Brush stabilization UX improvements

[Guest]

So, it took me AGES to find how to set the brush stabilization (rope or window) value in v2. In v1 you did everything through the rather annoying floating toolbar at the bottom of the screen, now these settings have been redistributed around the screen. In v2 to enable brush stabilization you select either 'rope' or 'window' from the top control bar, and to set the value for the brush stabilization feature you need to tap on the 'Width' setting icon on the bottom tool sliders on the left. Apparently you can tell these sliders have dual/toggle values because they have a little dot to the top right (or left) of the icon. Anyway, once you toggle with 'width' icon to either ('length' -> rope, or 'window' -> window) you can then set the desired stabilization value.

While I sort of understand the logic going on here, having the place where you enable that feature so far away from where you set the value for the feature is rather confusing. I wonder if the brush stabilization enable menu is even required, as what we're really talking about here is how much smoothing you want applied to your brush—which could just be a single value. This is the way Illustrator and Fresco do it (they call it 'smoothing'), and Procreate calls it 'stabilization/smoothing'— but despite the inherent complexity that may be present in the underlying brush settings, all that is exposed to the user is one, single value to adjust, "smoothing".

While I'm sure some folks will chime in with the inherent benefits of rope stabilization vs window stabilization (and vice-versa) I've always been somewhat at a loss to really differentiate between the two, and usually just set it to 'window' which gives me an experience that is not all that different from what I have now with Procreate, Fresco, and Illustrator[1].

So, to recap:

1. There is a significant spatial disconnect between the enable stabilization feature and where you set your desired value for it.
2. I'm not entirely sure users need to differentiate between window and rope stabilization techniques as what they are really trying to achieve is some way of smoothing their brush strokes.
3. Could the 'enable stabilization' menu at the top be removed completely by providing a single stabilization technique used within the application; probably something more like window stabilization as it's often closer to what users are already familiar with?
4. If the 'enable stabilization' menu is removed that would enable a single 'smoothing' slider value to be accessed exactly where it is now, which once you get used to it isn't a terrible idea, but unfortunately it's not entirely obvious either.
5. The user now has one single place to look for ways to change the brush smoothing settings and no longer needs to understand (or care about) the difference between rope stabilization or window stabilization.

[1] You could also make the smoothing/stabilization technique used an editable app wide preference, as I suspect most folks either use one or the other, and don't switch between them that often (if at all).

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Guest
Added note the the brush stabilization technique could be a preference setting.

[Ash]

I think I'd agree with that, perhaps we should just show the stabilisation slider at all times for relevant tools. Hitting the icon under the slider could toggle between Window and rope, but overall if you push it to 0 then stabilisation is effectively off. I don't think the length setting ever needs to be super accurate, so perhaps could be a shorter slider and no need to display value / manually enter it. We could look at it taking up a lot less space in that case so it can sit on its own while still having the other sliders available. Be nice to get rid of the stabiliser option in the context bar for sure.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ash said:

Hitting the icon under the slider could toggle between Window and rope…

It actually toggles between brush 'width', and either 'length' or 'window' depending on what the stabilization setting is set to 'rope' or 'window', so you couldn't use it to toggle between 'window' and 'rope'. Again, I'm not sure the distinction between rope and window stabilization is necessary, as what users are concerned with is the amount of 'smoothing' being applied to their brush strokes.

If you feel strongly that folks want to be able to choose between 'rope' and 'window' stabilization, make it a global setting in the app preferences. Personally, I would just go with window smoothing as that is more likely what most folks will be familiar with from other applications, and that would remove most of the friction with the smoothing UX.

[Ash]

Yeah sorry I was saying perhaps we could sort it so it is just it's own slider. Firstly so it's not hidden under width and secondly so it could toggle between the two.

Rope is far better for accurately drawing smooth curves, particularly when you want sharp edges because you can pause, let the rope dangle when you change course. Window is better for free flowing drawing...

[MoonaticDestiny]

19 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

In v1 you did everything through the rather annoying floating toolbar at the bottom of the screen

I disagree with you. It wasnt annoying. It was perfectly fine down there. The context toolbar in v1 was located at a reaching pencil distance and all your settings were there. EVERYTHING you needed was there.

Now, in v2, everything has been split and divided. I dont know why they did that. I really dont like it. Its bad design. Really bad design. Everything has been redistributed around the screen. You got things at the top. Things to the left. Icons that serif expects us to know. Sliders that take up UI space. Buttons within buttons. Unnecessary icons for the sliders. Lots of buttons at the top. Its just all bad. It literally feels like they took the v1 context toolbar, redistributed everything around the interface, and said, "You figure it out." Its a mess. 

Honestly, the context toolbar in v1 was better. A simple bar with everything you needed. Those circle dials in v1 were awesome! You just hover over the dial and increase your vale. Super easy. Super awesome! Those dials in v1 took up waaayyy less space than the new long sliders here in v2. The dials from v1 didnt need to be turned into sliders here in v2. Now we have unnecessary sliders taking up UI space. And now you have icons under those sliders that we're expected to know. Its crazy! In v1, the context toolbar had every thing "spelled out" for you so it helped you know where everything was. It was truthfully awesome and so helpful. The v1 context toolbar was just so awesome! Literally go back to AD v1, try out the context toolbar, and then come back to v2 and see how its all a mess and confusing. Ugh! And all those icons at the top. My goodness. What are we doing?

