Possible ongoing concerted attack on Affinity 2 on these forums

[Distill7]

44 minutes ago, Poor Composition said:

People are acknowledging that. That's why people are unhappy. I bought the software 80 days before Serif abandoned it.  There is nothing reasonable about expecting someone to be satisfied with that situation. It shouldn't be "cool if it works" - it should be something that can be relied upon to work.

Serif should be addressing this in a way that doesn't involve buying a new product without consideration for what was just paid and the limited value provided. That's easily the worst customer service I've experienced from a software vendor.

I think someone contacted them and they replied that if you bought V1 90 days before V2 release you can another discount on top of the %40.

[fde101]

18 minutes ago, rawii22 said:

On their website since 2020

Yes, and it has been mentioned on the forums a number of times as well.

 

In fact, when Designer was first introduced, one of the earliest messages I can find about this simply stated there would be no paid upgrades for at least 18 months - that was nearly 8 years ago:

 

In 2015 it was stated explicitly that there would be paid upgrades in the future (which obviously has now come):

 

Also that the next major upgrade would not be free:

 

Later in 2015 they committed to 2 years of free updates from Photo's launch date (they gave us what, 6-7 years?):

 

In late 2016 it was reiterated again that major version upgrades would be for a price:

 

Again in 2017:

 

The messaging has been consistent on this ever since the very beginning.

As to the lack of upgrade pricing, that is necessitated by App Store rules - it is Apple you should be complaining to about that, not Serif.

[rawii22]

21 minutes ago, fde101 said:

The messaging has been consistent on this ever since the very beginning.

Did your research! Thanks for compiling those links, I'll have to pin this post since so many people are griping about it...

[CH Trippe]

I have been using Affinity Photo pretty much since its inception, but only in the last couple years have I used it for more complex, layers compositions, so that I've gradually gotten to understand more of what it can do, and I love it.  I now use it nearly every day, so I have switched to V2, not because V1 didn't work very well for me, but because I don't want to miss out on future upgrades.  I will probably keep V1 just in case there are problems. I do understand that V2 documents won't open in V1, but if I were to create future documents in V1, I could work on them later in V2. It seems like a pretty good compromise. 

I don't yet know how much better V2 will be  than V1, for my purposes, but after using it for only a day or two,   since V2 JUST came out,  it would be difficult for me  to complain.  I do know that major upgrades sometimes change the appearance of things, which can be a bit disconcerting,  and that's something you have to get used to.Some  things do look different in V2 --- they are placed a bit differently, the icons are different, etc .A little  patience is required, and if you are really a dedicated user, you can figure it out. Or ask a question on the forum, or watch one of the many tutorials.  And real glitches do get fixed.

I have been using Affinity long enough (I don't consider myself an expert -- I'm somewhere in the "intermediate" category of user probably)  to be aware of how much better it has gotten over the years. So I am really looking forwarding to marching onwards with V2. 

[Poor Composition]

2 minutes ago, rawii22 said:

Did your research! Thanks for compiling those links, I'll have to pin this post since so many people are griping about it...

It just shows that Serif was at some point selling a Version 1 while telling people Version 2 wasn't currently planned. It is proof that people have a reason to be be making what are legitimate complaints, not gripes. Unless Serif didn't plan it and somehow released Version 2 accidentally...

[Patrick Connor]

8 hours ago, Medical Officer Bones said:

If I were the moderators, I would investigate if a concerted attack is going on to undermine the v2 release. It seems rather suspicious

When you wake up 1,000,000+ customers with an email many will find their important feature has not been implemented. Please don't think this is an attack, they are real owners with real concerns. 

Particularly do not harass upset newbies, they can only be calmed by listening and NOT by accusing them of being part of some conspiracy to undermine us. 

[Patrick Connor]

52 minutes ago, Poor Composition said:

Except they are addressing it, with some people. There have been people receiving free upgrades or a 50% discount on top of the 40%

Unless all of those people are lying. 

Those were sent to customers who we already knew had just bought (in the last few weeks) at full price 

[Fritz_H]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

When you wake up 1,000,000+ customers with an email many will find their important feature has not been implemented. Please don't think this is an attack, they are real owners with real concerns. 

Particularly do not harass upset newbies, they can only be calmed by listening and NOT by accusing them of being part of some conspiracy to undermine us. 

Sadly I was right with my assumption, that the far too long period of Serif-silence let expectation rise too high.

