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Has V2 fixed Affinity's biggest issues?


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Just now, Kal said:

the pros

And who are "the pros"? Each time I read a comment in the forums like that, it sounds like special pleading for exactly the features that certain people want. Maybe I am not a "pro" graphics user, but does that negate my needs or wishes? I am a customer too.

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57 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

And who are "the pros"? Each time I read a comment in the forums like that, it sounds like special pleading for exactly the features that certain people want. Maybe I am not a "pro" graphics user, but does that negate my needs or wishes? I am a customer too.

I didn't mean to sound pompous or condescending by referring to 'pros'. Neither did I meant to be divisive (us vs them). I acknowledge that there are many users who don't make a living from the software, but whose needs are still relevant. However, I think it's fair to say that people who do make a living from the software are naturally going to (a) push the software to its limits more frequently, and (b) be able to provide more insight into what certain industries require. I think it's also fair to say that Affinity has positioned itself as a competitor to Adobe and its Creative Cloud suite, and that software does target professional users.

Let me add that I believe pro software can be suitable for casual users when it is designed well. One principle of good UI/UX is progressive disclosure—where the core features and tools that everyone (pro or casual user) needs are front and centre, while more advanced tools are available, though not immediately obvious. If done well, this allows beginners to intuit how things work, while still providing advanced users the features they need. Apple software tends (though not always) to be a pretty good example of this principle. You might notice that I included 'good UX designers' in my comment that you took issue with. I didn't expand on that, but this is precisely why I said it. Good UI/UX benefits everyone—beginners and advanced users alike. Everyone wins.

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If I may copy my earlier remarks from an obviously off-topic place here, as this is a better place for them, I would really love to see improvements in the “little things” along the version 2 development cycle. By “little things” I mean those usability improvements that save us clicks in frequently performed tasks, most of which have extensively been discussed on these forums. Such as

  • Alt+drag to copy objects in the Layers Panel,
  • Alt+click on layer’s or group’s triangle in the Layers Panel to open or close the entire subtree structure, as it is the case in macOS Finder,
  • Shift+drag to constrain the aspect ratio of the Crop Tool rectangle in Photo,
  • the option of having the Crop Tool remember its last-used state (make it a preference, if you don’t like to make it the default behaviour),
  • the option of setting a custom default tool for an app and for embedded documents that are opened in a new tab (Photo, for instance, always defaults to the Hand Tool which is of no use if you have a trackpad),
  • copy & paste of slices in the Export Persona,
  • the option of adding the Snapping Options Buttons to the toolbar of the Export Persona,
  • the option of holding down a key to temporarily activate a tool just until key release,
  • the option of moving selected pixel content with marquee tool and Command key pressed,
  • etc.

None of these improvements should really be controversial, overly difficult to implement or break any existing workflow. Let me detail just the first item from this list. In January 2015, in one of my first posts here, I had already suggested that the simple option of Alt(Opt) + dragging an object in the Layers Panel to clone the object to a new location in the layers tree should be implemented.

To my understanding, this has never been an outlandish request. The respective option

  • has been available in competitors’ apps for ages,
  • should be implementable with a few lines of code that won’t break anything (don’t tell me otherwise: if the team can set up nondestructive RAW developing and vector mesh warp, this should be an apprentice piece),
  • does not require the implementation of additional UI elements (it is an “invisible” improvement that does not complicate the UI and changes the UX only for the better),
  • does not interfere with Alt(Opt) + clicking for solo mode, since we are talking about Alt(Opt) + dragginghere (choose a different modifier for drag-cloning, if you consider it a problem),
  • should be absolutely non-controversial as a most helpful option that speeds up layer workflows considerably,
  • and does not break any existing workflow (if you don’t want to use it, just leave it aside).

Considering these arguments, I think there’s really no good reason for not implementing this feature, and honestly, its implementation should also not fail due to missing workforce capacity. And it’s not that I would have been the only one asking for the feature. Here are a just a few threads that turn up in a superficial forum search:

So when you look at these comments (one could compile a similar list for many, if not all of the other features I mentioned above) and when you see, at the same time, that this simple quality-of-life feature has not yet been implemented, after seven years of development time and countless beta cycles, you cannot help to think “Well, they do theirs, don’t hold your breath.” Which will, inevitably, cause frustration. 🙁

I’m not saying this in order to bash the Affinity team or diminish their efforts. I just believe that after the great process they made with the new versions, it would be time to seriously turn their attention to these small features that come at virtually no development cost and would improve our daily lives tremendously. 🙂

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4 minutes ago, A_B_C said:

I would really love to see improvements in the “little things” along the version 2 development cycle. By “little things” I mean those usability improvements that save us clicks in frequently performed tasks, most of which have extensively been discussed on these forums.

4 minutes ago, A_B_C said:

I’m not saying this in order to bash the Affinity team or diminish their efforts. I just believe that after the great process they made with the new versions, it would be time to seriously turn their attention to these small features that come at virtually no development cost and would improve our daily lives tremendously. 🙂

I couldn't agree more!

