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I have Deleted V2 and Gone Back to V1


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20 minutes ago, DGee said:

It’d be great if the user could adait the interface via prefs panel to their needs.

We can to a certain degree. It's just so poorly implemented.

With v2 I can't even "hack" my custom checkerboard anymore like in v1 :/ : 

 

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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2 hours ago, Pyanepsion said:

On Windows

This is about Affinity App Preferences, not OS settings.

3 hours ago, loukash said:

Preferences > User Interface > Font UI Site > Large

 

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@Pšenda, I would have found this font size setting in the suite preferences, but I can’t find it. The difficulty is probably that a given font size on a low-resolution screen (1920×1024) is not the same on a high resolution (4K) or very high resolution (plus) screen. On the other hand, with Windows, it works, but then it also disturbs the other software.

😉The addition of this choice in the user preferences would be welcome.

6 cœurs, 12 processus - Windows 11 pro - 4K - DirectX 12 - Suite universelle Affinity (Affinity  Publisher, Affinity Designer, Affinity Photo).

Mais je vous le demande, peut-on imaginer une police sans sérifs ?

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14 hours ago, Pšenda said:

It was enough to use the principle of the Radio Button, which has been used for decades (which also always has extra reference point, because one of the options is always selected).

image.png.93f9d0601a8a6627f0b72bf8bc6ac117.png or better image.png.2cfa86fcc9170625fd48843348cc4e6a.png

Using the contrast/intensity of an element to distinguish the ON/OFF state is inappropriate because this mechanism is and has always been used to indicate the Enable/Disable or Active/Inactive states (in the sense of enabling control of the given element).

That would certainly be an improvement, but Radio Buttons are used for mutual exclusivity - that is, if one option is ON, then all the other options are OFF.

Its called a radio button because e its modelled on the old-fashioned radios where you push a button to select a station,
and of course you can't have two stations playing at the same time !

So it's not appropriate to use radio buttons for something like layers, where any number of items can be ON OR OFF at the same time.

That's why we have check boxes - which work perfectly well (unlike dots, which don't :))

Tell me - is this layer ON or OFF (*see below) ?

image.png.356f3d23472442ca0e15a8c31ffb358e.png

The only way to judge whether this works is to remove the context.
With no adjacent text or other buttons to provide a point of reference, there is no way to know.

Now - tell me whether this one is ON out OFF ...

image.png.6d1c06ba25d5508f04f7ac17c54af2d6.png

You can tell from across the room that this is ON because the button includes its own point of reference.

Checkboxes work, dots do not.

=====

* This layer is ON - but who would know because Ive reduced the display contrast ?

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1 hour ago, Gary.JONES said:

That would certainly be an improvement, but Radio Buttons are used for mutual exclusivity - that is, if one option is ON, then all the other options are OFF.

Its called a radio button because e its modelled on the old-fashioned radios where you push a button to select a station,
and of course you can't have two stations playing at the same time !

So it's not appropriate to use radio buttons for something like layers, where any number of items can be ON OR OFF at the same time.

That's why we have check boxes - which work perfectly well (unlike dots, which don't :))

Tell me - is this layer ON or OFF (*see below) ?

image.png.356f3d23472442ca0e15a8c31ffb358e.png

The only way to judge whether this works is to remove the context.
With no adjacent text or other buttons to provide a point of reference, there is no way to know.

Now - tell me whether this one is ON out OFF ...

image.png.6d1c06ba25d5508f04f7ac17c54af2d6.png

You can tell from across the room that this is ON because the button includes its own point of reference.

Checkboxes work, dots do not.

=====

* This layer is ON - but who would know because Ive reduced the display contrast ?

You could argue that a tick check box makes more sense but they do work as checkboxes, I’ve had zero issues using them, as easy as v1 (and I have been swapping between the two) Have you actually done a project or are you basing things on grabbing the screen?

 

Marc

ArtByMarc.me

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2 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

Checkboxes work, dots do not.

You didn't recognize that the top layer is ON and the bottom is OFF?

image.png.02bb2851728f83ff0261b3abda8fd7b1.png

 

2 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

That would certainly be an improvement, but Radio Buttons are used for mutual exclusivity - that is, if one option is ON, then all the other options are OFF.

I thought it was quite obvious that this was the "visual" side of the Radio Button, i.e. the solid/hollow dot, not the "function", which is of course completely different in the case of layers.