[Corgi]

A "concerted attack" feels very unlikely. If I were some company employee who wanted to undermine a competitor's product, I wouldn't bother complaining about a missing feature, or installation restrictions. I'd want to complain about something much more broad, that would cause potential new purchasers to think twice.

And what would motivate this coordinated attack? If it's a competitor, who might it be? I'm not seeing a lot of love for Adobe voiced in these complaints...and justifiably so!

It's totally unsurprising that people create new accounts to complain. It's also totally unsurprising that some complainers had been dormant for an extended period. And any major new release of any product is liable to unleash a flood of new critics.

The question is, which complaints are valid, and which are not. Examples of invalid complaints are falsely alleging that Affinity is now on a subscription model, or that v1 should be supported (with bug fixes) for life.

But it is equally indisputable that Serif messed up big-time in a few ways. People who purchased v1 within the last few months have every right to be upset if they get no price break on v2 whatsoever. People who had problem-free Windows installations on v1 have every right to fume if the v2 installation method doesn't fit their needs. 

My overarching concerns are that Serif didn't anticipate these foreseeable problems, and that they have so far not reacted well to the complaints. It's possible that the root cause is an excessive need for secrecy within Serif (both prior to release, and since then). Yes, it's early days, and maybe (hopefully) we will hear something next week, such as firm policy announcements about what they will or won't do with respect to these valid concerns.

I am feverishly hoping that Serif comes through, because I'm a huge fan of v1, and want to support their business model. The character of a company is revealed in how it responds to, and learns from, its mistakes.

[Pyanepsion]

@fde101, when I asked QuarkXPress for an explanation in 2018 and then again in 2020, they said that it would then be the last vintage from my purchase that would be for life and then that there would be no more upgrades on my version unless I took up a subscription. Maybe they have changed since then.

@Poor Composition, you are one of the least snarky, which is to your credit. However, we have to take your word for it when you say you bought Affinity software, apparently Affinity Photo, at the end of August. If that’s really the case, then you probably got a discounted price.

A few weeks ago, I paid 2.11 for a litre of gas and couldn’t understand why the cashier was staring at me strangely in the window. I figured it out soon after: he had just applied the 1.91 price right after I activated the pump to apply his company’s bonus. It happens! There’s no need to make a big deal of it.

In your case, you either don’t like the software, or don’t use it much, and then you have no reason to update it. The v1 version is already very pleasant and will probably work for a long time. Or you like it and you believe in its potential. In that case, you should hurry up while you can take advantage of the promotional offer (what’s €49 when it covers a real need financed in barely 1 hour of work?), and, moreover, you will support a company you like. Wouldn’t that be more reasonable than putting on a bad face for so little?

And, if you are a professional, the question of whether you like it or not does not arise: you will have to buy version 2 to be able to work either on version 1 and on version 2 to remain compatible with your customers’ version…

[Patrick Connor]

4 minutes ago, Corgi said:

People who purchased v1 within the last few months have every right to be upset if they get no price break on v2 whatsoever.

This isn't what has happened. We have sent emails to everyone we could determine had bought in the past few weeks and given them the equivalent V2 for free. Those complaining have normally owned for more than a few months but less than a year

[fde101]

3 minutes ago, Pyanepsion said:

@fde101, when I asked QuarkXPress for an explanation in 2018 and then again in 2020, they said that it would then be the last vintage from my purchase that would be for life and then that there would be no more upgrades on my version unless I took up a subscription. Maybe they have changed since then.

Not sure what that conversation was, but I have QuarkXPress 2022 and it is not a subscription.  The update plan is an annual subscription to get updated versions with a perpetual license - if I stop paying for that I keep the version I have.

What they are not doing any more is offering one-off upgrades.  You don't get updates to the 2022 version just because you have the 2022 version, but need to have either the subscription license or the update plan at the time a given update comes out.

[Corgi]

12 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

This isn't what has happened. We have sent emails to everyone we could determine had bought in the past few weeks and given them the equivalent V2 for free. Those complaining have normally owned for more than a few months but less than a year

That's why I wrote, "if they get no price break" and not "that they got no price break" 😉

Edit: I think people who purchased v1, say, 2 months ago, have a valid complaint if they don't get some sort of price break on v2. A few weeks doesn't cover it.

