Extremely Disappointed, Existing Customers must Purchase Affinity V2

[csadam]

1 hour ago, garrettm30 said:

I’m not so sure it is, because people keep forgetting that Serif has already stated that they can’t offer upgrade prices because the app stores where they get a significant portion of their sales do not allow upgrade pricing.

What is not clear about that they don't give upgrade possibility for existing users? That's a fact, it's on their FAQ page. How they explain the cause of it is a different thing.

I understand that there are technical difficulties. But these are known since the beginning so they could have come up with a solution in the past years if they wanted to.
If the problem is that they can't connect the app store purchases to affinity accounts, then it can be solved by adding an option to log in to affinity account from the V1 app. Then they can register that the account has purchased the app.

Different prices for different users in the V2 app can be achieved by enabling different in-app purchase prices depending on what previous versions do you have registered on your account.

But these are all technical nitpicking. The main problem here is that they do something that nobody else did so far, disrespecting their existing users by giving no upgrade path.

(And a different problem is the hostility in these forums. If anybody explain their opinion about the situation, then they are labeled as greedy cheapskate, and get personal attacks from multiple users who seemingly ignore the underlying problem with this bad precedent. Don't get me wrong, I'm not addressing this remark to you personally, but you can see what I'm talking about if you read back.)

"Arguing about any other option is just theoretical."  No. Arguing about any other option is a must. If other software vendors see the precedent and realize they can simply drop the upgrade options without any backlash, then they will do it too.

[Old Bruce]

9 minutes ago, csadam said:

The main problem here is that they do something that nobody else did so far, disrespecting their existing users by giving no upgrade path.

One application I use daily has an upgrade discount for existing users, it is 20%. I prefer the 40% off I got from Affinity.

[csadam]

1 minute ago, Old Bruce said:

One application I use daily has an upgrade discount for existing users, it is 20%. I prefer the 40% off I got from Affinity.

Sure, 40% is better than 20%, but these are two totally different things.

The 20% discount is a constant upgrade offer that you can use any time, and if they have deals then the deal discount comes on top of that 20%.

The 40% is a time limited black friday/release/whatereveryoucall deal, and you get no incentive to upgrade after it's over. That's the problem.

[Distill7]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:09 PM, Metalhead said:

The UK price included taxes and is GBP 89.99 - around 103 €. We have to pay 119,99 €.

Good to see Brexit is working well for you.

[Distill7]

2 minutes ago, csadam said:

Sure, 40% is better than 20%, but these are two totally different things.

The 20% discount is a constant upgrade offer that you can use any time, and if they have deals then the deal discount comes on top of that 20%.

The 40% is a time limited black friday/release/whatereveryoucall deal, and you get no incentive to upgrade after it's over. That's the problem.

That's a good argument. If a guy who purchased V1 was on vacation and missed on the 40% sale, then he won't really get any upgrade discount.

[Tia Lapis]

2 minutes ago, csadam said:

The 40% is a time limited black friday/release/whatereveryoucall deal, and you get no incentive to upgrade after it's over. That's the problem.

I hate to break it to you - Europe doesn't care about Black Friday...

[csadam]

1 minute ago, Tia Lapis said:

I hate to break it to you - Europe doesn't care about Black Friday...

This is the example of the hostility in the forum I mentioned before.

What does this remark adds to the conversation? Nothing.  Does it contain a good argument?  No.  Does is disprove any of my points? No.
It's just an irrelevant statement trying to shift the conversation to a pointless dispute.

ON1, DXO, ACDSee, and others all have 40-60% Black Friday deals every year (on top of their permanent upgrade discount). And these are all available in Europe.
So what is your point?

[MKJJ]

9 minutes ago, Distill7 said:

That's a good argument. If a guy who purchased V1 was on vacation and missed on the 40% sale, then he won't really get any upgrade discount.

