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This is a suggestion, I feel more confortable buying a software that I know I can "own" and no servers are needed to activate.

I own a legal copy of Adobe CS3 Web Premium, have the box and everything and after I couldnt install it recently contacted Adobe. They shut down the servers, so people with a legal copy cant activate the software... (needed a software which they no longer sell even in subscription)

Or maybe a promise that we get offline activation at the end of the V2 lifecycle?

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1 hour ago, Peccavi said:

I own a legal copy of Adobe CS3 Web Premium

Unfortunately you don't truly 'own' it.

I too would love the security of knowing that I could carry on using the software I pay for in the future, even in the event that Serif should no longer be around. However, I'll repeat what I just posted in another thread:

Technically, we don't, and have never, 'owned' software - even in the days when we bought it in a box from the store. We are only ever granted a license to use it.

We're paying for the right to use someone else's software, under certain conditions and terms. Online registrations, dongles and now subscription models are ways the software companies introduced to try ensure we remain complient with those terms and conditions.

Frequently, when companies talk about a 'lifetime' of usage, they don't mean the lifetime of the person who purchased it - they mean the 'lifetime' of the product. Which is a fairy vague guarantee at best, but tends to end when they stop supporting it and move on to another version.

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8 minutes ago, Jimo said:

Unfortunately you don't truly 'own' it.

I too would love the security of knowing that I could carry on using the software I pay for in the future, even in the event that Serif should no longer be around. However, I'll repeat what I just posted in another thread:

Technically, we don't, and have never, 'owned' software - even in the days when we bought it in a box from the store. We are only ever granted a license to use it.

We're paying for the right to use someone else's software, under certain conditions and terms. Online registrations, dongles and now subscription models are ways the software companies introduced to try ensure we remain complient with those terms and conditions.

Frequently, when companies talk about a 'lifetime' of usage, they don't mean the lifetime of the person who purchased it - they mean the 'lifetime' of the product. Which is a fairy vague guarantee at best, but tends to end when they stop supporting it and move on to another version.

I know I only own the right to use it. But with offline activation that cant be revoked after the end of product lifecycle. With online activation I can only use the software while I can connect to that server. Lot of companies give you a chance to activate online, which is easy and with a little bit of workaround you get an offline activation...

My point is not to literally own the software, I only want to be sure that if I buy it once I will be able to use it even after V3,V4,... release without a server...

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I hate how they now require internet to activate. My biggest reason for choosing Affinity was the ability to activate it offline.

In the future they could do all sorts of things, remove activation servers, only make certain versions eligible for activation, deactivate certain versions, revoke your account. A ton of things. A lot of work being made on projects now could become inaccessible in the future when the activation servers dissapear.

They can promise a bunch of things but that doesn't ensure anything before it's actually done.

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That's true. And even if other companies do the same things (not only with graphic software but for example also MS with their Office) it would be big advantage of Serif to behave differently.

Especially that - excuse me but that's how things look like - Serif is much more likely to bankrupt one day than Adobe (which disables old version for another reason of course)

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1 hour ago, Peccavi said:

I know I only own the right to use it. But with offline activation that cant be revoked after the end of product lifecycle.

Yes.  I know I don't "own" the software but I am not looking for a right to sell or distribute it or dig into the source code or anything like that.  I only want to right to continue to use the software for as long as I have a means (i.e., a compatible OS) to run that software.

 

1 hour ago, ATP said:

I hate how they now require internet to activate. My biggest reason for choosing Affinity was the ability to activate it offline.

That was one of the big reasons for me too.  I grabbed V2 right away, but I won't be using it.  I'm not asking for a refund and will hold on to the slightest, most likely negligible hope that they might offer a reliable method to activate offline in some future update.

In the meantime, I'll continue using V1 but, quite honestly, I'm no longer excited to use it as it's clear now there's no future for Affinity products for me.