I recall seeing a number of complaints from people who said they'd just recently purchased v1, and they seemed unaware of any further discount. My point is that Serif should have made a policy statement about this at (or prior to) announce time. And, to my knowledge, there still hasn't been an official statement. Perhaps there's been one that I haven't seen, and if so, I apologize on that score.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Corgi
Amended opinion

[Poor Composition]

32 minutes ago, Patrick Connor said:

Those were sent to customers who we already knew had just bought (in the last few weeks) at full price 

Thank you for taking the time to clarify. 

[Designer1234]

I think that you don't understand one thing. Personally I totally agree that Affinity (Photo :)) is still incredibly cheap piece of great software. It was extremely cheap before the price rise and during the COVID sale but as some people shown it still cost the same as VectorStyler, less than DxO PhotoLab 6 ELITE, much less than ON1 Photo RAW 2023, Acdsee Photo Studio 2023, CorelDraw 2023, Adobe subscription etc... 

But - unfortunately, we often judge prices by the price of other products and services and our need for them.
Affinity can be cheap, but if you get only a few new tools as well as some big annoying problems - you probably won't be keen to spend your money if you don't have really strong belief that problems will be fixed or that your duty is to support Serif for what they provide.

It can be unreasonable. For example - and forgive me that stupid example but it perfectly illustrates this paradox - do you now how much can cost.. a dildo? A simple piece of silicone? Well, it can be 20-30€ and people pay for it without hesitation.  Some stupid decorative statues? Even these from cheap stores costs often around 20€ Not mentioning collector's items...  Or something more serious - commercial medical consultation. In my country it's usually between 40€ and 80€. For ten minutes usually  For all these things people pay when they feel strong desire of getting them or they have strong objective need. 

And then it comes latest Affinity v2 release...
You see - I don't want to blame Serif for their generosity or still quite fair business model but there are a few big mistakes that altogether made many people - not trolls or competitor's agents - disappointed. 

First of all not much info about new release, no roadmap - what raised the expectations. 
Then - depending of you usage scenarios - some important or only a few not so important new features...
...mixed with some serious problems caused by the new installer - that result in closed by default app folder and no aces to exe file and it's path - and some common initial bugs that unfortunately make the negative impression even worse.
And of top of that - no timeframe for sale, which puts pressure on current loyal customers.

That's the worst thing - because even if you feel that you could wait with upgrade or you're not sure if you need it, you either buy it now (cheaper) with all other clients or you get nothing in the future. 

Spending 50€ can be no problem at all. Spending the same amount of money for something you don't need - even though other things you need/"you need" are highly overpriced etc. - can be frustrating, especially if you feel forced to do so.

And yes, some people were wishing to Serif and expecting even greater progress.
And it's also irritating when you read that Affinity is extremely cheap - with hidden suggestion that they can't do more/better because they can bankrupt etc and you should lover your expectations - while in the same time THEY OFFER EXTREMLEY LOW PRICE TO EVERYONE even though all these people won't purchase anything more from Serif in next couple of years. 

It's like complaining that your country budget has huge debt and still supporting payment of high social benefits

[Jimo]

45 minutes ago, fde101 said:

Not sure what that conversation was, but I have QuarkXPress 2022 and it is not a subscription.

Quark have TWO ways of paying:

A subscription model where you pay annualy - if you cancel you can't use QuarkExpress (like Adobe's model)

OR you can pay for an upfront perpetual licence to 'own' it, which entitles you to one year of updates. When that ends, you still have an active copy to use indefinitely, or you can pay another fee to get updates for another year. And as far as I'm aware, you can opt back into that at any time when you decide you want to start getting the latest updates again.

[Designer1234]

1 hour ago, Patrick Connor said:

This isn't what has happened. We have sent emails to everyone we could determine had bought in the past few weeks and given them the equivalent V2 for free

And that's a really cool thing. 

BTW aside of that I'd like to add one more thing - ironically I wrote somewhere on this message board a few months ago that in my opinion Serif should rise the basic price by 100% to get more money and to cut the suggestions that they don't have enough funds for further development ... but they should offer some discount for current owners.

Unfortunately there is no upgrade plan or discount, only a limited sale for everyone - as I stated above I think that's the biggest problem.

Perhaps only for amateurs - for professionals even full price for such a tool, paid only once, it's like getting it for free - but still it is a problem, especially that I had an impression that amateurs are also a target of Serif software. 