20 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

While I'm sure some folks will chime in with the inherent benefits of rope stabilization vs window stabilization (and vice-versa) I've always been somewhat at a loss to really differentiate between the two, and usually just set it to 'window' which gives me an experience that is not all that different from what I have now with Procreate, Fresco, and Illustrator[1].

I never understood the difference between rope and window. I even played with both settings in v1 and they feel the same. I always said there should have been a 3rd stabilizer called "smooth stabilizer." Its a stabilizer that acts like the one in illustrator, fresco, and procreate where the app would do the smoothing for you. In rope and window the smoothing is done depending on the speed of your hand. Serif never implemented this 3rd stabilizer into the app. 😐 You can read about my post here. 

 

The solution to everything here is to go back to the way the context toolbar was in v1. It was never broken. No debate about sliders. No using an icon to toggle between things. No weird icons that serif expects us users to know. No cluster of icons at the top. Nothing is redistributed. Everything is spelled out for you in v1. The context toolbar in v1 was awesome. @Bryan RiegerHave you seen the rope and window stabilizer context toolbar in v1? The value input is literally right next to it. It doesnt get any better and easier than that. Now, in v2, we've moved and splitted everything everywhere. IDKY we're making these bad design decisions. You know its bad design when a user, you, says it took them AGES to figure something out. You know its bad design when a user, you, says something they need is too far away from them. You know its bad design when you call something confusing.  You know its bad design when you have to look at 2 different areas of the interface for completing 1 basic action.

[Guest]

I've been thinking about this post a lot today as I've been working in Adobe Illustrator, Fresco, Procreate, and Linea (notes/sketches) on the iPad.

The one thing that feels very different when using these tools compared to the Affinity tools (v2 especially) is just how much they've been designed to be used with the Apple Pencil. The way Illustrator smooths the curve as you draw (based on the amount of smoothing you've set for that brush), the way it allows you to create a sharp point/corner by slowing the pencil and stopping for a brief moment until it displays a little dot animation indicating that the sharp corner has been created (no silly rope needed). If you need to edit the line or shape, switching to the node tool provides a context menu which allows you to remove points (it tries it's best to retain the curve—a feature I sorely miss when using Affinity Designer), change the layer order, or delete nodes or the object all together. And the touch shortcut combined with the gestures makes such a positive difference, especially when compared to the pseudo-keyboard shortcuts found in the v2 iPad apps. Or the way it automatically closes a shape when the end of your line is within a set tolerance (a short distance) of the start of the line (it's not an either closed or not toggle mode). Or the way Procreate allows you to draw and hold briefly to straighten lines or convert your lines to shapes (which you can then edit using points, Linea also does something similar).

These apps have all been designed to enable you to focus largely on the drawing experience, as the buttons and sliders are kept to a minimum, and everything you need is often provided in context. The gestures are consistent, and behave as expected on the platform (the gestures on the Affinity layers are just strange). The result is that these apps feel intuitive, comfortable, and a joy to use. Contrast this experience with the Affinity apps (v2 specifically) where you are so often taken out of the drawing experience to fiddle with sliders (do we really need decimals everywhere?), toggle modes, buttons, menu items, panels, inputs, etc. that it's very easy to lose your flow—which in my experience, isn't much fun.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Guest
Removed snark.

[MoonaticDestiny]

Yes, to everything you said, my friend.

2 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

(do we really need decimals everywhere?)

THIS! I dont know why values are in decimals in v1 and v2. Why are we working in decimal values? Its pisses me off. No one works this way. If someone needs THAT specific decimal value let them enter it in but dont make us work this way. I made a whole post about this in the v1 forums back in june but serif never implemented a setting in the preferences to turn it off. Im still waiting for this. 

 

7 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

(the gestures on the Affinity layers are just strange).

How? I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[MoonaticDestiny]

13 hours ago, Bryan Rieger said:

The one thing that feels very different when using these tools compared to the Affinity tools (v2 especially) is just how much they've been designed to be used with the Apple Pencil. The way Illustrator smooths the curve as you draw (based on the amount of smoothing you've set for that brush), the way it allows you to create a sharp point/corner by slowing the pencil and stopping for a brief moment until it displays a little dot animation indicating that the sharp corner has been created (no silly rope needed). If you need to edit the line or shape, switching to the node tool provides a context menu which allows you to remove points (it tries it's best to retain the curve—a feature I sorely miss when using Affinity Designer), change the layer order, or delete nodes or the object all together. And the touch shortcut combined with the gestures makes such a positive difference, especially when compared to the pseudo-keyboard shortcuts found in the v2 iPad apps. Or the way it automatically closes a shape when the end of your line is within a set tolerance (a short distance) of the start of the line (it's not an either closed or not toggle mode). Or the way Procreate allows you to draw and hold briefly to straighten lines or convert your lines to shapes (which you can then edit using points, Linea also does something similar).