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1 hour ago, Mark Ingram said:

You can purchase from Microsoft or Apple stores instead if you feel more comfortable. Those licences are tied to their services instead. 

Related: You can activate your licence then remain completely disconnected from the internet. It’s a one-time check. 

That is even worse, now your purchase is tied to a third-party and if the program is ever removed from the store you're just out of luck. You're also forced to use the newest version if a reinstall is needed.

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6 minutes ago, ATP said:

You're also forced to use the newest version if a reinstall is needed.

No, you're not, as previous versions will be available from Serif as they were for V1. And they will be able to run if you have linked a non-Affinity Store purchase to your Affinity account. (That's new, as with V1 you couldn't use a download from Serif if you purchased from Microsoft or Apple.)

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.5, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.5

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

No, you're not, as previous versions will be available from Serif

I don't see how that would work on iPad, though.

2 hours ago, Mark Ingram said:

You can purchase from Microsoft or Apple stores instead if you feel more comfortable. Those licences are tied to their services instead. 

Related: You can activate your licence then remain completely disconnected from the internet. It’s a one-time check. 

Well, it's still tied to a store (server running and product available), you're still depending on that. I did run into situations with various softwares being removed or changing ownership and license terms which I wasn't happy with. Had to discontinue usage of those softwares. One doesn't really want that risk if not needed.

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

And they will be able to run if you have linked a non-Affinity Store purchase to your Affinity account. (That's new, as with V1 you couldn't use a download from Serif if you purchased from Microsoft or Apple.)

But in such case license check will be made on the Serif servers?

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6 minutes ago, Designer1234 said:

So the license file can be copied and used for example on the new machine? Is it stored in C:\... \AppData\Local?

You may not move it manually, but you can install on as many computers as you control as the license allow with or without deactivating earlier registrations. Simply sign on to your Affinity ID on the new computer (which it goes without saying requires an internet connection, which was I think your point)

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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Just now, Designer1234 said:

But in such case license check will be made on the Serif servers?

Yes

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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13 minutes ago, shushustorm said:

I don't see how that would work on iPad, though.

No, it won't work for iPad, as the apps come only from the iPad store.

 

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.5, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.5

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Not that I expect Serif to do this, but I dream that someday it will be standard practice for all software companies to support eternal license servers.

By that I mean:

  • The EULA stipulates that as long as the company operates, it will supply an accessible license server for the purpose of registering or re-registering any of its licensed software, no matter how old.
     
  • If the intellectual property rights for any application become the property of another entity, through transfer, sale, merger, or buy-out, the obligation to continue running the license server will now belong to the acquiring entity.
     
  • If for any reason the responsible company/entity will not or cannot continue to operate a license server for a given application, its code and databases will be placed into the public domain, freely available such that that application may be registered and used by anyone.
     
  • The EULA stipulates that these provisions cannot be subsequently removed or reduced through updates to the EULA.

That seems only fair, and reasonable.

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3 hours ago, Patrick Connor said:

You may not move it manually, but you can install on as many computers as you control as the license allow with or without deactivating earlier registrations. Simply sign on to your Affinity ID on the new computer (which it goes without saying requires an internet connection, which was I think your point)

That's user friendly for online activation, but can you run into trouble installing it too often? I mean like 1-2 times a month or so. Not hundrets of times.

There is always the fear of doing something wrong when you install your software when some kind of heuristic blocking mechanism is involved...

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4 hours ago, Corgi said:

Not that I expect Serif to do this, but I dream that someday it will be standard practice for all software companies to support eternal license servers.

By that I mean:

  • The EULA stipulates that as long as the company operates, it will supply an accessible license server for the purpose of registering or re-registering any of its licensed software, no matter how old.
     
  • If the intellectual property rights for any application become the property of another entity, through transfer, sale, merger, or buy-out, the obligation to continue running the license server will now belong to the acquiring entity.
     
  • If for any reason the responsible company/entity will not or cannot continue to operate a license server for a given application, its code and databases will be placed into the public domain, freely available such that that application may be registered and used by anyone.
     
