I have Deleted V2 and Gone Back to V1

[Didge]

Hi,

I know there is a diversity of opinion of the recent V2 upgrades, but the universal feeling seems to be that it has been a step backwards in terms of the User Interface - there is not a lot in the forums supporting the new changes.

I think the 'new' look and feel is horrible, and significantly detracts from usability rather than enhancing it.

- Why has the Export Persona been so badly mangled ?

- Why has the New Document dialog been similarly treated ?

- What has happened to Separated View mode ?

- Why has so much been made worse, and so little made better ?

- Why are all the fonts so small in the UI ?

- Why are button layouts so clunky and amateurish - ironically, particularly in the UI prefs panel ?

- Why are buttons and fonts so small, when there is far too much empty space in prefs panels ?

- Why don't the apps honor the MacOS 'limit motion' settings ?

- Why has the issue of contrast been so poorly factored into icon design and screen colours ?

- Why do the new icons look like something from a GameBoy app designed for 8-year olds ?

- What is the point of redesigning icons at the expense of fixing bugs ?

- Why do the new icons do a worse job of representing the function of associated buttons ?

- Why have checkboxes been replaced with meaningless dots, where you can't tell whether they are on or off ?

- Why has the 'linked' icon been replaced with something so ambiguous ?

- Why are icons and controls so impossibly small when using a hi-res monitor ?

- Why are some controls virtually invisible when using high-contrast mode ?

On a scale of 10, I'd give v2 a score of 3 compared to V1.

 

[DGee]

I love the new interface. At a first glance I wasn’t sure about the tool icons not being not monochrome… but then I realized they’re not distracting at all and I actually prefer them now because I see much quicker what the tool is about.

Personally I think it’s one of the best interfaces I have ever seen. It’s intuitive, looks great, the interaction with the tools is very responsive and smooth, and overall is very nice user experience. I just feel like creating something when I’m looking at it and I don’t get that from other apps.

[Emagineer]

Well, I guess saying we love the interface is avoiding the question--it doesn't engage meaningfully with the points raised, it just dismisses them as a whole. It does provide information when you to say that, but addressing the points is really the point.

I personally have not yet installed v2, so I'm not defending or criticising. I'm just suggesting that to be helpful we have to consider the points that Gary raises.

For example, he mentions that the new icons look like something from a GameBoy app designed for 8-year olds--oh, ok, maybe I will install it then.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Emagineer
typo fix

[DGee]

29 minutes ago, Emagineer said:

Well, I guess saying we love the interface is avoiding the question--it doesn't engage meaningfully with the points raised, it just dismisses them as a whole. It does provide information when you to say that, but addressing the points is really the point.

I personally have not yet installed v2, so I'm not defending or criticising. I'm just suggesting that to be helpful we have to consider the points that Gary raises.

For example, he mentions that the new icons look like something from a GameBoy app designed for 8-year olds--oh, ok, maybe I will install it then.

most points been made are very subjective and personal. I respect that other people may have a different opinion on the interface. I personally have a very different opinion. 

[Didge]

Of course, your opinion would also be very subjective and personal.

There is no easy way to quantify these things - as I have often said, user experience is everything.

It doesn't matter how good a product is from a functional point of view if users dislike it so much they don't use it.

[Didge]

The thing with these 'check-dots' is that there is no point of reference.

With checkboxes, the box itself is the point of reference.

There is no value in showing a set of check-dots next to each other, some on and some off, and hi lighting the difference,
because the fact that they are in different states provides a point of reference (assuming they are adjacent).

If all check-dots are in the same state (either ON or OFF), then there is NO point of reference.
They just all look the same, and there is no way to be certain which state they are in.

This design element depends on the user making a judgement regarding the level of grey / contrast in the panel,
which is really bad from a design point of view.

Tell me - is this layer ON or Off ?

Ignoring the truncated text, there is just no way to tell.

If you compare the grey level to the adjacent text, you might guess that it is OFF - or is it ON ??

Try adjusting the contrast on your monitor, the button can easily disappear completely - unfortunately I can't show you because a screen grab won't capture that.

The UI needs to be sensitive to different usage scenarios - such a high-contrast for vision-impaired users.

When a binary control like an on/off button has no inherent point of reference, and depends on the contrast setting of the monitor, and the user's subjective judgement of brightness, it is just bad design.

[loukash]

5 minutes ago, Gary.JONES said:

The UI need to be sensitive to different usage scenarios - such a high-contrast for vision-impaired users.

That's always been an issue with Affinity apps. I can't stand the dark mode in general, but the Affinity light mode was always half-baked and buggy as well.
Recent example:

 

[loukash]

2 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

What is the point of redesigning icons at the expense of fixing bugs ?

Well, an icon designer doesn't necessarily have to be skilled in programming applications. Those are two completely different things. You're comparing apples with … beachballs (of death ) here.

[Didge]

Ah - that's a good example of bad design.

I always work in dark mode - mainly because light mode gets tiring on the eyes and constricts the pupils, so it affects colour perception.

There are many similar examples - this suggests that the changes have not been well thought through.

However, you can adjust text contract and UI brightness in the preferences panel,
although changes in text contrast dont change until you release the slider (bad), but UI brightness does (good).

 

[loukash]

2 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

Why has the Export Persona been so badly mangled ?

You mean the Export dialog? It's not necessarily "prettier", but it's more functional. I hate that pointless "More" button in v1. 

[Didge]

Sorry, yes the export dialog.

IMHO the 'More' button is perfectly sensible - it tucks detailed prefs away where you can set-and-forget, they don't get in your way.

