Affinity V2, updates, pricing and no subscription (moved)

[Matthew Dickerson]

2 hours ago, awakenedbyowls said:

You know what I think would be a good offer for existing customers?

The ability to buy part of it. If I bought the full V2 I'd only end up using Designer 99% of the time and Photo 1% - I just don't have a need for Publisher - so I'd be paying more or less the same as if I just bought Designer and Photo on Windows and iPad (on this deal)

So if I could just buy maybe those two products for my needs at 2/3 of the V2 suite then it would be a greater incentive? (of course it would because then it's even cheaper)

It just feels like I'm being forced to buy a part of the suite I don't want. I know the prices are already low - it's just a thought.

You can buy part of it. you don't need to buy all 3 for the deal.

[Matthew Dickerson]

Also just wanted to say for those v1 users complaining about not getting an upgrade discount - It's great that new and old users are getting a big 40% discount..

More New customers = More Money = More funds for development and hiring = More features and improvements = BETTER FOR EVERYONE!

 

[Colorwaves]

THANK YOU SERIF!

Thank you for the helpful new features, for the aesthetically and meaningfully redesigned interface, and for the promising prospect of exciting updates due to the reprogrammed environment.

 

COMMUNICATION

I appreciate Ash's answer! Serif shows the ability to learn and act accordingly. We are listened to, we are informed openly and they try to accommodate us benevolently. There's no reason we shouldn't behave the same way.

• Important questions have been answered in the forum and revised in the FAQs.
• They are working on providing us with an additional installation method if required and in the forum they provided us with interim solutions quite quickly.
• An additional package for the upgraders will be provided, which is very nice given the already fair price. 

 

UPGRADE PRICE OVERREACTIONS

I understand the rationale behind the expressed desire for price differentiation between V1 owners and new customers, especially if they bought V1 just a few months before. But the oversized drama of some users, who even carry their frustration so extensively beyond the borders of this forum into the www (as already seen), I find questionable in view of Serif's courteous reactions.

Given the quality of the tools at such a human price point and without the obligation to subscribe, one might also choose to smile happily at the creative opportunities that are available to us over the long term.

Our concerns have been answered and Serif is already working to accommodate us. Plunge wildly into the wonderful creative work, enjoy the new features and stop complaining! We are holding a great piece of software in our hands... 

[Komatös]

18 hours ago, Designer1234 said:

Perhaps they should just clarify that they guarantee "free updates of v1/v2 etc." - especially that customers don't understand what "lifetime" means, It's not about their lives but the product life  

So unless a person is the dumbest village idiot, one should realise what lifetime means in a software product. 😷
But maybe I'm expecting too much. 😉

@Terkoz
I agree with your last paragraph. Maybe that will happen with V3. 

[Dangerous]

I purchased A-Photo 18 months ago after 4 year of paying subs to Adobe and getting nothing in return, A-Designer & A-Publisher about 5-6 months ago. Personally I have been treated more than fair by Serif and anticipated the Ver 2 release (the signs were there) weeks before. I purchased Ver 2 (full set) within minutes of the site going live again on the 9th, hours before I saw what was new in it. I don't like the app version so waiting for the msi install version but for me it was well worth the money. I have no doubt that future updates will add more features and improvements and I look forward to them.

As for whether I should have had additional upgrade discount, My opinion is no, I got too good a deal with the 3 Ver 1 programs and an even bigger deal (3 programs on 2 platforms, I don't have a mac) for £90. I have no reason to complain. Well done Serif.

[Chiyonosake013]

Nothing long or eloquent, just wanted to throw my name into the “Supporting Serif” bucket.  I love all that’s been done to the software, fully expected to pay for the upgrade, and am excited to see what else the future holds for it all.  I may have felt slightly different had I just bought the software I suppose, but even so the cost to go to v2 is incredibly fair for the universal license.  And it’s not like you’re being forced to upgrade immediately either, the v1 software will still continue to function for you as it has for the last many years. 