Edited by Pšenda

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On 11/13/2022 at 11:00 AM, Pšenda said:

You didn't recognize that the top layer is ON and the bottom is OFF?

image.png.02bb2851728f83ff0261b3abda8fd7b1.png

 

1 hour ago, Gary.JONES said:

That would certainly be an improvement, but Radio Buttons are used for mutual exclusivity - that is, if one option is ON, then all the other options are OFF.

I thought it was quite obvious that this was the "visual" side of the Radio Button, i.e. the solid/hollow dot, not the "function", which is of course completely different in the case of layers.

Yes - but that does not work in cases where both layers are either OFF or ON.

Only ONE button in a set of radio buttons can be ON - all the others have to be OFF, which of course doesn't work for layers.

That's why we have checkboxes.

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I try to accommodate with all these changes, but I (still) miss the checkboxes on iPad as well. Perhaps people with better eyes have no issues with the new tiny dots but I’d love to see them bigger, even twice as big if possible. Or bring the checkboxes back. There’s nothing wrong with having big, healthy checkboxes :) 

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8 minutes ago, Gary.JONES said:

Yes - but that won't work off both layers are OFF or ON.

Only ONE button in a set of radio buttons can be ON - all the others have to be OFF, which of course doesn't work for layers.

That's why we have checkboxes.

Hmm, you seem to be completely lost on this.
So I try again, all these layers are ON,
image.png.52d870c4dd9b6cd5786902d5150aae62.png

and all these layers are OFF.
image.png.da1944a76cbd2110bb1f17da63c1973c.png

Still not clear and unambiguous?

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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25 minutes ago, Gary.JONES said:

That's why we have checkboxes.

Jokes aside, I agree and I think that having dots instead checkboxes doesn’t improve anything at all. No one asked for tiny, tiresome dots to replace the checkboxes, as far as i know. It doesn’t improve anything upon V1, and I don’t think many users would request dots over checkboxes. They’re tiresome after extensive period of work, and they’re harder to check and uncheck especially on the iPad. My two cents of an opinion.

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On 11/13/2022 at 11:36 AM, Pšenda said:

Hmm, you seem to be completely lost on this.
So I try again, all these layers are ON,
image.png.52d870c4dd9b6cd5786902d5150aae62.png

and all these layers are OFF.
image.png.da1944a76cbd2110bb1f17da63c1973c.png

Still not clear and unambiguous?

No - I am not lost, but you are missing the point.

Radio buttons are INTENDED to be used where the selection is mutually exclusive - read the Apple User Interface guidelines.

When more than one item in a SET (eg a set of layers) can be selected, Radio Buttons are not used because they imply mutual exclusivity.

Checkboxes are used when more than one item in a set can be ON at the same time.

Try playing two or more stations at the same time on your Radio :)

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57 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

I'm fine with the dots as they are. They just need more a bit more contrast.

That's good - I'm sure a lot of people are OK with them.

The thing with designing a good UI is that MOST people need to be OK with them, and they need to be robust and work under an unlimited set of circumstances,
with different monitors, different lighting conditions, and different contrast settings, INCLUDING for users with vision impairment.

Have a selection that DEPENDS on display contrast to avoid ambiguity is simply bad design.

The fact that this and related threads have received so many negative responses supports the general view that users do not like new UI,
some on the basis of 'look and feel' and others on the basis of poor functionality.

IMHO - V2 is a failure on both counts.

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On 11/11/2022 at 2:55 PM, Gary.JONES said:

I think the 'new' look and feel is horrible, and significantly detracts from usability rather than enhancing it.

I agree with some of your thoughts about the UI. Much of the UI is too dim, fonts are too small, and there's not enough contrast for me. Some areas of the UI look like they are in a disabled state (but they aren't), like the Snapping drop-down and Preferences.

Reordering layers was touted in one of the Serif videos as being improved. I don't know if it's better on Apple devices, but on Windows, it's difficult for me to see the difference between dragging a layer to clip, as a child, or above/below another layer.

I like the functionality of v2. I'm happy about some of the features that have been added and was thrilled to discover a couple minor issues in v1 that really bugged me have been corrected. I hope Affinity revisits the UI in v2 and can make some changes to address the contrast and font sizes.

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On 11/11/2022 at 6:37 PM, Gary.JONES said:

IMHO the 'More' button is perfectly sensible - it tucks detaied prefs away where you can set-and-forget, they don't get in your way.

I never liked the More button. ;)

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That's OK - but instead of a 'More' button, now you just have an 'Advanced' button, which does the same thing.