[Poor Composition]

16 minutes ago, François R said:

 

What someone experiences in here is something you will experience often in your life. You buy a flat screen/washer/expensive shirt in week 12, and in week 14 you see it on sale. Life consists of a lot of luck and bad luck and timing, but there is no kindergarten protection of you in adulthood. I understand you who bought v1 the last few months, but I have so many times in mine experienced the same annoyance, and then moved on. 

I was taught growing up that part of being an adult was learning to stand up for yourself. Childhoods vary, I guess.

[Ana-Irina]

I love Affinity. I own 8 Affinity V1 licenses: 3 for Mac (Designer, Publisher, Photo), 3 for Windows (same), 2 for Ipad (Designer and Photo). I bought V2 on the spot, I would even agree to a subscription model or paid upgrades. It pains meto see that a piece of software that truly enjoy using has gotten worse, because it has. The reason I am here, on this forum, is to provide feedback and hope that the Serif team will be open to at least consider this feedback.  

As far as I can tell, there is no "coordinated attack" against anything. We are all Affinity users here. Most of the comments I see, including my own, are very specific, with screenshots, examples, notes, suggestions. People are taking the time to suggest improvements, they are not here to simply complain and cause trouble for the Serif team. This launch was highly anticipated, so one can expect that people had expectations and were disappointed that those expectation weren't met. So instead of interpreting what seems to be people expressing opinions  as something nefarious, maybe we should be thankful that there are so many people willing to take the time, give feedback and learn.

[Designer1234]

Personally I felt like I was stealing when I paid such a low price for that software back in the 2021- but the truth is that as an amateur I wouldn't pay full price (which still I consider fair) for an upgrade because it doesn't represent such a high value for me and I can't plan purchasing it in the future because I don't know whether there will be another offers or another new functions that will justify purchasing for the full price (which is still fair for the new users, it reaches the limit of affordability for amateurs, but they have to balance it if they want target their soft more towards the pro). On the other hand I'd like to support Serif because it's still extremely cheap and to be honest it's the only affordable photo editing software for such people like me.

Perhaps some would say that as an amateur I should rather use Krita nad buy some fancy AI PhotoEditor... but the price would be the same or 2-3x higher

To conclude, as you can se, dear topic author, each story is different  

[debraspicher]

8 hours ago, tudor said:

That’s what you get when:

• The price of admission is very low ➡️ you attract a lot of users who will always complain about prices.
• Don’t have a roadmap, no public beta-testing for the major software releases, overhyped marketing before launch, bugs from v1 still not fixed in v2  ➡️ you end up disappointing some pro users.

And of course, there are some of them who just like to annoy anyone who is genuinely happy with what Affinity offers. But the main source of negativity on the forums is caused by Affinity’s own actions. 

It's a customer service forum. New users signing up just to complain is practically a daily ritual around here. It's how many of us are introduced to one another. We get to know each others pet peeves.

[Jimo]

10 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

It's a customer service forum. New users signing up just to complain is practically a daily ritual around here. It's how many of us are introduced to one another. We get to know each others pet peeves.

It's also just a sort of general 'rule of nature'. Most people are only going to feel compelled to make the effort to express their views when they feel aggrieved by something. When they're happy and content they just get on with their lives.

People don't take to the streets chanting and carrying placards to express how happy they are with what the government are doing!

[François R]

2 hours ago, Poor Composition said:

I was taught growing up that part of being an adult was learning to stand up for yourself. Childhoods vary, I guess.

I then got the bonus education of learning that I wasn't always right. Genuine written rights beat imagined rights, every time.

[jussi]

I bought at first Photo and Designer sometimes early 2020 for half price, used it when I needed edit image or make a vector work for my architectural work. then I bought Publisher to try to ease my life when doing studies and presentations for clients, never worked with InDesign or any other similar soft before. sure, there were / are some items on my "missing features" list, but the price was so nice I accepted it and hoped for upgrades to fill the gaps.

when V2 appeared, I tested the DWG import as it would really fit into my workflow and then bought whole package just to be sure all apps are at same level and work together. IMHO, price for 3 graphic apps, where each of them should earn its price in one day work is nothing to discuss here. 

again, new "missing items" appear and again I believe they will be filled in upgrades.

I can understand many users were expecting free update from V1 to V2, or new DAM module, or whatever they're bitching about now. but there are also many of satisfied customers. they just remain silent and enjoy new toys

nice Sunday wherever you are

[Waltarus]

I've been using Affinity Photo for about four years and I actually would have paid more for the new version.  It's by far the best deal out there.  My wife is going to dump Adobe and buy the whole suite for her work.