 

Either way, thanks again and keep up the good work

[awakenedbyowls]

3 hours ago, Matthew Dickerson said:

You can buy part of it. you don't need to buy all 3 for the deal.

I meant part of the Suite Deal - like say Designer 2 on Windows and iPad for 1/3 of the price of the full suite. Then maybe later I can upgrade to Photo 2 aaaand that would work good for me.

The options on offer make it difficult to decide what to go for. Thinking maybe just iPadOS D2 and Photo2 for now - but then if they offer a discount later I'll already have forked out.

I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me here - just illustrating how this offer structure creates a dilemma for me and I'm sure others are facing similar - I think it would be easier if they had just (Win/iPad/Mac) bundles for each application that reflected more something like a bit more than a third of the full bundle rather than over half the price of the bundle (if that makes sense)?

I don't need or want Publisher but I feel like I'm being forced to buy it to get the deal. I know it is what it is and it's still a great deal and in a world of Adobe's and ... the other wotsit Creative Something or other - it's a great deal! But I'm skint and I just forked out a load of money for new software and computers and makey things and I'm still waiting for a return on my investment so AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME My Situation = I don't know!

[Matthew Dickerson]

10 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

I meant part of the Suite Deal - like say Designer 2 on Windows and iPad for 1/3 of the price of the full suite. Then maybe later I can upgrade to Photo 2 aaaand that would work good for me.

The options on offer make it difficult to decide what to go for. Thinking maybe just iPadOS D2 and Photo2 for now - but then if they offer a discount later I'll already have forked out.

I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me here - just illustrating how this offer structure creates a dilemma for me and I'm sure others are facing similar - I think it would be easier if they had just (Win/iPad/Mac) bundles for each application that reflected more something like a bit more than a third of the full bundle rather than over half the price of the bundle (if that makes sense)?

I don't need or want Publisher but I feel like I'm being forced to buy it to get the deal. I know it is what it is and it's still a great deal and in a world of Adobe's and ... the other wotsit Creative Something or other - it's a great deal! But I'm skint and I just forked out a load of money for new software and computers and make things and I'm still waiting for a return on my investment so AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME My Situation = I don't know!

Ah I see, I didn't realise you only pay for 1 platform if you buy products separately.. that definitely makes the universal licence more appealing.. I would say this about publisher though, It's fantastic and I far prefer it to InDesign, InDesign is so laggy and crashes all the time for me on my iMac, I still use photoshop and illustrator but avoid InDesign at all costs lol.. you never know if you'll need publisher in future.. Like for Resumes or well anything text-based.. it's a great tool to have even if you're not gonna use it often..  

[awakenedbyowls]

6 minutes ago, Matthew Dickerson said:

Ah I see, I didn't realise you only pay for 1 platform if you buy products separately.. that definitely makes the universal licence more appealing.. I would say this about publisher though, It's fantastic and I far prefer it to InDesign, InDesign is so laggy and crashes all the time for me on my iMac, I still use photoshop and illustrator but avoid InDesign at all costs lol.. you never know if you'll need publisher in future.. Like for Resumes or well anything text-based.. it's a great tool to have even if you're not gonna use it often..  

Having something to knock up documents could be handy - but still I kind of see Publisher as not really capable of doing anything I couldn't do with Designer? I used to publish Cryptic Crosswords and I used Illustrator to make up the grids for that. 

[Dangerous]

14 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

I meant part of the Suite Deal - like say Designer 2 on Windows and iPad for 1/3 of the price of the full suite. Then maybe later I can upgrade to Photo 2 aaaand that would work good for me.

The options on offer make it difficult to decide what to go for. Thinking maybe just iPadOS D2 and Photo2 for now - but then if they offer a discount later I'll already have forked out.

I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me here - just illustrating how this offer structure creates a dilemma for me and I'm sure others are facing similar - I think it would be easier if they had just (Win/iPad/Mac) bundles for each application that reflected more something like a bit more than a third of the full bundle rather than over half the price of the bundle (if that makes sense)?