Not quite sure whether you are serious or sarcastic, but I agree anyway. 😉 Good point! In addition to that, it creates pressure. I would prefer to have time for testing before upgrading to V2. Or maybe I just would like to wait a little bit. That's not an option and far from good customer service.

[AlainP]

3 minutes ago, MKJJ said:

Not quite sure whether you are serious or sarcastic, but I agree anyway. 😉 Good point! In addition to that, it creates pressure. I would prefer to have time for testing before upgrading to V2. Or maybe I just would like to wait a little bit. That's not an option and far from good customer service.

All apps have 30 days trial period.

And speaking of customer service.... I've yet to find anything better than Serif so far.

[csadam]

2 minutes ago, AlainP said:

All apps have 30 days trial period.

And speaking of customer service.... I've yet to find anything better than Serif so far.

You missed the point.

Apps have trial period, that's fine, but irrelevant. They don't tell when the time limited discount ends, creating FOMO. If the deal ends before you trialing the software, then you are stuck with the only option to buy it for full price. That is an example of a bad customer relations.

It's good to hear that you have positive experience with customer service in the sense of application support. But this has nothing to do with the remark about customer service in the sense of pressuring the users to upgrade V2 by offering a discount that can end any time or else you have to pay full price.

[debraspicher]

16 minutes ago, csadam said:

You missed the point.

Apps have trial period, that's fine, but irrelevant. They don't tell when the time limited discount ends, creating FOMO. If the deal ends before you trialing the software, then you are stuck with the only option to buy it for full price. That is an example of a bad customer relations.

It's good to hear that you have positive experience with customer service in the sense of application support. But this has nothing to do with the remark about customer service in the sense of pressuring the users to upgrade V2 by offering a discount that can end any time or else you have to pay full price.

They're not responding to your post re: trial period. Stop recycling the conversation to keep this thread bumped. Subjectively, your posts could be read as hostile by some because you're having a go at anyone who presents an alternate view in a viciously dismissive manner. So to that degree, we get what we give.

Also dismissing technical difficulties as "nitpicking" is not going to make those explanations go away, especially if they impact the business side. There were valid explanations provided on a few occasions or at least potential explanations as to why Serif might've went this route. I noted you didn't respond to some of those details or post at all, but instead are going after very specific arguments that create easy arguments for your conclusion. Some can see this as recycling the discussion without any purpose or end-point (i.e. ranting).

Also, you cited the issue of how an upgrade path will disappear once discount has ended. Many of us agree with you. I haven't seen anyone dispute this personally. Maybe allow people the room to vent or ponder why things might be the way they instead of outright attacking people for disagreeing as "pretending". Also, around and around we go, there's no reason to just create needless tension over issue(s) that have been discussed into the ground at this point.

Everyone is allowed their POV on the customer service aspect. Again, I agree with you, if the current promo disappears with no available upgrade path, it'll be a major problem. I think there's consensus on a number of issues with the upgrade solution but it is up to Serif how they respond. Again, I 100% agree with you there.

[Jimo]

1 hour ago, csadam said:

Sure, 40% is better than 20%, but these are two totally different things

And no discount off something that costs just £60 at full price is better than a 20% discount off something that costs, say, £500 when you first bought it. It isn't reasonable to compare what one company does with what Serif offer when what another company does is also charge a lot more to begin with.

1 hour ago, csadam said:

ON1, DXO, ACDSee, and others all have 40-60% Black Friday deals every year (on top of their permanent upgrade discount)

But even with their current discounts, it looks to me like they those also cost more than all of the apps Serif provide.

ON1 cost £105 to own outright. How much is the upgrade?

DoX costs £199 before VAT (or £66.33 for 3 months - so is it looks like it's a subscribtion model anyway?).

Cheapest version of ACDSee is the Home Edition at $54.95 (normally $219.97!).

I can't see where it says how much any upgrades cost, but are they less than the £60 we'd have to pay for Affinity Photo 2 if we missed out on the promo discount (bearing in mind V1 only cost us £50 at most to begin with)?

