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Extremely disappointed that this installs as an "App" and not regular software program


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1 hour ago, jpmb76 said:

I, like so many of you, am also very disappointed with the route Serif took for its programs.
I also encountered few problems after installing new apps, like lack of shortcuts for example, or difficulties to add .exe files to other programs.

The solution that might work for all of you is:
download msix file of your desired program,
extract it (unzip it) to a folder using 7-zip,
go to that folder, your .exe file should be located in App subfolder.

Run the program like you would normally.


It did work for me.
I was able to place that folder to any directory, create shortcuts and connect external programs to use Affinity.

 

I tried this and it works, thanks.

I use V1 and I'm evaluating V2 on 30 day trial. To be honest cost is not a factor in deciding if I'll move to V2. However integration is absolutely critical and the inability to call V2 from DXO etc means I'd not bother to use V2 even if it were a free upgrade. If this work around is a one-off then I'm OK, but if it is required every time there is an upgrade I cannot live with that either. So, I'll wait and see if the matter is addressed in the course of my trial period, or at least an update is released and proves I do not have to keep repeating the work around.

I really want to continue with Affinity, for many reasons I wish them lots of success and I'm very happy to spend my money with them. I'm just so surprised that they've taken this miss-step with V2. Here's hoping they respond rapidly to our feedback.

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35 minutes ago, mb6391 said:

It'll work until there's an update. Then everything needs repeating.

Which arguably may (or may not) be better than letting updates be applied without intervention. I have auto-update turned off for all store apps, but ideally I'd like to let the trivial bundled accessories (notepad, etc.) auto-update, but not anything more major. This "installation" procedure could probably be scripted easily enough.

Len
Affinity Photo 2 | QCAD 3 | FastStone | SpyderX Pro | FOSS:  ART darktable  XnView  RawTherapee  Inkscape  G'MIC  LibreOffice
Windows 11 on a 16 GB, Ryzen 5700 8-core laptop with a cheesy little embedded AMD GPU

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...desperately looking for landscapes in Nolandscapeland        https://www.flickr.com/photos/14015058@N07/

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2 hours ago, lphilpot said:

Which arguably may (or may not) be better than letting updates be applied without intervention. I have auto-update turned off for all store apps, but ideally I'd like to let the trivial bundled accessories (notepad, etc.) auto-update, but not anything more major. This "installation" procedure could probably be scripted easily enough.

Absolutely. The update procedure of V1 was not that much better as you had to download every programm separatly, install it with admin privileges and wait till done. Extracing the zip file took about the same time (even less time).

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I was eagerly anticipating the rollout of V2 and looked forward to some of the new features that would be added. Unfortunately, the decision to install the applications as an app in Windows has kept me from purchasing the update. Like so many of the previous commenters, I will likely wait until Serif develops the traditional method of installation before committing to V2. I do want to support Serif and the price structure of the upgrades seem appropriate to me. Yet I don't want to jump through a series of workaround hoops to just get things working like every other Windows software program.

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I am not interested in the MSIX installation procedure as I have disabled the Microsoft store and MS spying. As long as there is no .exe installation option, version 2 is out of the question for me. Especially since the big announced innovations do not represent any particular added value in my opinion. I will continue to work with the installer-friendly version 1.

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At this point it would be helpful if someone at Serif would chime in on this matter. Specifically, something like one of these statements:

  1. We intend to create an .msi/.exe installer for v2. We can't give you a specific date of availability, but we believe it will be ready on or before <date>, which <will/won't/may> be after the 40% off sale ends.
  2. We're not sure if an .msi/.exe is possible/feasible to create and support, but our developers are investigating. We will let you know the minute we make a decision on this.
  3. We don't intend to create an .msi/.exe installer for v2
  4. It is not possible to create an .msi or .exe installer for v2

It's hard to imagine why there would be a need for secrecy about all this. Please let us know what's going on. I want to buy v2 but can't unless a standard installer is released. And I'll be annoyed if there's radio silence until the sale ends, only to have the msi/exe installer show up afterwards.

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I am also very annoyed by the fact that Affinity has decided to go the Windows App route, so I want to add my comment here.

Please consider that many of your users like Affinity because it is not an Adobe/Microsoft/[Insert other big software company names here].

We want to retain some control over the software we own and we install in our machines and do not like the route computing is taking.

I am very happy to see that I am not the only one concerned.

Annoy your customers, and you might find you lose them.

