Old users = new users?

[monzo]

On 11/11/2022 at 7:15 PM, SKT7 said:

Affinity's suite costs less than 2 months of rental of similar apps from the other company!

Since you tagged me, I'll respond:

You're comparing two totally different sets of products.

And no, it isn't just about the money (though being hit with a £90 bill to keep my products updated during a recession isn't exactly welcome here). It's about trust (e.g. abandoning all my products overnight in favour of new ones), and my customer loyalty and cheerleading of the company providing hundreds of additional sales being valued at exactly 0.

[myclay]

There will be compatibility patches for V1, it isn´t abandoned.
Just feature frozen and not on sale anymore.

 

[Viridian]

1 hour ago, tudor said:

Because it is about the price. Would you be satisfied if you'd receive a "Certificate for Extraordinary Customer Loyalty" from Affinity? No. You want the discount, you want the money.

Yes, it is about money to me.

I've bought Designer V1 on Ipad from the Apple store a few days before the announced V2. Now according to the information on these forums, recent purchases from the Serif store will get a free upgrade to V2. Purchases through the Apple store won't.

You might find this sort of policy ok, I find it problematic.

 

[tudor]

2 hours ago, monzo said:

(e.g. abandoning all my products overnight in favour of new ones)

How many commercial software companies do you know that still provide updates to their older apps after the launch of the latest versions?

[Ali]

1 hour ago, Viridian said:

Yes, it is about money to me.

That would be because Serif is running a business, not a charity.

1 hour ago, Viridian said:

Purchases through the Apple store won't.

The reason for this has been addressed by Serif staff in other threads on this issue, but essentially they have no way of knowing who bought the product and when unless it was bought from Serif direct. There's the lesson: if you stick with them, buy directly from Serif.

[monzo]

58 minutes ago, tudor said:

How many commercial software companies do you know that still provide updates to their older apps after the launch of the latest versions?

Plenty. Those that care about their existing customers, anyway. They usually provide an upgrade path too, and not just whack out a totally new product at a standard price for all customers, old and new.

[Viridian]

1 hour ago, Ali said:

That would be because Serif is running a business, not a charity.

The reason for this has been addressed by Serif staff in other threads on this issue, but essentially they have no way of knowing who bought the product and when unless it was bought from Serif direct. There's the lesson: if you stick with them, buy directly from Serif.

Why would I stick with them? I don't expect charity, but there are many ways to run a business. I've used adobe in the past, and quit because I've found their way of doing business problematic. Same goes for serif.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect better treatment as a customer. I could provide the invoice from the apple store, for example, which states the date of purchase of the app. So I don't understand why that is the excuse here.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Viridian

[SKT7]

7 hours ago, tudor said:

How many commercial software companies do you know that still provide updates to their older apps after the launch of the latest versions?

I haven't come across any, if fact, many expensive software don't even give bug fixes after one year unless you buy their expensive AMC (Annual Maintenance Contract) even if they don't release a new version. 

 

6 hours ago, monzo said:

Plenty. Those that care about their existing customers, anyway. They usually provide an upgrade path too, and not just whack out a totally new product at a standard price for all customers, old and new.

Since it's 'plenty' can you give one example where a software company claim to resolve all bugs for eternity? I would love to know.

 

6 hours ago, Viridian said:

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect better treatment as a customer. I could provide the invoice from the apple store, for example, which states the date of purchase of the app. So I don't understand why that is the excuse here.

This is really unfortunate - that's why I don't trust Apple.
Serif should co-ordinate with Apple and help their users.

(I would leave MS also, if the programs I need to use professionally are available on Linux) 
 

 

[monzo]

46 minutes ago, SKT7 said:

Since it's 'plenty' can you give one example where a software company claim to resolve all bugs for eternity? I would love to know.
 

 

I never said ‘for eternity’, did I. My gripe is cutting off support immediately for existing purchases on release of new products.

But off the top of my head, companies that are providing free basic security bug fixes for previous purchases/packages I’ve bought:

Ableton, Arturia, Sugarbytes, Native Instruments on desktop. iOS apps where an upgrade/bundle deal has been applied for existing customers: Olympia Noise Co., 4Pockets. And A Tasty Pixel provide free compatibility updates for users who don’t want to subscribe to paid feature updates, and an upgrade path for existing customers.

How many do you want? The fact is a lot of companies provide a discounted upgrade path for existing customers, and a set period for security and compatibility updates rather than switching them off overnight. 
 

[AlainP]

Why so many disturbed people on this forum? 

Complaining for days for a 50$ software...

I don't know about other members, but I'm so fed up, I'll come back in a month.

Thanks again to all of you a Serif for such a formidable software suite for so little money !

[SKT7]

20 hours ago, monzo said:

I never said ‘for eternity’, did I. My gripe is cutting off support immediately for existing purchases on release of new products.

You didn't spell it out, but that's what you are essentially asking for. 
There will be bug fixes for Affinity V1 by the way, I saw it somewhere in the forum. 

Yes, Ableton, Arturia etc gives updates for some time - do they agree to do it forever? They would also drop support for some software/hardware when it's not feasible for them continue. It's entirely their discretion. There's a company that gave free software upgrades for almost 20 years (look up ZBrush) - it got taken over by Maxon this year and now subscription only.

Clearly you are not able to see the value for a 30-50 USD software that gave 5+ years of updates and fixes, where it's competitors are ~20 times more expensive and don't even provide perpetual license, let alone free updates - so I am not sure what else to say!!

May be open source software like Inkscape and Gimp would suit you better, Inkscape has many features that Affinity doesn't have, and same might be true for Gimp. Although, keep in mind, they also drop support for older plugins and scripts with major releases - but as you are not paying anything, you won't get worked up about loyalty bonus or discounted upgrade.