 

4 minutes ago, A_B_C said:

Shift+drag to constrain the aspect ratio of the Crop Tool rectangle in Photo

Speaking of constraining the aspect ratio, another UI annoyance I should have mentioned in my OP is the inconsistent way grouped and non-grouped items respond to the Shift modifier. With ungrouped items, you hold down Shift to constrain the proportions, and with grouped items it's the exact opposite! It's a perfect example of bad UX, where you're forcing the user to have to stop and think, 'are these items grouped?' before performing the operation. It shouldn't matter!! I don't want to stop and think about such details while I'm working, so in practice, I just start with the Shift key down, and then let it go if it's doing the opposite of what I want it to.

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6 minutes ago, Kal said:

I didn't mean to sound pompous or condescending by referring to 'pros'. Neither did I meant to be divisive (us vs them).

That's fair enough. I didn't read your comment like that, but one or two people have appeared that way.

What I don't want to see is some users thinking they are the 'four legs good' animals ('the pros') and the rest of us are the 'two legs bad' ('ordinary' users) and our two-legged opinions count less. I still have my needs for this software. 

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6 minutes ago, Kal said:

Speaking of constraining the aspect ratio, another UI annoyance I should have mentioned in my OP is the inconsistent way grouped and non-grouped items respond to the Shift modifier. With ungrouped items, you hold down Shift to constrain the proportions, and with grouped items it's the exact opposite! It's a perfect example of bad UX, where you're forcing the user to have to stop and think, 'are these items grouped?' before performing the operation. It shouldn't matter!! I don't want to stop and think about such details while I'm working, so in practice, I just start with the Shift key down, and then let it go if it's doing the opposite of what I want it to.

But this may be due to the settings you made under Preferences > Tools > Move Tool Aspect Constrain. Set this to Do not constrain by default, and you should be fine. 🙂

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31 minutes ago, A_B_C said:

But this may be due to the settings you made under Preferences > Tools > Move Tool Aspect Constrain. Set this to Do not constrain by default, and you should be fine. 🙂

Thanks!! Done. 😊 I don't believe I ever 'made' that setting, so I'm assuming the 'Automatic (based on selection)' (i.e. inconsistent) behaviour is the default?

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9 hours ago, Kal said:

I'm assuming you can still use variable fonts in Affinity, but that you are just limited to a standard set of weights (normal, bold, etc). Or cannot you not use them at all? (I confess, I haven't tried.)

You cannot. Something garbled did render as I tried, but it’s completely broken and unusable.

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8 hours ago, Kal said:

… so I'm assuming the 'Automatic (based on selection)' (i.e. inconsistent) behaviour is the default?

Yes, unfortunately. In general, I don’t like it when an application tries to be smarter than I am (which, in itself, may not be too difficult for any entity other than an app), so that was among the first settings I change when I installed the Affinity suite anew. 😉

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Regarding variable fonts, they are unusable. While the master instances (maybe also other instances, I haven’t checked) are displayed in the style dropdown menu, the Affinity apps seem to read the metrics information for each instance from the main master. Which, of course, creates that kind of garbled mess @tatanka reported. (Other issues may be present as well.)

Concerning the text engine, it is difficult to understand why the implementation does not make use of existing libraries. What are the expected gains of trying to develop a new text shaping engine, when a reliable and time-proven system like Harfbuzz is readily available? 😟

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9 hours ago, LondonSquirrel said:

What I don't want to see is some users thinking they are the 'four legs good' animals ('the pros') and the rest of us are the 'two legs bad' ('ordinary' users) and our two-legged opinions count less. I still have my needs for this software.

I would really appreciate it if we could just discuss the software here and no one had to discuss themselves, feel offended by the wishes of others, or be allergic to the term "professional". This forum is about software and not about the personality of individual users, not about belief and not about the bad guys versus the good guys (may it be users or companies, especially in relation to another software provider that starts with a capital "A").

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34 minutes ago, chessboard said:

I would really appreciate it if we could just discuss the software here and no one had to discuss themselves, feel offended by the wishes of others, or be allergic to the term "professional". This forum is about software and not about the personality of individual users, not about belief and not about the bad guys versus the good guys (may it be users or companies, especially in relation to another software provider that starts with a capital "A").

It would really raise the level in here, so that would be nice.

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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1 hour ago, chessboard said:

I would really appreciate it if we could just discuss the software here and no one had to discuss themselves, feel offended by the wishes of others, or be allergic to the term "professional".

And to contribute to this and keep the forum clean, the Ignore button appearing when hovering over an avatar may be a great help.

Paolo

 

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6 minutes ago, PaoloT said:

And to contribute to this and keep the forum clean, the Ignore button appearing when hovering over an avatar may be a great help.

Paolo

That is ineffective symptom management. It is not individual ad hoc symptom management that he wants. He is asking for a factual and tribal warfare free debate environment.