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Well, I'm glad and sad that I saw this before buying. Glad because it saved me from the hassle of refunding. Sad because I've had serious respect towards Serif so far.

I was planning on buying the full bundle since I'm in a need of a layout software and Publisher would've filled that need.

I've also been using Photo and Designer for a good long while and wouldn't have minded getting an upgrade for both.

But, this whole apps instead of proper exe software is an absolute deal breaker. If I can't decide where software goes on my PC and what it does and when it does it, it doesn't go on my PC. With the exception of Windows because I use way too much software that is not natively supported on Linux.

So yea, unless Serif come to their senses and offer me a way to properly control the software I buy from them, I am not buying from them. And will not be recommending their software to anyone in the future, as I've thus far done to several organisations and individuals.

And I need to keep on looking for a layout and publishing software. :43_slight_frown:

Edited by Gremnosh
Typo
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I must say that this architecture choice speaks against using Affinity for probably all professionals (but I don't think many people use Affinity professionally). The choice depresses me for several reasons. 

As this thread illustrates, it causes unimaginable problems in integrating a program into a workflow with the many programs that are not built as apps, and as I see in 2022 that is still well over 99%. Even if Microsoft tries to push developers towards the app model, I see absolutely no one going that way. I don't know why Serif decided to be first movers. Good relationships with Microsoft trying to push their technologies, but no understanding or knowledge of how the world outside the walls works? 

That Serif then wants the customer to try to get all these companies to fix their products is comical. It's well known at software companies that this sandboxed model makes it hard for professionals to get their programs to work together, so they know perfectly well why they haven't gone that route yet.

Sadly, I sense that not only are these apps sandboxed, but that Serif has sandboxed itself in a vacuum in Nottingham, and apparently has no serious or widely representative stakeholders inside their work at all. The problem here would be revealed on day one in a test run with companies and other professionals. The time must simply be for Serif to get out of isolation in Nottingham and into the world. Put itself in the middle of the world.

If, like me, you have a lot of programs installed, professional programs from a lot of different vendors, new and old, it's comical to look in c:\Program Files\WindowsApps\.

Microsoft Bing News
Microsoft Bing Weather
Microsoft .NET
Microsoft this and that

No programs besides that what so ever besides Spotify. And now Affinity. Outside this sandbox, all of us creatives are working, so it's reality that's hitting hard now.

So, maybe what Microsoft recommended vendors to do because that's how they want the architecture to be in the future, and pretty sure something Serif got the pat on the back for supporting from Microsoft, but right now and here it's a better design choice for Microsoft Solitarire than for Affinity. Unless Serif knows something about the majority of their customers that we don't.

Everything I do in my workflows is in total collaboration with and through many programs, so right now I take the term 'sandbox' very literally. It gives this impression of Affinity.

How to Build a DIY Sandbox | Lowe's

Seriously. And it depresses me because I had the feeling that Serif would take a step towards more professional programs in v2, and since the CEO himself said in an interview that he didn't think Affinity replaced programs, but rather worked with other programs, this technical design choice seems completely absurd.

In my view, Affinity writes itself out of many workflows, and thus out of many business cases, and thus off the software shopping list.

Serif needs to find a solution. But that Serif placed itself in this situation gives me a seriously bad feeling about the company's knowledge and judgment. And if it's fully intentional, then their target audience for their products is far, far from serious creatives like me. And maybe that makes sense, given the wait time for many features.

Edited by François R

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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1 hour ago, François R said:

I must say that this architecture choice speaks against using Affinity for probably all professionals (but I don't think many people use Affinity professionally). The choice depresses me for several reasons. 

I think you may be surprised as to how many professionals use Affinity albeit probably, although I have no proof, many of the larger corporations are still wedded to Adobe but I'd bet my bottom $ they don't pay the advertised monthly fee. Speaking from experience with Adobe products, they change very little over time. Sure there may be the odd extra feature here and there added but it's only beneficial if you have a use for it. We moved three of our machines to Affinity V1 and everything has been fine but there's no way we're going to fluff around to get V2 working as needed (by us) and there's definitely no way we're reducing folder/directory security to do so.

So for now we're stick with V1 until it no longer fulfils our requirements. Personally I doubt if there will be an *.exe released for V2 any time soon. Being an ex-beta tester for MSoft just about everyone in the beta testing system for Win 8.0 advised not to release it with that UI. You cannot transport a phone UI to a PC. We all know what happened next.