I don't need or want Publisher but I feel like I'm being forced to buy it to get the deal. I know it is what it is and it's still a great deal and in a world of Adobe's and ... the other wotsit Creative Something or other - it's a great deal! But I'm skint and I just forked out a load of money for new software and computers and makey things and I'm still waiting for a return on my investment so AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME My Situation = I don't know!

Go to a shop where there is a 3 for £3, normally £1.30 and see if they sell you 1 for £1, not many (if any) will.

Again go to a shop and buy something for £1.30. Next day it is on sale for £1. Try getting 30p back.

They have a 3 program on 3 platform bundle at a price which is a lot less than many single programs on single platforms cost. Even at full price it is still a lot cheaper than many are. Some 'ADD ONS' cost about the same as the Affinity full price. 

You don't want or need Publisher then don't buy it, no one is forcing you to take the offer. I'm skint, I borrowed some money to get the 3 programs, I don't need AD or AP but want them to 'play' with. I'm not waiting for them to return on my investment which is just as well as they never will, unless I class the enjoyment I get using them as payback enough (which I do). How much do you spend on drink, fags, watching sport etc. the you don't get payback on?

Make a decision and move on.

 

 

[awakenedbyowls]

1 minute ago, Dangerous said:

Make a decision and move on.

I'm still not sure

I think I need a life coach to help me?

3 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

Go to a shop where there is a 3 for £3, normally £1.30 and see if they sell you 1 for £1, not many (if any) will.

I didn't say "exactly one third of the full suite" - I said "a bit more than" one third 

The point I made was fair enough

Individual Application Packages to commensurately reflect the other price scalings or this new price structure is a "Buy Publisher Or Pay More" trick

We like the honest and upfront approach of Affinity 

Don't become another Adobe

[Matthew Dickerson]

5 minutes ago, awakenedbyowls said:

Having something to knock up documents could be handy - but still I kind of see Publisher as not really capable of doing anything I couldn't do with Designer? I used to publish Cryptic Crosswords and I used Illustrator to make up the grids for that. 

Ah well, 30 day free trial to have a go at it! Or even check out some of the youtube videos for Publisher, you might spot something and think that's gonna be super useful! For me - Baseline Grid alignment for text is my number one feature - having text nicely lined up and looking perfect is the main reason why I love it lol.. especially if you have columns and different fonts and sizes together this'll make everything look sweet

[awakenedbyowls]

Just now, Matthew Dickerson said:

Ah well, 30 day free trial to have a go at it! Or even check out some of the youtube videos for Publisher, you might spot something and think that's gonna be super useful! For me - Baseline Grid alignment for text is my number one feature - having text nicely lined up and looking perfect is the main reason why I love it lol.. especially if you have columns and different fonts and sizes together this'll make everything look sweet

Getting a gig setting grids for a major publisher would be super useful - then we can talk Publisher maybe

I used to get good result with Illustrator making up crossword grids - everything lined up. I'm not sure what advantage Publisher has over Designer in terms of lining things up - presumably none but then I haven't used it enough to find the same usefulness you seem to have so I'll take your word for it

I remember years ago knocking up some Posters with some Mac program - can't remember what it was now but it was really good and I enjoyed using it

[Terkoz]

9 hours ago, GeRo said:

Since when, please?

I'm not quite sure why you are asking this. I haven't the faintest idea. It's a company so someone owns it whether it be an individual or a series of investors. They need to see a return or they would sell their stock.

[GeRo]

31 minutes ago, Terkoz said:

why you are asking this

Because many people would like to buy those shares. You wrote about dividend. So please tell us more since when and how to get it.

Thanks in advance.