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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30 minutes ago, PaoloT said:

Unfortunately, some individuals are incurable.

They do not suffer from anything that offline life experience as employees or participants in a larger workplace or professional environment (e.g. volunteering in a larger organisation) cannot cure.

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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For the basics, the apps are well suited for non-power users. Someone who needs to crop, do light touch ups, exports, create a tshirt design for themselves every now and then. Not people who would ever benefit from a highly focused workflow, which is what the Affinity apps (hopefully) seem to be working towards doing skillfully.

I don't perceive they will ignore their broader base. These are the people who seem to give the more straightforward feedback (arguably more useful) as they actually will talk more openly about how they are making use of the products and from that, easier to see what they are well-suited to. So it's prudent here to focus in where it is really working.

I don't get that sense as much here on the forums how others use the programs. It is hard to tell who uses the program actively and who just bought the suite to support a "cause". Though more will say often than not what it doesn't do well comparable to other systems, not that this feedback is not also valuable, but it doesn't tell us why people use the programs and what their needs and usecases are. So I think any feedback disconnected from the purpose it serves (end user) makes it harder to determine the priority for them and potentially others sharing similar workflows. We know the suite can certainly use more fleshing out and adding of features, but if it is not fun to use, from what I can tell that loses appeal for many as there are already capable alternatives. For example, Illustrator is certainly more useful and productive, but it is soul-stealing to use for my specific workflows.

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49 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

As I wrote, some people are wrapping up their wants and needs in the words "the professional needs" or words like that. Their needs are not more important than mine. They are not a more valuable customer as they pay the same price as me.

You should see the elitism between video editors. There Hollywood editors despise even tv guys and oh no wedding photographers... And all hate amateurs. So I can totally understand the allergic reaction to arguments that try to get more weight with "I'm a pro". I sadly don't know how to avoid this.

Mac mini M1 / Ryzen 5600H & RTX3050 mobile / iPad Pro 1st - all with latest non beta release of Affinity

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58 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

As I wrote, some people are wrapping up their wants and needs in the words "the professional needs" or words like that. Their needs are not more important than mine. They are not a more valuable customer as they pay the same price as me.

Well, without doubt there are "professional needs". I understand this to mean, among other things, speed, reliability even on a very large scale, precision, and the ability to streamline and automate workflows. However, the existence of special professional needs does not diminish the needs of users who do not use the software for a living, but may be even the same in some parts. I don't know who said otherwise (I don't read or know each comment in this forum).

Professional or not says nothing about the quality of work that is done with the software nor the users themselves. So no need to feel personally attacked when the term "professional" is used.

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Real professionals don't whine all the time on discussion forums. They make suggestions and work using other tools if the ones they have don't fulfill their needs.

They usually don't cry for $50.

-- Window 11 - 32 gb - Intel I7 - 8700 - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060
-- iPad Pro 2020 - 12,9 - 256 gb - Apple Pencil 2 -- iPad 9th gen 256 gb - Apple Pencil 1
-- Macbook Air 15"

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14 minutes ago, chessboard said:

So no need to feel personally attacked when the term "professional" is used.

It still seems that you do not get my point. I am saying that some people, in various threads, have written words along the line of "what Serif needs to be a professional tool", or "professionals require", or "speaking as a professional" followed by the list of things they want. They are using special pleading wrapped up with the words "professional". They seem to be trying to get their wish list to the top of the big wish list of people who they do not term professional, as though their needs are more important.

These programs are about £30 each. Yet supposed "professionals" are complaining.

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Why not just ignore them who take themselves and their needs too seriously? I don't think Serif values their requirements more highly just because they call themselves professionals. I hardly think Serif actually keeps a list of user requests here from the forum. At least they have ignored most of them in the past years. It is still a big mystery what Serif plans to do with its suite and what suggestions and needs they will take into account. Therefore, it is completely irrelevant whether some users consider their needs to be more important than those of other users. JM2C.

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31 minutes ago, LondonSquirrel said:

These programs are about £30 each. Yet supposed "professionals" are complaining.

This is what I have trouble with in all of the negative posting going on in a wide variety of threads: the price versus the complaints. I sure don't consider myself a pro by any stretch of the imagination, but...

  • I use Photo for book covers, both e-book and print.
  • I use Publisher to format my print books for upload to Ingram Spark and Amazon POD distributing. Thanks to this software, my POD interiors rival that of the Big 5 publishers.

V2 now serves my purposes outlined above. V1 has saved me thousands of dollars in publishing costs. I expect v2 to do the same. I will continue to chug along doing what I do best. Unsolicited advice: Perhaps the complainers should try doing the same, rather than waste time complaining about what isn't there, what should be there, what works, what doesn't work, and on and on.

Also, there is v1 to go back to if v2 doesn't make anyone happy.

/endofrant

Edited to add that I've been using the Affinity Serif products for two years. I bought the threesome on sale for around 25 bucks each, if I remember correctly. Thanks, Serif, and carry on regardless.

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