The saving grace for MSoft was they were able to ride out the 'storm' but not many folks changed from Win7. Whether Affinity after the obvious disappointment of V2 can do the same only time will tell. But now is most definitely not the time to alienate any of your customer base in my book.

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Just now, mb6391 said:

I think you may be surprised as to how many professionals use Affinity albeit probably, although I have no proof, many of the larger corporations are still wedded to Adobe but I'd bet my bottom $ they don't pay the advertised monthly fee.

With all due respect, I simply don't believe in it, at all. I've never seen or heard any trace of it in my career or my network (it's global) in person, on the web, here or market share analyses or business magazines, but I'm genuinely curious. 

But I simply need indisputable facts that no one has been able to contribute yet. I can see it's debated fiercely in here, but always without facts, so let's refrain from repeating that mistake here. 🙂  

 1) You have completely wrecked the layers panel, Serif.

2) I recommend Reddit groups instead of this forum. Not the same few bot-like users replying to everything, a wider representation of users, fewer fanboys, more qualified users. In short, better!

3) I was here to report bugs and submit improvement requests for professional work professionally in a large setup and to bring a lot of knowledge from the world, i.e. professional product development, web- and software development, usability, user experience design and accessibility. I actually know what I am talking about!

BUT! We are phasing out Designer and Affinity in 2022 Q1 - and replacing it with feature complete and algorithmically competent alternatives.
Publisher is unsuitable for serious use, and was never adopted.

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34 minutes ago, François R said:

With all due respect, I simply don't believe in it, at all. I've never seen or heard any trace of it in my career or my network (it's global) in person, on the web, here or market share analyses or business magazines, but I'm genuinely curious. 

But I simply need indisputable facts that no one has been able to contribute yet. I can see it's debated fiercely in here, but always without facts, so let's refrain from repeating that mistake here. 🙂  

Well, here I am. Professional 3D modeler and sculptor, using Affinity Photo and Designer for all sorts of stuff - texturing, good old graphic design, sketching, digital painting. Last year I have illustrated children's book using Photo. I could have use Paintstorm Studio or Krita or Corel Painter but I just used to Photo so much that I didnt bothered jumping between apps. I got several friends who are using Affinity - mostly Designer - for their purpose. Once I spoke with rather big name in the industry - Joseph Drust, formerly working in Pixologic, about possibility of writing addon for Affinity Photo that would allow to export many passes from ZBrush in one file to Photo. Sadly it was impossible due to lack of scripting capabilities in Photo (or something like that, I dont remember specifics) but he mentioned that is using Designer and finds it very cool.

I dont expect to convince you - judging by your tone you are determined to demand legal documents, videos, transcripts, official statistics posted on government website etc. proving that somebody is using Affinity in professional setting :D

But I think we may agree on fact, that just because YOU dont know anybody who is using it means literally NOTHING. I dont know any people that are using Rhino3D. So? That also means nothing. World is bigger then we and our circles. And you are just random person from internet - like many of us. Nobody will try hard to prove something to you. I might tell you how the things are, but you can easily keep believing otherwise. In the world where some people cannot be convinced that Earth is not flat I dont expect to have any success convincing you that you are mistaken. I just want you to know you are. Your disbelief will not affect reality, I will not be forced by it to go back to Adobe. Neither will any of people I know that are indeed using Affinity in their workflow. So you can either believe it or.. not. :)

-------------------

And yes, the whole windows app thing is really annoying.

I love using Affinity software and unlike many here that are threatening to stop using it or ask refund or some other type of drama :P - I will keep using it even as an app. But I did lost ability to start Photo from FastStone viewer which was very convenient. So it has impacted my workflow negatively offering nothing in exchange as positive. I hope devs will consider (or whoever is in charge there - certainly not devs :P ) to go back to good old exe. I would appreciate that very much!

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34 minutes ago, François R said:

With all due respect, I simply don't believe in it, at all. I've never seen or heard any trace of it in my career or my network (it's global) in person, on the web, here or market share analyses or business magazines, but I'm genuinely curious. 

But I simply need indisputable facts that no one has been able to contribute yet. I can see it's debated fiercely in here, but always without facts, so let's refrain from repeating that mistake here. 🙂  

On dpreview I've seen pros use Affinity Photo, but not necessarily exclusively. The number one issue was not the professional cred of Affinity Photo per se, but integrating it into a workflow. Like in real estate, it's Location!, Location!, Location! Well in photography, it's Workflow!, Workflow!, Workflow!. Until Serif internalizes this, they'll be stuck in this frustrating, quasi-professional limbo. And this whole app installation scheme is an unmitigated disaster.