[monzo]

1 hour ago, SKT7 said:

You didn't spell it out, but that's what you are essentially asking for. 
There will be bug fixes for Affinity V1 by the way, I saw it somewhere in the forum. 

Yes, Ableton, Arturia etc gives updates for some time - do they agree to do it forever?

 

This is trolling. Not once have I stated, or expected, bug fixes for ever.

Check my posts, and stop putting words into my comments that I never wrote. You asked for a list, I gave you a list.

As for Affinity updates, it’ll be a comfort if they do, but it’s a shame it will have taken a customer backlash to get them to do it. However their FAQ still states:

Quote

Please bear in mind that V1 will no longer receive any updates.

 

[Dan C]

Please keep these threads civil, or we will be forced to lock them from further replies.

We appreciate some users aren't happy with the decision we made regarding our launch offer, though this was done as we are unable to identify all purchases of Affinity V1 from external app stores, such as the Mac App Store, Windows Store and iPad App Store and therefore offered the same generous discount to new and existing users alike.

5 hours ago, monzo said:

However their FAQ still states:

Quote

Please bear in mind that V1 will no longer receive any updates.

Apologies, the site hasn't yet been updated, but our team has confirmed -

I hope this clears things up!

[Florin Iaru]

5 hours ago, Dan C said:

Please keep these threads civil, or we will be forced to lock them from further replies.

We appreciate some users aren't happy with the decision we made regarding our launch offer, though this was done as we are unable to identify all purchases of Affinity V1 from external app stores, such as the Mac App Store, Windows Store and iPad App Store and therefore offered the same generous discount to new and existing users alike.

Apologies, the site hasn't yet been updated, but our team has confirmed -

I hope this clears things up!

I really don’t understand what you mean by not idenfying the "users who purchased the software”? There are three places: you, Windows and Apple Store. You acorded licenses based on mail and Password. I understand that Apple or Windows doesn’t tell you about your money, where from it comes?
Let me be very well understood. I don’t blame the price. I only don’t understand your politics.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Florin Iaru said:

I really don’t understand what you mean by not idenfying the "users who purchased the software”? There are three places: you, Windows and Apple Store. You acorded licenses based on mail and Password. I understand that Apple or Windows doesn’t tell you about your money, where from it comes?
Let me be very well understood. I don’t blame the price. I only don’t understand your politics.

Suppose you purchased via the Microsoft Store, or the Mac App Store, and you want a special discount as an owner of a license for V1. Serif does not know you own V1, because Microsoft and Apple do not share that information. So they cannot give you a special discount.

They can identify their own direct customers (those who bought from the Affinity Store) who own V1 licenses, and could give them a special discount. But that would not be fair to those who purchased from Microsoft or Apple.

So, rather than treat some customers differently from others, they do not offer a special customer-only discount. Instead, they give everyone a discount, and then all the customers are treated the same.

[Florin Iaru]

56 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Suppose you purchased via the Microsoft Store, or the Mac App Store, and you want a special discount as an owner of a license for V1. Serif does not know you own V1, because Microsoft and Apple do not share that information. So they cannot give you a special discount.

They can identify their own direct customers (those who bought from the Affinity Store) who own V1 licenses, and could give them a special discount. But that would not be fair to those who purchased from Microsoft or Apple.

So, rather than treat some customers differently from others, they do not offer a special customer-only discount. Instead, they give everyone a discount, and then all the customers are treated the same.

Can u see the information? It is impossible for Microsoft or Apple to offer a license without Serif permission.

[Florin Iaru]

I appreciate a lot Afinity suite, I am only a little desppointed…

[Viridian]

1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

Suppose you purchased via the Microsoft Store, or the Mac App Store, and you want a special discount as an owner of a license for V1. Serif does not know you own V1, because Microsoft and Apple do not share that information. So they cannot give you a special discount.

They can identify their own direct customers (those who bought from the Affinity Store) who own V1 licenses, and could give them a special discount. But that would not be fair to those who purchased from Microsoft or Apple.

So, rather than treat some customers differently from others, they do not offer a special customer-only discount. Instead, they give everyone a discount, and then all the customers are treated the same.

But that is the information from these forums here:

On reddit some users posted that they have received emails with additional offers for recent purchases, but only for the Serif store. So it seems that contrary to what you wrote customers have not been treated the same. As you wrote: it would be not fair, yet apparently this is what Serif did.

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Viridian

[Florin Iaru]

Just now, Viridian said:

But that is the information from these forums here:

On reddit some users posted that they have received emails with additional offers for recent purchases, but only for the Serif store. So it seems that contrary to what you wrote customers have not been treated the same.

 

100% incorrect. No problem, nobody can’t change others' opinions.

[Viridian]

3 minutes ago, Florin Iaru said:

100% incorrect. No problem, nobody can’t change others' opinions.

What here is incorrect exactly? This is a quote from the staff: "Recent iPad version sales aren't offered any specific offers as they are Apples customers and we have no access to those Store sales. We have been generous to recent Affinity store sales "

Edited November 15, 2022 by Viridian

[walt.farrell]

8 minutes ago, Viridian said:

On reddit some users posted that they have received emails with additional offers for recent purchases, but only for the Serif store. So it seems that contrary to what you wrote customers have not been treated the same. As you wrote: it would be not fair, yet apparently this is what Serif did.

They're trying to be nice to customers who purchased within the last 90 days. I don't know if it applies only to Serif customers or not, but they certainly can't contact anyone who didn't buy from them, as they won't know they're customers or won't know when they purchased.

It doesn't apply to me, so I haven't inquired. If it does apply to you (purchased within the past 90 days) feel free to write to affinity@serif.com and discuss with them.