[loukash]

Just now, Gary.JONES said:

mainly because light mode gets tiring on the eyes and constricts the pupils

Funny, but for me it's exactly the other way round.
But then again, I use f.lux to adjust the display temperature. At this night time, my display is automatically dimmed to only 2700°K. During the day it's 5000°K aka D50. Like that, the display brightness doesn't need to be full on.

In other words, it's the blue light that is tiring on my eyes.

And yeah: System Preferences > Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion & Increase Contrast enabled. Neutral gray desktop background. No freakin' gimmicks.  

[loukash]

2 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

What has happened to Separated View mode ?

It was a Mac only gimmick that was merged into the Floating Mode similar to Windows version.
But it's kinda possible to emulate it: 

 

[loukash]

2 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

Why has so much been made worse, and so little made better ?

Next question!  

[loukash]

2 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

Why are all the fonts so small in the UI ?

Possibly because the UI designers are young and don't use glasses yet…? 

You're aware that you can make the UI font larger in the preferences, right? (All the acompanying bugs notwithstanding for now.)

[loukash]

2 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

Why has the issue of contrast been so poorly factored into icon design and screen colours ?

Yes, this is seriously puzzling me as well. 

[Zaxonov]

16 minutes ago, loukash said:

You're aware that you can make the UI font larger in the preferences, right? (All the acompanying bugs notwithstanding for now.)

Large Font UI Size replace the words with abbreviations. That's not good, imho. 

[loukash]

Just now, Zaxonov said:

That's not good, imho

And I don't disagree with you.

[debraspicher]

30 minutes ago, loukash said:

Funny, but for me it's exactly the other way round.
But then again, I use f.lux to adjust the display temperature. At this night time, my display is automatically dimmed to only 2700°K. During the day it's 5000°K aka D50. Like that, the display brightness doesn't need to be full on.

In other words, it's the blue light that is tiring on my eyes.

And yeah: System Preferences > Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion & Increase Contrast enabled. Neutral gray desktop background. No freakin' gimmicks.  

Not quite on topic with the main post, but I have brightness turned down to a lower level. Partly for saving my eyes but also to be closer to paper. I think 80-120 lumens. I use a calibrator to maintain my screens. Sometimes I go higher for higher ambient, but anyway, it looks HORRIBLE at first because of being used to higher brightness. After a while, you adjust and it looks quite well. It really saves with eye strain especially using multiple displays.

I did try f.lux. My productive hours were unfortunately at night, so needed accuracy and kept turning it off. So I uninstalled.

[bt1138]

I don't care about the icons, I'll get used to them, but the lowered contrast (use of gray instead of white text in dialog boxes, removing colors from icons, below for example) is really silly bad, not good. Makes it harder, slower to use. Look at the join or order icons, the gray ones look so mushy.

"Miter" value box in 2.0 is better though, so bonus points for that.

[loukash]

6 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

to be closer to paper

That's the very keyword here.

6 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

My productive hours were unfortunately at night, so needed accuracy

Yep, it's not the best idea to focus on color decisions at night.
Hence at night, I do usually my audio work with studio headphones. (which is now totally off topic, I know… )

[debraspicher]

@Gary.JONES Curious what resolution, DPI, etc you are running. I am running 4K x 2 with 28" screens top and bottom, but I have no vision issues. So I don't see some of complaints others are seeing as far as scale. Both are set to a modest 150%. Particularly the scroll bar in Export dialog, for the most part it fills the screen because I can maximize.

The other complaints, such as contrast on Windows I can see be annoying. To me they are a few shades off in terms of contrast. Not that bothersome for me as I tend to prefer lower contrast UI if I can customize it, but for others with vision problems could be a big issue.

I kept missing the hide/unhide dot earlier. I am using dark mode. Not sure if default or not, but I kept hiding a layer and wondering why it was not registering the pen. I feel like it is something I can get used to though. I have warm fuzzies about the original checkboxes. Layers panel is most memorable UI for me in the program.

Just some thoughts. I haven't had enough time in the new program to be too critical. Usually little annoyances, particularly UI, take a little bit to agitate. Probably because I am spending more time trying to look for and test old/new functionality, ie find my way

[debraspicher]

22 minutes ago, bt1138 said:

I don't care about the icons, I'll get used to them, but the lowered contrast (use of gray instead of white text in dialog boxes, removing colors from icons, below for example) is really silly bad, not good. Makes it harder, slower to use. Look at the join or order icons, the gray ones look so mushy.

"Miter" value box in 2.0 is better though, so bonus points for that.

To me this is a few shades too dark, the text. It looks like an active dialog... but it could be an inactive dialog. It honestly sits uncomfortably inbetween active and inactive (ie "greyed out") that I think it needs adjustment.

BTW, +1 like, I am out of likes again..

[debraspicher]

19 minutes ago, loukash said:

That's the very keyword here.

Yep, it's not the best idea to focus on color decisions at night.
Hence at night, I do usually my audio work with studio headphones. (which is now totally off topic, I know… )

Now, I don't have that option of working late anymore thanks to little one, so I agree with you here lol. It was more for illustration foundation I worked late and could enjoy music, etc in the background to wind down. Design and photo edits always look like trash in the morning if I do them at night... I end up redoing so what is the point.

[MoonaticDestiny]

6 hours ago, Gary.JONES said:

- Why do the new icons look like something from a GameBoy app designed for 8-year olds ?

 

Lol. Youre absolutely right though. You know why? Because the eraser tool looks like a pill from the Dr Mario game and the magic wand looks like a wand for a wizard. Im starting not to like them. I really like the icons from v1. They look dark, sleek, and cool. The touch of blue looks good on the gray icons. They need to go back to these v1 icons. Dont go color with these icons. Just keep it monochromatic with a touch of blue to go with affinity designers blue color theme.