recent purchases.

Now, one major version later these same number of licenses - if purchased without discount and in the same fashion - would cost me a staggering 84.99 Euros each. Doesn't sound like a particularly modest increase to me. In fact I don't recall ever seeing 'my' softwares increase prices from one version to the next anywhere near these percentages unless the capabilities of the software were totally transformed. Here on the other hand it appears mainly the version number was changed - which is to say: where are the key new features, the slew of bugfixes and the amazing performance gains to make version 1 look like an oldtimer?

What it is is still small fries next to what single seat licenses of Photoshop and Illustrator would have cost before they went subscription. But then those two were shaping up more quickly and at a comparable 8 years of age were already more mature all around if memory serves.

 

[Maksimus]

6 hours ago, thomasp said:

Original price that I paid for Designer and Photo (both Windows) was 39.99 Euros each (looks like this was the regular price back then) and a little under 33 Euros each for the Mac versions a while later (seems like those were discounted). This isn't dawn of time stuff either but rather end of 2018 for the most recent purchases.

Now, one major version later these same number of licenses - if purchased without discount and in the same fashion - would cost me a staggering 84.99 Euros each. Doesn't sound like a particularly modest increase to me. In fact I don't recall ever seeing 'my' softwares increase prices from one version to the next anywhere near these percentages unless the capabilities of the software were totally transformed. Here on the other hand it appears mainly the version number was changed - which is to say: where are the key new features, the slew of bugfixes and the amazing performance gains to make version 1 look like an oldtimer?

What it is is still small fries next to what single seat licenses of Photoshop and Illustrator would have cost before they went subscription. But then those two were shaping up more quickly and at a comparable 8 years of age were already more mature all around if memory serves.

 

Now it remains to understand why you write all this and are indignant here ...

Do you really think that Serif will lower the cost and revise his policy?

I assure you that the prices will remain at the current level.

They have already made a decision and re-evaluated their products. You can write here as much as you like. It won't affect anything.

You need to be able to accept price changes calmly, or not to accept or buy updates and use the previous version. 

I personally don't see it as a problem to pay $100 extra after a few years of work and get access to all the Serif products I need for years to come.

Also consider inflation and price increases across the board. 

Serif needs money to expand and improve its products.  

It is not possible to collect enough of them only from new sales.

They need to monetize their current customer base as well.

I personally understand the logic and their behavior with prices... 🙄

[loukash]

9 hours ago, thomasp said:

end of 2018

9 hours ago, thomasp said:

Doesn't sound like a particularly modest increase to me.

Meanwhile, in a galaxy not far, far away but right here, right now:

• Brexit
• Euro devaluation
• inflation
• EU import VAT 

Now do your math again…  

[Twolane]

I just went to Serif through a Belgian server. Here's what I got, and it includes VAT:

Affinity V2 Universal License

For macOS, Windows & iPadOS

Was€199.99Now

€119.99

ONE-OFF PAYMENT | incl. VAT

Get Version 2 of Affinity Designer, Affinity Photo and Affinity Publisher on all operating systems, including iPad, for one low bundle price.

@ thomasp - If you don't buy before December 14, it would appear as though you'll pay 199.99 Euros. And that price doesn't mention VAT, so there's all that.

+++

The one-off pricing is as follows:

€84.99Now

€48.99

ONE-OFF PAYMENT | incl. VAT

 

@ thomasp - If you don't buy before December 14, it would appear as though you'll pay 84.99 Euros. And that price doesn't mention VAT, so there's all that.

[jhoey]

3 minutes ago, loukash said:

Meanwhile, in a galaxy not far, far away but right here, right now:

• Brexit
• Euro devaluation
• inflation
• EU import VAT 

Now do your math again…  

The world we live in is owned by people we have been brainwashed to call “the government”. To live peacefully here in this world—a world that was not created by any man, or body of men calling themselves the government—we are forced to share our hard earned money with “the government”, under the specious banner of taxes, or we are in danger of catching hell. All the things you have listed, are doings of these men you call “the government” or the elites or whatever name denoting their real character. The human beings who work at affinity, must survive in this world. They have bills to pay, families to take care of and must also survive. Nobody works to make a loss. Everyone works to make a profit. For the boss at affinity to maintain his profit, as well as pay his workers, pay for web hosting services to keep his website up, and also pay taxes to “the government”, he has no option but to increase the prices of his products. It’s the only option he has, and the only option which makes sense.

You might want to trace the problem you have to the root cause.

[loukash]

5 minutes ago, jhoey said:

we have been brainwashed

Let the nuttiest conspiracy theory contest begin!  

But not here in the forum.

