No DXF EXPORT in Designer 2 ..are you serious!?

[PaoloT]

3 hours ago, Calvert said:

So, if Affinity Design doesnt adapt to a file format (dxf) that has been with us for at least 30 yrs in the CAD industry, I dont think it can be a good partner either.

Affinity Designer is not a CAD. The way it describes lines and curves is different from a CAD. I hope you understand the whole discussion about how impossible it is to get an accurate conversion between something like AI and DXF. You are obviously free to use any program doing an inaccurate conversion, and be happy.

Paolo

 

[MulletAndMustache]

14 minutes ago, PaoloT said:

Affinity Designer is not a CAD. The way it describes lines and curves is different from a CAD. I hope you understand the whole discussion about how impossible it is to get an accurate conversion between something like AI and DXF. You are obviously free to use any program doing an inaccurate conversion, and be happy.

Paolo

 

Yeah, news flash, the guys taking your AI files are just converting them over to DXF if they're using any sort of industrial cnc. They just have a workflow in place that has given them acceptable results and don't mind taking the "risk" that their conversion process will degrade the cutting file. Most companies I've dealt with would prefer not to have those extra steps that might introduce errors into the final cut product that they'd then have to re cut to make it right. They really prefer to take something that'll work if they plug it straight into their machines and if the file is messed up it's your fault and not theirs.

Also after saying all that I have to laugh every time people say "ThIs DeSiGn sOfTwArE is nOt CAD" because the accuracy you get from the "artistic" software, 2D or 3D, is more than enough for 90%-95% of things that are built. Unless you're machining an engine or building nuclear or something like that getting results that are +/- 0.5mm are perfectly acceptable, especially for artistic things. The biggest problem is when splines get converted to poly lines and lose their curvature.

 

Honestly a whole building could be fully designed in Blender and built off of a 3D poly model and nobody would notice any inconsistencies with the design files due to Blender "Not being CAD". With single point float I think you could have 8km cubed of 0.1mm accuracy before you start seeing degradation in your design...

[MulletAndMustache]

39 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

That is not the issue. The output file format is. Blender does have limitations on its dxf exports: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/addons/import_export/scene_dxf.html

So if you use Blender to design your building with the intention of using dxf as the output, make sure you do not use anything from the list of unsupported options.

None of this is helpful anyway. AD does not have dxf export. Maybe one day it will. But today it does not.

Yeah, na, I could export all of my flat files from Blender in .svg and run them through a DXF converter and still be within our +/- 1/32" cut tolerance. With structural steel it's all just squares or circles anyway... What I'm saying is when people try and bash software for "not being accurate enough because it's not a CAD program" they don't really get how accurate those programs are to begin with and how much tolerance there is in the real world when building stuff. Not everything needs super exact CAD precision.

 

The issue is there's plenty of machines that only take DXF files to cut profiles. So if you're designing something that needs to get cut by one of those machines your final deliverable is a DXF. If you're using splines to design your files the accuracy of those curves most likely aren't critical as long as it all comes out smooth in the end. So if they got a "Good enough" spline to DXF export and let the designer know that there might be some discrepancies between the source file and the output that would solve all of our DXF woes.

I've used a few sketchy paid german DXF (CAD-KAS and others) conversion/cleanup tools and they'll get "good enough" files from SVGs even. Their interfaces are all terrible and it takes a bit of time to get a good result though.

[Calvert]

1 hour ago, PaoloT said:

Affinity Designer is not a CAD. The way it describes lines and curves is different from a CAD. I hope you understand the whole discussion about how impossible it is to get an accurate conversion between something like AI and DXF. You are obviously free to use any program doing an inaccurate conversion, and be happy.

Paolo

 

I NEVER stated Affinity was a CAD. However, Affinity came out advertising they were in the same category as Corel and Adobe and it looks like they are NOT either. If that is the case, the 2 top competitors that they are "trying" to compete with BOTH export in dxf file format.

Sometimes, I use Adobe to save dxf for cnc sign shapes and are within tolerance to what we need. No big deal.

Bottom line, once again another program not what it was cracked up to be and fell short.             If I was Adobe, Id be laughing.

[AffinityMakesMeSad]

6 minutes ago, Calvert said:

I NEVER stated Affinity was a CAD. However, Affinity came out advertising they were in the same category as Corel and Adobe and it looks like they are NOT either. If that is the case, the 2 top competitors that they are "trying" to compete with BOTH export in dxf file format.

Sometimes, I use Adobe to save dxf for cnc sign shapes and are within tolerance to what we need. No big deal.

Bottom line, once again another program not what it was cracked up to be and fell short.             If I was Adobe, Id be laughing.

As I wrote above, Serif Labs has NEVER advertised that their software is like Corel/Adobe…

You’re welcome to show us some links or screenshots that show this advertising…

[MulletAndMustache]

11 minutes ago, AffinityMakesMeSmile said:

As I wrote above, Serif Labs has NEVER advertised that their software is like Corel/Adobe…

loooool. No they never advertised it, but it's kinda implied when you have a photoshop clone, an illustrator clone, and a publisher clone and off them as a packaged deal.