  • The EULA stipulates that these provisions cannot be subsequently removed or reduced through updates to the EULA.

That seems only fair, and reasonable.

Fair and reasonable sometimes is out of the control of the corporations. Throughout the years, two big league players have used what seemed to be very unfair practices. One example is Corel. They purchased a corp called Ulead, which had a video editing software called MediaStudio Pro. It was eating Final Cut Pro's lunch. The professional editors, some with major networks, swore by MediaStudio, and complained that FCP would crash so much they couldn't get much work done.

When Corel bought Ulead, they shelved MediaStudio, stopped, refused to allow any production or sell of that product. It made no sense why they would do that. Needless to say people were very, very upset with this.

You ever hear of Macromedia? I remember when Adobe bought out Macromedia. They then started doing away with as much of those products created by Macromedia. I think Macromedia Flash was about the first they trashed.

My point is, the software we purchase today, may be gone tomorrow. It's called big business, and sometimes big business is just about how much they can get selling to a larger one. You can't convince me that if some day in the future, Adobe or any other huge corporation would approach Serif with an offer to buy the Affinity software for $20 billion, they would not seriously consider.

Affinity Photo 2.4..; Affinity Designer 2.4..; Affinity Publisher 2.4..; Affinity2 Beta versions. Affinity Photo,Designer 1.10.6.1605 Win10 Home Version:21H2, Build: 19044.1766: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5820K CPU @ 3.30GHz, 3301 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s);32GB Ram, Nvidia GTX 3070, 3-Internal HDD (1 Crucial MX5000 1TB, 1-Crucial MX5000 500GB, 1-WD 1 TB), 4 External HDD

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6 hours ago, pixelworker said:

but can you run into trouble installing it too often? I mean like 1-2 times a month or so. Not hundrets of times.

No, not as far as I know. There is monitoring but nothing that will block you in this case. Reinstalling on the same machine counts as one use, so cannot get you in trouble 

Patrick Connor
Serif Europe Ltd

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility lies in being superior to your previous self."  W. L. Sheldon

 

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38 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

No, not as far as I know. There is monitoring but nothing that will block you in this case. Reinstalling on the same machine counts as one use, so cannot get you in trouble 

Back to the original question… is there a possibility of offline activation, even if it comes at the end of the lifecycle of the product?

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Just in case this is missing one: A shining example for this issue is MindNode (as stated, only one of several softwares that I had to discontinue usage).
I used it excessively. Until they went that road:

1. Early versions: One time direct purchase from the App Store (great!).
2. Later versions: Free app (trial) and IAP for unlocking the software (uncertain future!)
3. Current versions: Subscription (ugh).

They even just replaced 2. with 3., so at some point, just by updating your IAP software, you were suddenly using subscription software. The whole thing just changed its terms. Granted, they did make sure previous users could still use the features they once purchased, but that's only them investing time for the sake of being reasonable.

Affinity is now at 2. Not saying 3. will ever be the next step. I sure hope not, especially considering their marketing.

When I want to move to a new hardware, I backup and restore from backup. Works with Mac, iPad, iPhone, wonderfully. Restores all the applications, .ipas as well on iOS, all the licenses. However, IAPs aren't restored. And being able to unlock the software again, years from now, is pure speculation. You're at the mercy of the company (and Apple!) not just leaving the product available for existing customers, but also the according IAP for a product that may be considered obsolete at that point.
You may want to go through your own iOS App Store purchase history and if you didn't do that before, you may be surprised how many apps aren't available for download any more (even with the cloud symbol being displayed!). Don't know how many are shown, but unavailable on my list (have faced that occassionally), but even just the obvious ones: For me, 35 cloud symbols are missing. At that point, it's reasonable to assume (not completely certain, you still may try!) their IAPs are gone as well and your IAP software is "lost" once you have to restore from a backup or move to a new machine.

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