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Workflow is worse without separate mode - macos is not an iPad


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Maybe I didn't see the point of the one window app instead of the separate mode on macos. It steals desktop space pointlessly when you close the last image (see attachment) and at first glance, it's not clear to me how to work with 3 or 4 images at once for a montage. One image is in the program window and the others are outside the app window. This just doesn't fit. Please bring back the separate mode. Also some things do not work in APhoto v2. In version 1 I could drag an effect from one image to another. That doesn't work now. Also I can't move a layer from one image to another. Or is there a trick without having to copy and paste all the time?

Unfortunately, this makes the workflow very complicated. In my opinion it was not a good idea to leave out the separate mode. Because some self-evident things just don't work anymore. I bought the whole suite today and I am very disappointed by this limitation. Version 1 is no longer developed and I can not work in version 2 this way.

Screenshot 2022-11-09 at 14.54.26.jpg

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I haven't installed V2 yet (they dropped my macOS version 😳 so no quick testing) but it looks like with separated mode gone you can also no longer freely place UI elements?

I imagine a layout like mine with the navigator all zoomed up and grouped with tool palette and color picker is no longer possible?

affinity.thumb.jpg.fb45e027326d6bd9df5e0e719b059c45.jpg

 

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I tested the behaviour (I bought the whole suite an hour ago). You can place the UI elements freely like always but you have always one dominant main image in the app and a second image is outside. 

Somehow that bothers me. Because the image I load first is not necessarily the main image I want to edit. It can be the image in the program window or the one I dragged out of the app.

Screenshot 2022-11-09 at 16.04.05.jpg

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Woke up this morning, bought the full suite, and 10 minutes later requested a refund. Pointless to have two huge monitors on my Mac and have to use the app like it was a giant iPad.

Nearly as disappointing, now the chronic annoyances I was waiting to be fixed will never be fixed because the version I'm stuck using will never be updated.

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Also hating this unified window/view – like it's a big ios app – separated mode is so much better for my workflow and the ability to use the apps.

For example when you view 2 documents tiled half the toolbars are hidden:

827689096_Screenshot2022-11-09at21_13_10.thumb.png.2ce2c193c584626608e490d3bec438bf.png

Also when you switch between applications (for example that we open in another window) - all floated off windows become hidden. There are multiple times in my workflow when I need to see a open document when I'm in another application.

At least you can float the tools and panels off still. Having the toolbar, context toolbar lock to the first file opened is a pain – especially on a large/multi monitor setup. To me this seems illogical when you can float of the tools and panels but not the toolbar or context toolbar?

I'll be sticking with V1 for the time being. Luckily I only use Affinity at home – I couldn't work with the new UI professionally (where I use Adobe stuff, they let me disable the horrible Application Frame – their version of this unified window/view).

Edited by TonyUK
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Hello:

Just downloaded the demo and the first thing I wanted to set up was "Separate Mode" in affinity Photo as I have two monitors...

This option was under "Windows" in v1 but it looks like it not available in v2...

 

The apps look great and I really liked the new tools they added in Affinity Designer. Was about to purchase the whole suite (even if I don't need it) but I'll wait a little while and see if they add this option again or explain where it moved.

 

------------------------

Fernando Velarde

www.velarde.com

Instagram.com/soyfervelarde

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5 minutes ago, velarde said:

but I'll wait a little while and see if they add this option again or explain where it moved.

You should be able to drag panels between your monitors. And also Float document windows and drag then between monitors, too.

That has replaced Separated mode, I believe.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Hello Walt, thanks

Just testing this to see if it's a workable workflow.

I see that I CAN drag separate pictures to my other monitor but I found a bug...

The pictures' window size (in Mac Os)  can't be resized vertically or Horizontally past an arbitrary size... not sure if this a limitation or a bug....

To clarify... I CAN extend/drag the window size and make them very big but I CAN NOT make them smaller past a certain size...

------------------------

Fernando Velarde

www.velarde.com

Instagram.com/soyfervelarde

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8 minutes ago, velarde said:

To clarify... I CAN extend/drag the window size and make them very big but I CAN NOT make them smaller past a certain size...

I'll have to defer to Mac users to comment on that.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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Thanks Walt.

• Working on Mac OS Monterrey 12.6 in an iMac 2.15 inch - Late 2015 if that helps.

• The separate mode thing is workable and I guess not a deal breaker (for me).. I only use it in Affinity Photo, thankfully (Two monitor workflow). But I see a lot of people are noticing... (seeing other threads about this popping up in the forum)

• Dragging the new images to my other monitor works but strange about the window size issue... 

 

------------------------

Fernando Velarde

www.velarde.com

Instagram.com/soyfervelarde

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One window is apparently the main window. I didn't try to resize it once I realized the toolbar can't be detached, as in Separated Mode. The whole point was to have ALL the tools on one monitor and ALL the documents on the other. When a bunch of tools are connected to the primary document, that's not possible. It's a deal breaker for me.

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6 hours ago, Ricardov said:

Like everyone, bought the suite

No offense, but seriously:

Why don't you guys make actual use of the 30 Days Trial Mode before you buy?!
My goodness…

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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33 minutes ago, loukash said:

Why don't you guys make actual use of the 30 Days Trial Mode before you buy?!

How would that have made a difference? The problem is not with requesting a refund, which is dead simple, it is with the removal of what we consider a vital aspect of the tool.

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1 minute ago, spinhead said:

The problem is not with requesting a refund, which is dead simple

Sure. Then please do so.

1 minute ago, spinhead said:

it is with the removal of what we consider a vital aspect of the tool.

Then why the urge to use the "I-bought-it-blindly-and-now-I'm-oh-so-disappointed" argument in a feature request? I don't get it.