It is poor UI design to attribute a subjective adjective to a button ... what might be 'Advanced' for one is 'Basic' for another. Personally, I cannot see anything I'd describe as 'Advanced' behind that button - its is all 'Basic'.

Also, if you do click the 'Advanced' 'Basic' button, you cannot see any of the controls because the default window is too small.

You have to go ahead and resize the window manually to be able to see the settings - this is just awful.

Also, v2 forces me to look at a Preview whether I want it or not, with a cluttered dialog and an out-of-date Windows-like dropdown, instead of the sleek and elegant, uncluttered interface we had in v1. I see no value at all in a Preview, it just adds further clutter to the screen.

Another gripe - the Format dropdown has no label (bad).

The elegance and simplicity of the v1 dialog has been sacrificed to add 2 more output formats to the dropdown list, which IMHO would have been more sensibly implemented by adding 2 more icons to the v1 export dialog - there is plenty of room - or in the case of JPEG XL, a checkbox on the JPEG export settings.

V2 is beginning to look less and less like a 2022 Mac app.

It looks more like a design that has been dumbed-down to simplify a cross-platform solution, with an implementation that has been rushed to meet a deadline.

Come on Serif - you must be able to do better than this.

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6 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

but you are missing the point.

Radio buttons are INTENDED to be used where the selection is mutually exclusive - read the Apple User Interface guidelines.

When more than one item in a SET (eg a set of layers) can be selected, Radio Buttons are not used because they imply mutual exclusivity.

Checkboxes are used when more than one item in a set can be ON at the same time.

Try playing two or more stations at the same time on your Radio :)

???

7 hours ago, Pšenda said:

I thought it was quite obvious that this was the "visual" side of the Radio Button, i.e. the solid/hollow dot, not the "function", which is of course completely different in the case of layers.

 

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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6 hours ago, MoonaticDestiny said:

Ive always said this but I've grown to love the checkmark box. I want it back. 

I think the use of dots to control layer activity and visibility was an attempt to create a compromise between the oval crosshatch eye and the square checkbox. In my opinion, the solid/hollow dot is a visually understandable and unambiguous replacement that also saves space in the Layers panel (thanks for that).

Affinity Store (MSI/EXE): Affinity Suite (ADe, APh, APu) 2.4.0.2301
Dell OptiPlex 7060, i5-8500 3.00 GHz, 16 GB, Intel UHD Graphics 630, Dell P2417H 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Dell Latitude E5570, i5-6440HQ 2.60 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics 530, 1920 x 1080, Windows 11 Pro, Version 23H2, Build 22631.3155.
Intel NUC5PGYH, Pentium N3700 2.40 GHz, 8 GB, Intel HD Graphics, EIZO EV2456 1920 x 1200, Windows 10 Pro, Version 21H1, Build 19043.2130.

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I have noticed that depending on the screens, used or recent, the solid/hollow dot (the activated or inactivated circles) are very well or poorly distinguished.

Some people would like to go back to ticking. No! I think that would be a step backwards and a misunderstanding. The circle is more sober and visually less tiring than the check mark. Only the contrast should be reviewed and improved.

6 cœurs, 12 processus - Windows 11 pro - 4K - DirectX 12 - Suite universelle Affinity (Affinity  Publisher, Affinity Designer, Affinity Photo).

Mais je vous le demande, peut-on imaginer une police sans sérifs ?

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10 hours ago, Pšenda said:

You didn't recognize that the top layer is ON and the bottom is OFF?

image.png.02bb2851728f83ff0261b3abda8fd7b1.png

 

That would actually be a big improvement over what I am seeing in the app.

The lower dot in your picture here is an outlined circle with the same stroke color as the solid upper dot.

In the actual app, I get a solid dot either way, with the "off" condition (hidden layer) being more dim than the "on" condition.

If the dots actually looked like the ones you listed above that would be MUCH better than what is actually there right now.

Not as good as the checkboxes that were used before, and not as good as an "eye" symbol (and ideally a "printer" symbol next to it to control printing and preview visibility separately, which we have also been asking for now for some time), but certainly better than what version 2 currently offers.

 

That said, the concept of a radio button, as was already explained above, is NOT the correct one here, so I do hope Serif rethinks this and does something even better.

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17 minutes ago, fde101 said:

I get a solid dot either way, with the "off" condition (hidden layer) being more dim than the "on" condition.

@fde101 I'm seeing the same thing as you and agree, the hollow circle would be nicer for the 'off' state. I wonder if it's an Apple/Windows difference. I'm on a Windows computer.

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