Seriously: 
forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/guidelines

OK?
Thanks

[Twolane]

7 minutes ago, loukash said:

we have been brainwashed

I know I've been brainwashed. Brainwashed by Affinity's disgusting low prices, that is!!! I think I recall mentioning it in an earlier post.

[loukash]

1 hour ago, Twolane said:

Brainwashed by Affinity's disgusting low prices, that is!!!

Which reminded me that years ago, I made me a note in the MacOS "Notes.app", calculating my Adobe purchases over the years since 2003 until 2016. That was to figure out if an upgrade to CC is worth it. (Spoiler: It wasn't.) My note with the calculation is still there in the app, as I see right now:

Quote

Adobe costs [in CHF]

2003–2016:
(2145+404+310+435+435+245.2+245.2+245.2)/13/12

≈ CHF 29.00/month

 

CHF 29 a month for 13 years usage of Adobe products.

That was:

• Adobe "Design Collection" in 2003 = ID2, AI10, PS7, AC (v5 or 6 I guess?) = CHF 2145
• a few years later individual CS3 upgrades to each app above, which was cheaper than buying the CS bundle upgrade! = CHF 404+310+435+435
• and another few years later individual CS5.5 upgrades including a Black Friday discount! = CHF 245.2+245.2+245.2

Now, I have fully switched to Affinity by end of 2020, so my final Adobe costs calculation 2003–2020 is as follows:

(2145+404+310+435+435+245.2+245.2+245.2)/17/12 ≈ CHF 21.90/month

Fast forward to 2022 and what I have paid for Affinity v2 Universal License: "whopping" CHF 100 incl. VAT.
Estimated duration of usage until v3 might be released, let's say 3 years: 100/3/12 ≈ WHOPPING CHF 2.80 A MONTH!
That means I'll have to sacrifice at least two bottles of my beloved Pilsner Urquell each month! How can I possibly survive THAT?!  

Edited December 3, 2022 by loukash
typo

[Twolane]

3 hours ago, loukash said:

That means I'll have to sacrifice at least two bottles of my beloved Pilsner Urquell each month! How can I possibly survive THAT?!  

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do, what with that disgusting pricing for the beer! Maybe you can find the beer on a speshul somewhere. And don't forget VAT, either. (That's the VAT tax, not the beer vat!)

[loukash]

Just now, Twolane said:

that disgusting pricing for the beer!

I hear you. Only a few years ago, a 0.5 l bottle of Pilsner Urquell sold in Germany for €0.99. Now it's €1.29.
30%!
Disgusting!
Boycott Pilsen!

[Maksimus]

3 hours ago, loukash said:

Which reminded me that years ago, I made me a note in the MacOS "Notes.app", calculating my Adobe purchases over the years since 2003 until 2016. That was to figure out if an upgrade to CC is worth it. (Spoiler: It wasn't.) My note with the calculation is still there in the app, as I see right now:

CHF 29 a month for 13 years usage of Adobe products.

That was:

• Adobe "Design Collection" in 2003 = ID2, AI10, PS7, AC (v5 or 6 I guess?) = CHF 2145
• a few years later individual CS3 upgrades to each app above, which was cheaper than buying the CS bundle upgrade! = CHF 404+310+435+435
• and another few years later individual CS5.5 upgrades including a Black Friday discount! = CHF 245.2+245.2+245.2

Now, I have fully switched to Affinity by end of 2020, so my final Adobe costs calculation 2003–2020 is as follows:

(2145+404+310+435+435+245.2+245.2+245.2)/17/12 ≈ CHF 21.90/month

Fast forward to 2022 and what I have paid for Affinity v2 Universal License: "whopping" CHF 100 incl. VAT.
Estimated duration of usage until v3 might be released, let's say 3 years: 100/3/12 ≈ WHOPPING CHF 2.80 A MONTH!
That means I'll have to sacrifice at least two bottles of my beloved Pilsner Urquell each month! How can I possibly survive THAT?!  

A perfect example of Adobe's unprecedented greed. And how much more adequate are Serif's prices. But people never get enough. They want the software to be given away almost for free. Or even paid extra for using the program.

[_Th]

19 minutes ago, Maksimus said:

They want the software to be given away almost for free. Or even paid extra for using the program.

Yes. Yes we do. More free stuff now! 😜

 

[Maksimus]

11 minutes ago, _Th said:

Yes. Yes we do. More free stuff now! 😜

 

Well, to defeat Adobe - this is unlikely to succeed.  Too different weight categories.  

But to give them a substantial alternative, to make a better product at a lower price and force Adobe to rethink its pricing policy (make one-time licenses again) - this is what Serif can probably do.