[Patrick Connor]

1 minute ago, MulletAndMustache said:

a photoshop clone, an illustrator clone, and a publisher clone

If they were clones they would have all the same features. You are complaining they do not, so they are not clones  

[Calvert]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

If they were clones they would have all the same features. You are complaining they do not, so they are not clones  

So because you duplicate 99% of all the features (probably due to Serifs shortcomings)  you consider this software not a clone? Ironic your targeting the EXACT same customer base, with 99% of the same features and its not a clone? As I said earlier, Adobe is laughing.

If I would had known about Serifs shortcomings before the 30 day refund ran up, I would had got my money refunded, and would not have looked back.

[MulletAndMustache]

8 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

If they were clones they would have all the same features. You are complaining they do not, so they are not clones  

They have the same functionality and serve the same purpose... So you're directly competing with their products. Just because Photo is missing the magic wand doesn't mean you're not competing directly with Photoshop...

 

Dude we just want to be able to export to a 30 year old 2D curve file format from our 2D vector/curve editing software. If you can import it and you're starting to target the construction industry you need to be able to export it as well. Fully and clearly explain the limitations to the DXF export that you can achieve and your customers will deal with the rest.

[MulletAndMustache]

6 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

You would effectively have to have one-to-one mapping of attributes...

No. You just have to have mapping of the important attributes. Lots of information won't be pertinent from one file format to the other and DXFs are pretty bare bones as far as file information goes. Designers typically understand that when you're exporting to a 3rd party file format from any software you're going to lose information in the process.

I don't expect to be able to export a jpeg with an alpha channel for example...

The hard part that Serif doesn't want to do is figure out how to effectively convert splines to arcs. All of the other information needed for DXFs will already be in their own file formats.

[MulletAndMustache]

1 minute ago, LondonSquirrel said:

What happens when somebody else (i.e. not you) wants some "important attributes" which are not in your list of important attributes? The whole argument starts again...

OMFG then the designer can figure out a work around for what's not included, as everybody who's currently using Designer without DXF export features have been doing thus far. I have to do that whenever I export 3D data to a .step or .igs format, most of the time they even lose part naming. Or from OBJ or FBX... They all lose information when you export to a 3rd party.

Let me say it again. In the designer files there's already all of the information that would be needed to make DXFs. The HARD PART is converting SPLINES to the mathimatical ARCS that are needed in the DXF format.

[Pšenda]

4 hours ago, Calvert said:

If I would had known about Serifs shortcomings before the 30 day refund ran up, I would had got my money refunded, and would not have looked back.

As an expert in laser cutting, which you constantly declare yourself to be here, did you not notice during the duration of the trial version and during the refund period - that Afinity cannot export DXF? Wow.

[Calvert]

58 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

As an expert in laser cutting, which you constantly declare yourself to be here, did you not notice during the duration of the trial version and during the refund period - that Afinity cannot export DXF? Wow.

First, I do not declare any such title with laser cutting. I didnt see that the lack of exporting ability till after the 30 day period.

If your such a fanboy of the Affinity Design, you shouldnt have any issue with owning 2 licenses, so I will sell you mine.   I see that as a win/win. You can be TWICE as happy, and I can go on and purchase a superior product elsewhere. 🤔

[GenewalDesign]

The Drawings SDK can be a good starting point. https://www.opendesign.com/products/drawings

[LOB]

On 4/5/2023 at 6:12 PM, Pšenda said:

As an expert in laser cutting, which you constantly declare yourself to be here, did you not notice during the duration of the trial version and during the refund period - that Afinity cannot export DXF? Wow.

Again, it's sad to see people spending time trying to shame someone for requesting a feature.  

Who cares about the money or the trial period, whatever...  Features are requested by users for applications all the time.  Many applications are excellent but are missing some pretty important features.  Obviously they've recognized DXF as important because Affinity advertised it as a key feature for Designer 2.  But import and no export isn't a complete function.  

Deep breath everyone, we love Affinity but we have a need for feature that would make Designer2 even more functional, awesome and usable.  While it's not important to some, it is to others.

[Pšenda]

7 hours ago, LOB said:

Again, it's sad to see people spending time trying to shame someone for requesting a feature.  

If you would have tried to notice the context of my post, which you are responding to here, you would have understood - that it did not refer to a "request" for the function at all. As a reminder (if you missed it): "If I would had known about Serifs shortcomings before the 30 day refund ran up, I would had got my money refunded, and would not have looked back.".

[Pšenda]

On 4/6/2023 at 1:18 AM, Calvert said:

First, I do not declare any such title with laser cutting.

Yes, you are right - I have to apologize because these posts of yours were translated incorrectly by Google Translator.

On 1/25/2023 at 12:00 PM, Calvert said:

However ,i would use it to take a vector and turn it into a dxf for cutting.

On 4/3/2023 at 11:20 PM, Calvert said:

I'm a designer who uses lasers .....