[BigGandalf]

Some people on here can't understand or don't want to understand. If you purchased a data plan with unlimited data, then all of a sudden they tell you, oh yh it's not unlimited, nothing is unlimited in life, that is misleading. I was sold on misleading info on the understanding that I'd have at least a couple of years of full updates. I've only had this app 6 months and now I won't get my full updates. This app was the easier option for me, it was either this app or gimp, but gimp we have to install a bunch of addons to make it just as good, if not better. So I thought I'd save myself some time and go with affinity. Now with all this licencing and they did mention about a subscription based affinity, it seems it's definitely on the cards in the future because that's where the money is, if they do go that way which I think they will, then I'd guess they and the fanboys will blame it on us as an excuse to why they went subscription based. Yh go ahead and blame it's customers. You lot are blind and follow like sheep. The fanboys of affinity.
As for the customer service, what customer service, where is it, it seems like a laughing stock of a company. Too many are way too laxed and sleepy to not see what's really going on.
The old timers on here obviously will feel there looked after because they have been, it's only the new comers like myself that are left to the wayside by the Devs.
They even admitted that they mislead us, but they are not fixing this to make it right.
I can't believe that some of you old timers can't even spot bad customer service and see the tone in which they speak. So because you've been looked after, forget about those who've been given the hard shoulder eh.
Now I won't get full updates, you have to stand by what you believe to be right. I've been mislead, all I ask is for this company to do the decent thing and fix it. Then it'll be problem solved, but I don't believe they will as some new comers I believe would have paid again and they wouldn't want to be out of pocket by refunding them.
Affinity Photo doesn't look like a bunch of roses like it used to.

[saraartist]

I appreciate the honesty and I am still loving your company and mission! I just really hope that there are some major updates soon to fix some bugs and slowness

[Corgi]

7 hours ago, Komatös said:

So unless a person is the dumbest village idiot, one should realise what lifetime means in a software product. 😷
But maybe I'm expecting too much. 😉

In the case of Affinity, "lifetime" has two different meanings. In the context of updates, you're right -- some people wrongly assume it means continued updates during their lifetime. But in the context of the license itself, well that is a license that's valid indefinitely for the purchaser's lifetime. So it's not a clear-cut situation.

[rvst]

2 hours ago, GeRo said:

Because many people would like to buy those shares. You wrote about dividend. So please tell us more since when and how to get it.

Thanks in advance.

It's a private company, majority owned by the two principals of Serif. You can't buy the shares 

[Corgi]

1 hour ago, BigGandalf said:

... Now with all this licencing and they did mention about a subscription based affinity, it seems it's definitely on the cards in the future because that's where the money is, if they do go that way which I think they will, then I'd guess they and the fanboys will blame it on us as an excuse to why they went subscription based. Yh go ahead and blame it's customers. You lot are blind and follow like sheep. The fanboys of affinity.
As for the customer service, what customer service, where is it, it seems like a laughing stock of a company. Too many are way too laxed and sleepy to not see what's really going on.
The old timers on here obviously will feel there looked after because they have been, it's only the new comers like myself that are left to the wayside by the Devs. They even admitted that they mislead us, but they are not fixing this to make it right.

If you purchased v1 six months ago and have therefore received (and will receive) no feature updates, I can understand being upset about that. From archive.org, I can't see their verbiage about promising updates, although they did have a great 50% off sale exactly 6 months ago. I hope you got that, at least.

It boils down to expectations and communication. If Serif had a regular 2-year release cycle, say, then you'd have known what to expect. Without knowing their release cycle or upgrade policies in advance, purchases can indeed become a bit of a gamble a year or two after a major release.

However ... your speculation about a subscription-based Affinity, and then further speculations of how Serif and its customers would react if/when that happens, are ... well ... highly speculative. True, the world is drifting toward subscription models, but that tends to occur most often in cases where you have a company that needs a steady income stream, is publicly traded or seeking to be publicly traded, and either has a highly-saturated customer base, or isn't confident about its ability to add compelling features to its products over time (e.g., Microsoft Office). It seems to me doubtful that Serif is near that point.

You say that the old timers have been properly looked after (I agree), but at the same time you complain about poor customer service. Yes, there is some validity to that latter point when it comes to recent purchasers.  But it's only been ten days since the v2 release, and Serif is still adjusting to customer feedback, and has already taken steps to at least partially satisfy some of the complaints. It would seem fair to cut them some slack in the short-term; maybe things will improve further.