[csadam]

2 minutes ago, debraspicher said:

 Subjectively, your posts could be read as hostile by some because you're having a go at anyone who presents an alternate view in a viciously dismissive manner.

Sorry if you feel that way, I just point out that most replies are not "alternative views" or arguments against or for the topic in question, just sidetracking or misunderstanding.

How is "I hate to break it to you - Europe doesn't care about Black Friday... "  an alternate view about this topic?

I don't understand your remark about the technical part, I've even gave a solution idea to the problem. Maybe I've missed the specific comment you mention.

Anyway, I've already said what I wanted to say, so have a nice weekend for everybody.

[Tia Lapis]

1 hour ago, csadam said:

ON1, DXO, ACDSee, and others all have 40-60% Black Friday deals every year (on top of their permanent upgrade discount). And these are all available in Europe.
So what is your point?

My point is that is is not something you should count on to get from a European company. Back Friday never reached the madness level here as it has in the US and many companies ignore it completely.

[Distill7]

59 minutes ago, MKJJ said:

Not quite sure whether you are serious or sarcastic, but I agree anyway. 😉

I Was serious BTW

[Artsketch]

Just now, Tia Lapis said:

Back Friday never reached the madness level here as it has in the US and many companies ignore it completely.

But now there are more digital Black Friday deals in Europe. I'm sure you can get the 1 year Photoshop + Lightroom subscription at €89 again.

[Designer1234]

8 hours ago, csadam said:

The 20% discount is a constant upgrade offer that you can use any time, and if they have deals then the deal discount comes on top of that 20%.

The 40% is a time limited black friday/release/whatereveryoucall deal, and you get no incentive to upgrade after it's over. That's the problem

I agree with that too. The price level is not the biggest problem, actually not the problem at all, the problem is how the discount for upgrading owners is offered.
They could simply force them to register their copies and purchase upgrade via Affinity Store - sure, still not the best way, but at least some solution. The only explanation why they didn't do that could be some App Stores policies.. but is it truth?

[Designer1234]

7 hours ago, Jimo said:

ON1 cost £105 to own outright

Without the plugins which seem to make up the main part of this app functionality and which cost 1,5 times more than the app.

[Poor Composition]

2 hours ago, Designer1234 said:

Without the plugins which seem to make up the main part of this app functionality and which cost 1,5 times more than the app.

ON1 Photo Raw 2023 includes the plugin features as part of the program. The separate plugin package is a set of features that work standalone and as plugins for other editors such as Photoshop, Corel Paintshop Pro, Capture One and... Affinity Photo. 

[MKJJ]

14 hours ago, Distill7 said:

I Was serious BTW

Thanks!

[konbit]

19 hours ago, PaulEC said:

No! If you've already purchased the v1 apps you'll be able to download and install them again. It's just that they are no longer available for new customers to buy. 

From the Mac App Store? You sure? They don't seem to be there any more...

[rawii22]

5 minutes ago, konbit said:

From the Mac App Store? You sure? They don't seem to be there any more...

I think he means the affinity store online. I can still find the old downloads page online, but in the FAQ they said you can't buy them anymore. I can't speak for the app store tho since I haven't used the iPad version yet...

If you didn't buy it through the serif website, you may not be able to use those download links...

Affinity Photo Updates (Windows) (serif.com)

Affinity Photo Updates (macOS) (serif.com)

Edited November 13, 2022 by rawii22

[Murfee]

3 minutes ago, konbit said:

From the Mac App Store? You sure? They don't seem to be there any more...

Have you looked under purchases?

[konbit]

Just now, Murfee said:

Have you looked under purchases?

Yeah - but I haven't had to erase them from the computer - so it just says "open". 

[PaulEC]

45 minutes ago, konbit said:

Yeah - but I haven't had to erase them from the computer - so it just says "open". 

That's because it's already installed! If it wasn't you should have the option to install it.