I at my my sign shop use .dxf for not only laser, but cnc both.  From engraving (Both cnc and laser) text in an ADA bathroom sign, to cutting out a sign panel shape, to 3d sign fabrication.

However, since complete dxf format support (including export) is so critical and a priority for you, I am surprised that you do not verify and test this functionality before purchasing the application. I would do that first thing.

 

On 4/6/2023 at 1:18 AM, Calvert said:

so I will sell you mine.

I would love to help you, but unfortunately the license is non-transferable.

[Leone]

 

Please insert the possibility of exporting to dxf, it has now become fundamental for laser cutting. I'm a fan of yours and I bought both the first and second complete suite of your software. But it is unacceptable that there is no possibility to export in dxf. Not only Illustrator offers this possibility, but also free software like Inkscape. Please work for your fans and supporters. Thank you

[Patrick Connor]

@Leone

Welcome to the Serif Affinity forums

 and thanks for the polite request 

[Tia Lapis]

And round and round it goes. Never knew that laser cutters where so widely in use under graphics designers...

[Calvert]

3 hours ago, Tia Lapis said:

And round and round it goes. Never knew that laser cutters where so widely in use under graphics designers...

I guess you learn something every day.

Most "graphic designers"  here in the states do more than limit themselves to just design logos. We fabricate sign shapes from Aluminum, and acrylic using cnc and lasers both.

[Image Surgery]

Patrick, thanks for your calm replies to this heated thread, and add to it another calm request from a long-time user who's just getting started in a new application of their design skills, and would really appreciate the addition of DXF export and the accompanying reduction of trips to other packages as midway hops in a never-ending sea of unitless formats and differing interpretations of fine detail my work now entails.

---

For all of you slinging fierce barbs at people you don't know or slinging them right back at other people you also don't know, it's not a good look. You know little about other's situations, or how they may have come to the point they're at. As an example, I've paid for and used both versions of all three of these wonderful apps, typeset a full book for a friend as a starter project, used it as my 'home solution' for years because it was (and remains) affordable and excellent, and only recently picked up laser cutting and CNC routing. It's at this point that I now need DXF, so free trials or paid trials or demo versions or anything else wouldn't work for my particular situation, now would I have known about this in advance (because of a lack of concurrence of events called 'time' or 'life'). I'm here now, asking for a thing that does exist but doesn't exists here, and trying to do so in a respectful and kind manner. I've also found solutions to all the issues which are being presented, but none of them are easy or pretty, so I still think it's a valid ask. Plus, by asking, developers such as Patrick and others at Serif get better information about how people both use their products, and wish to use their products. 

Bottom line: I'm here now, and would like to request this feature please, for all the good reasons stated before, and it's not 100% critical but it is a real and major factor in my workflow.

Honestly have no idea where the vitriol is coming from, other than 'the internet', 'these days', and 'people'. Did I miss 'feature request'? How does that even work? Sheesh.

Lastly, for any of you working with equipment you own or manage directly, try Lightburn, and try using PDF as an intermediary. It's certainly not CAD, but as a workflow it is simple and maintains scale correctly. Results in my experience have been indistinguishable, however it obviously requires paid software and a small amount of testing, so it might not work in all situations. Hopefully it will help some, and if not, create a bit of interesting vitriol itself for daring to be… suggested. *wink, wink*

[TheSchlonz]

I am also missing the export to dxf feature, but there are free ways to do so, but with a little extra work.

Inkscape is a free vector based drawing tool and is able to export to dxf.

The bad news about this is, the more vectors you have in the drawing, the more very small lines will be in the dxf file.

But you can fix this by using a small, incredible tool, named polyline reducer.

Sadly it's not free, it costs 89 Euro, but it's amazing an worth every cent.

I use this combination since years in a company which 3 laser cutting machines, to prepare files that I get from Profesional designers that can only provide vector based file formats like svg.

AD is a great tool to design and I think, it would be a great benefit (for me) if the dxf export would be implemented.

I, for my part, do not understand for what reason there is a dxf import function.

[PaoloT]

18 hours ago, TheSchlonz said:

I use this combination since years in a company which 3 laser cutting machines, to prepare files that I get from Profesional designers that can only provide vector based file formats like svg.

Since you work with laser cutters, maybe you can help me/us understand why PDF or SVG files are not working? The companies I had dealt with, or to which I have asked for a cost estimate, allowed me to supply my files in those formats, but I see you are speaking about a conversion to be done in the backoffice. Why is this?

Paolo

 

[TheSchlonz]

1 hour ago, PaoloT said:

Since you work with laser cutters, maybe you can help me/us understand why PDF or SVG files are not working? The companies I had dealt with, or to which I have asked for a cost estimate, allowed me to supply my files in those formats, but I see you are speaking about a conversion to be done in the backoffice. Why is this?

Paolo

 

Hmm, im wrote a answer to your question a hour ago, got the message, that my post has to be approved, and now its gone.

So i think i wait a while and will than answer again.