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Boff, it seems to me that most of the big professionals prefer the experience, guarantee and security of a big company like adobe, rather than a "start-up" company.
This is probably why affinity is targeting the amateur and small business world.
The app. system then leaves total control to Mikey and the software creator, which makes life easier for users.
It is also possible that Mikey will make financial licensing arrangements to help his struggling system get off the ground ?

may be...

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3 minutes ago, ChopperNova said:

On dpreview I've seen pros use Affinity Photo, but not necessarily exclusively. The number one issue was not the professional cred of Affinity Photo per se, but integrating it into a workflow. Like in real estate, it's Location!, Location!, Location! Well in photography, it's Workflow!, Workflow!, Workflow!. Until Serif internalizes this, they'll be stuck in this frustrating, quasi-professional limbo. And this whole app installation scheme is an unmitigated disaster.

To be honest I dont know anybody who is using ONE software only. Maybe some Blender fanatics :D Its all about communicating with different apps in pipeline. And any step that makes it harder - is step back. That would apply to that whole windows app decision, sadly.

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4 minutes ago, Danel said:

Boff, it seems to me that most of the big professionals prefer the experience, guarantee and security of a big company like adobe

Do you mean the same Adobe that ignores massive bugs for months? Photoshop once had dreadful bug regarding text tool. It was impossible to change size of the font to the actual size, window to type in value just wasnt there. Took 2 months to fix it. Silently, one day it just worked again. No announcement, no nothing. Meanwhile we were sh···ing our pants from happiness and joy Adobe was so kindly delivering us with their "guarantee and security of a big company". And automatic answer "our team is working on the issue" that you get IMMEDIATELY after sending bug report :D Ah Adobe, how much I DONT miss you.

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I'm also disappointed and concerned at this unexpected move of Affinity away from a standard .exe pc install.

 

I've never installed an 'app' on my system and have switched everything off related to them and the ms store that I can in system settings and firewall permissions etc.

 

What are the benefits to a pc owner of installing an app as opposed to a standard .exe? It isn't clear to me.

 

Of the wide range of professional audio visual programs I use there is only one that I'm aware of being available as an app (for mac in this case), and that is BlackmagicDesign Resolve. Wisely in my opinion, BlackmagicDesign also makes a standard install version available, the app is just an alternative option. The purchaser is given the final say over which install they choose.

 

This thread has made me decide to delay a v2 purchase and see what Serif does to make a standard .exe install available, or not.

 

I only started using the Affinity suite a couple of months ago (ex years of CC) and I thought upgrading would be an obvious 'yes!', but I'm sorry to say this is an unfortunate no-go for now.

 

I'm glad to at least have the option to continue with the v1 suite and am not faced with v2 or nothing.

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Getting off topic a bit, but Adobe's Flash was one of the worse security risks in the history of the internet. Adobe Reader doesn't have a sterling security rep. either. And when you install CC, you get some mystery, unnecessary programs running 24/7 on your computer, whether you're using their software or not. Sometimes these programs will consume 100% CPU, or at very least keep your CPU from going into low power mode, which can translate to real electrical bills over time. Yet Adobe is vague on their programs' function and purpose.

Any software with intentionally hidden data pipelines home is inherently insecure by design.

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11 hours ago, jpmb76 said:

I, like so many of you, am also very disappointed with the route Serif took for its programs.
I also encountered few problems after installing new apps, like lack of shortcuts for example, or difficulties to add .exe files to other programs.

The solution that might work for all of you is:
download msix file of your desired program,
extract it (unzip it) to a folder using 7-zip,
go to that folder, your .exe file should be located in App subfolder.

Run the program like you would normally.


It did work for me.
I was able to place that folder to any directory, create shortcuts and connect external programs to use Affinity.

 

Bravo!

Works great for me so far.  Can even call the program to launch through Faststone, and I assume lightroom.

This may just salvage a lot of returns for V2 for Serif.

Thank you!!

 

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If thats the case and you can simply Unzip it and run normally then... I see zero benefits from making it windows app.

I thought it could help limit piracy or make it harder but if all you have to do is unzip it... 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

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