But even if people like you end up feeling cheated, it would be wrong to tar and feather the whole company (or its satisfied customers) just because Serif messed up a product rollout and weren't able to help everyone feel fairly treated.

[debraspicher]

3 hours ago, BigGandalf said:

Some people on here can't understand or don't want to understand.

We can understand you didn't understand. It does NOT change the fact that most people do understand the difference between updates and upgrades. So adding lifetime in front of that, is not confusing for everyone else as the difference was already made clear by using lifetime updates rather than lifetime upgrades***

I do agree with you that the wording is potentially misleading to people who aren't aware what they are reading. It is not fraud though, because "update" is NOT the same as "upgrade". The wording should be updated (no pun intended) if it exists any other place to make clear the difference for people who don't understand how software upgrades function. But I think most people are reasonable enough to comprehend that no software suite can receive unlimited upgrades on a $25-50 one-time payment.

The reason there are upgrades/versions is because no code base can be maintained for perpetuity. Technology and hardware changes too fast. Also if you like the software and want it to include modern features, then developers can't be hobbled by being forced to maintain old code for eternity. After a while that becomes too expensive, too frustrating and impossible. Developers need the option to be able to change platforms when there are major under the hood changes just so that they scale correctly and efficiently. Just because that timing is inconvenient to you is not a sign of fraud.

Imagine they updated to 1.11 or something w V2 feature set but dropped Windows 7 support from V1 without moving to a new version, locking those customers out entirely, just because it was cumbersome to maintain support. Now THAT would be fraud.

[Terkoz]

3 hours ago, BigGandalf said:

Some people on here can't understand or don't want to understand. If you purchased a data plan with unlimited data, then all of a sudden they tell you, oh yh it's not unlimited, nothing is unlimited in life, that is misleading. I was sold on misleading info on the understanding that I'd have at least a couple of years of full updates. I've only had this app 6 months and now I won't get my full updates.

I'm afraid sir that it is you that has missinterpretted the situation when you purchased the software. There isn't an application on the planet that will keep updating a version of a program for a couple of years after it has been superceded. It is standard practice now that when you buy a software package you have access to updates for the life of that version. For when the next one comes out all development usually stops on the superceded codebase. This is why some companies offer a free upgrade to the next version when one is imminent. Not all companies do this though. In fact I think it is happening less and less these days because the communication between companies and their customers is much better these days. A lot of people are complaining about the level of communication from Affinity but it is actually much better than most. Not perfect of course but don't forget this is a small company that can't afford to have a huge communication team. 

Oh and the comments about fanboys? Man you don't know me at all. I've been a software developer for thirty plus years and am very hard on companies I use doing the wrong thing. It's just that in this case I've never seen such unfair criticism and felt the need to speak up.

[bayustudio]

3 hours ago, BigGandalf said:

I was sold on misleading info on the understanding that I'd have at least a couple of years of full updates. I've only had this app 6 months and now I won't get my full updates.

Wondering where you got the misleading info about the free update.
I got AD 1 year ago and AP 6 months ago. both are already in the last major version of 1.x. So unfortunately I never experienced major feature updates as well

But I was aware that free updates are only until version 2 becomes available, it is stated somewhere on the specs page.

Yes it's like a gamble because serif doesn't inform V2 release schedule 🙂

[grammaknits02]

Being a version 1 user for several years, I had no issue at all with the upgrade pricing.  I love Affinity photo, and am very excited about the upgrade.  It is well worth the price paid.  Thank you so much to all of the Affinity team.  You all are the best!

[debraspicher]

42 minutes ago, bayustudio said:

Wondering where you got the misleading info about the free update.
I got AD 1 year ago and AP 6 months ago. both are already in the last major version of 1.x. So unfortunately I never experienced major feature updates as well

But I was aware that free updates are only until version 2 becomes available, it is stated somewhere on the specs page.

Yes it's like a gamble because serif doesn't inform V2 release schedule 🙂

That's unfortunate, but you did get the later features. Some of us had to wait a bit for current tools. Though it is nice to be part of something as it changes over time. So yeah, you'll get to enjoy that feeling with V2.