I dont have adobe illustrator on ipad. I dont want to pay the subscription. I CANT relate to what youre saying here because I dont have the app, but this video helps me relate to what youre talking about and what youre feeling and OMG. I'm honestly AMAZED. I didnt know the adobe app did this. IM SO AMAZED right now! Everything is working with the pencil. Its truly amazing! Like, they thought about how the user should work and created a simple helpful workflow for them. This is awesome.  Im honestly having second thoughts right now about paying for an adobe illustrator subscription. Its cool how theres smoothing. Which is what I requested and never got. Theres no silly rope like you say. You can stop to make a sharp edge and then continue on. This is super cool and then how the path closes by getting to the end of your line is awesome. Theres this light relieving feeling in my head right now where I feel like I can work and get stuff done and I feel excited and joy. I dont get that with AD. Im flustered with ADs UI. Im every where. I have to click several buttons to do basic actions.😫🤕 Something else I love is that corner widget in illustrator. Adobe provides you the corner widget on sharp points to make corners easily. Affinity makes a button for corners and then makes you active it to make a corner. Its so many steps. Sigh. @Bryan Riegerthank you for bring this to my attention, my friend. What youre feeling in this post of yours is how Im feeling too.

 

[Guest]

On 11/29/2022 at 9:57 PM, MoonaticDestiny said:

"(the gestures on the Affinity layers are just strange)."

How? I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this.

So I made a little movie (see below) to illustrate how I feel the Affinity layers interactions are 'just strange'. 

In the video I compare Affinity Designer (much the same for Photo) with Procreate, Linea, Adobe Illustrator, and Adobe Fresco.

A few things you'll notice with the other apps is that you are often presented with a context menu with common actions when you tap a layer. For Procreate this includes rename, select, copy, fill, clear, alpha lock, mask, invest, and reference. With Linea it includes lock/unlock, show/hide, alpha lock, import/paste, merge, and clear. Illustrator provides a context menu below the object itself, meaning that you don't have to even open the layers panel/menu to access common actions. Fresco on the other hand displays a rather large contextual menu when you tap a layer, sadly it's very similar the menu you get when you tap the three dots. Affinity apps do nothing when you tap a layer.

For all apps (except Linea and Fresco) swiping left on a layer begins to reveal another set of less used options. With Procreate this is lock, duplicate, and delete, and with Illustrator it's rename, duplicate and delete. You'll also notice that both Procreate and Illustrator provide some affordance/feedback to the user indicating that swiping the layer will in fact do something. This is done by moving the layer with the users finger as soon as the user begins to swipe. In contrast, the Affinity apps not only provide no affordance that the layer is indeed 'swipeable', but the resulting menu doesn't contain items that I would expect (add to selection, delete, blend modes) with the bulk of the operations only available via the three dots menu, and the hamburger (three lines) menu. Tapping the layer itself does nothing, but tapping and holding will enable you do move the layer within the layers panel like all of the other apps. Delete is also right there at the top of the layers panel (trash can icon), and blend modes are probably better access via the three dots menu. I'm not entirely sure what 'add to selection' does?

To me the Affinity apps (especially v2) feel like they were never really designed for the iPad, let alone to take advantage of the Apple Pencil. The interface and user experience reminds me much more of a 90s desktop experience[1], than a modern application designed for touch screens and fingers/styluses. It also feels as though Serif has either never looked at Fitt's Law, or decided that it simply doesn't apply to their applications.

This may seem like a small thing to many, but when you're using the Apple Pencil and interacting with layers constantly (something you're very likely to do when using design and illustration focused apps), you really notice the inherent UX friction designed into the Affinity apps. Yes, you can get used to it, in much the same way you can get used to a broken leg, or a really bad lingering smell.

[1] I'm aware that for some users having a full desktop app-like experience (wee buttons, hidden menus, and all) crammed into an iPad is 'the ultimate dream' (moar power, all the things!). Sadly, for me, that equates to an app that does absolutely everything, but nothing terribly well.

 

[MoonaticDestiny]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:11 AM, Bryan Rieger said:

To me the Affinity apps (especially v2) feel like they were never really designed for the iPad, let alone to take advantage of the Apple Pencil. The interface and user experience reminds me much more of a 90s desktop experience[1], than a modern application designed for touch screens and fingers/styluses.

Yes again to everything you said. I get you. Youre right about everything with the layer gestures. The add to selection, delete, and blend modes were just added in v2. V1 didnt have any of these layer interactions. I hate that you have to tap the 3 dots to get to basic layer properties like the opacity slider and layer name rename. It takes like 4-6 steps just to rename a layer and they still havent made it easier. Its so angering. 

On 11/30/2022 at 8:11 AM, Bryan Rieger said:

It also feels as though Serif has either never looked at Fitt's Law, or decided that it simply doesn't apply to their applications.

Its funny that you said this because you were the one who mentioned it in a forum post I made a while back. It was you! Im so happy it was you because it tells me that we're both on the same page! 😊

[evtonic3]

Can we get stabilization as part of individual brush settings? Is this hard to do?