For the record, In the beginng of my usage of Affinity (i.e. since 2014) I was also all for the Separated Mode. But it never worked as well as I would have needed, so eventually I got used to the "unified window" mode. But that's just me, of course.

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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Why the argumentative tone? I did not buy it blindly, I bought it with full confidence in the company selling it, based on years of experience with the previous version. And I have, in fact, already requested a refund, so I don't need your instruction to do so.

There was no "argument" and we're not making a "feature request." We are expressing our disappointment. If you are not disappointed, your comments might possibly show a lack of perception of our perspective.

If you're walking past a conversation in which you have no interest, and which, in fact, seems to annoy you, rather than butting in and telling those involved to change their behavior, why not just keep walking? Your only comments here have been negative ad hominem pokes, adding nothing, and riling normally calm and reserved people like me who, frankly, don't need or deserve your attitude.

If you have something productive and helpful to say, spell it out.

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I't would have been nice for an improved Separated mode rather than getting rid - I've always had photoshop setup this way, CS5 still works great like this in Mojave - the float mode is pretty useless in it's current state, and can't even do the super handy application windows shortcut (I have F10 setup) to see all and select the files you have open which only works in separated view - I really hope it makes a comeback? 

Anyhow, V2 is still a total steal as it stands with the Universal Licence.

Daz1.png

Mac Pro Cheese-grater (Early 2009) 2.93 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon 48 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC Ram, Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5, Ugee 19" Graphics Tablet Monitor Triple boot via OCLP 1.2.1 - Mac OS Monterey 12.7.1, Sonoma 14.1.1 and Mojave 10.14.6

Affinity Publisher, Designer and Photo 1.10.5 - 2.2.1

www.bingercreative.co.uk

 

 

 

 

 

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On 11/10/2022 at 10:52 AM, Dazmondo77 said:

I't would have been nice for an improved Separated mode rather than getting rid - I've always had photoshop setup this way, CS5 still works great like this in Mojave - the float mode is pretty useless in it's current state, and can't even do the super handy application windows shortcut (I have F10 setup) to see all and select the files you have open which only works in separated view - I really hope it makes a comeback? 

Anyhow, V2 is still a total steal as it stands with the Universal Licence

 

1) Separate Mode in MacOS was always a little "wonky" but it worked... For some reason they didn't  want to mess with it in all these years.

New windows were opening behind the floating tools, windows not resizing to  the new images zoom size... and such.. So in V2 I guess the "easy" solution was to just kill it... Hopefully they'll reconsider, improve their floating windows in MacOS and bring it back...  Actually this was the first thing I wanted to test with the 30 day demo... 🙂

I would never have expected they would make the decision to remove it... 

Not a real dealbreaker for me .. as I tested it and its workable... And Photo is the only app I use in Separate Mode, but I see other people will not be as forgiving in their workflow.

 

2) By the way, I agree... Whoever in Serif came up with the concept/pricing for the "Universal License" is a GENIUS and deserves a raise... ja

Really makes buying it an impulse buy... haven't seen a deal like this before. 

 

 

------------------------

Fernando Velarde

www.velarde.com

Instagram.com/soyfervelarde

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11 minutes ago, velarde said:

So in V2 I guess the "easy" solution was to just kill it...

I figured it was because: 

  1. Almost no one in the forums was admitting using it, let alone saying how much they liked it and how much it helped them; and
  2. Almost every time someone asked a question where Separated Mode could be the answer, and we suggested it, they complained about it; and
  3. They had a different method on Windows which most people seemed to like.

So they did away with Separated Mode and did something close to the Windows implementation.

Maybe if more Mac users had been praising how much Separated Mode helped their workflow, they'd have kept it?

(But this is all just a guess, from a Windows user.)

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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38 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

let alone saying how much they liked it and how much it helped them

Haha, to quote myself from a post 3 years ago:

On 12/14/2019 at 9:12 PM, loukash said:

And for the record:
I strongly dislike the "one-window" mode, but the "separated" mode is so bad that I'm trying hard to get used to the one-window mode anyway.

And I succeeded. :D 

38 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

did something close to the Windows implementation

And you can kinda emulate the separated mode to a certain degree. It works better on large displays. Then just add a blank document to keep the main window alive for the toolbars:

apu2_floatingmode.thumb.png.8ecd1ebc1ca66e8fb8be28ad6559bf25.png

MacBookAir 15": MacOS Ventura > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // MacBookPro 15" mid-2012: MacOS El Capitan > Affinity v1 / MacOS Catalina > Affinity v1, v2, v2 beta // iPad 8th: iPadOS 16 > Affinity v2

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2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

I figured it was because: 

  1. Almost no one in the forums was admitting using it, let alone saying how much they liked it and how much it helped them; and
  2. Almost every time someone asked a question where Separated Mode could be the answer, and we suggested it, they complained about it; and
  3. They had a different method on Windows which most people seemed to like.

So they did away with Separated Mode and did something close to the Windows implementation.

Maybe if more Mac users had been praising how much Separated Mode helped their workflow, they'd have kept it?

(But this is all just a guess, from a Windows user.)

I can't speak to your experience, @walt.farrell , or to what others did or didn't say, but I have loudly proclaimed the joy of Separated Mode since the day I bought Photo, and never saw it touted as a solution to anything.

But, no, even if the 3 of us who used it all day every day had written epic poems praising Separated Mode, it was clear from the confused responses to my very first forum post, and the ongoing 'eh?' every time I asked if this, that, or the other challenge with Separated Mode for Mac was ever going to be addressed in an update, that it was one of those times that the squeaky wheel, instead of grease, got replaced. (Now that's a song I DID write.) No profit-seeking enterprise is going to throw money at an obscure challenge affecting a tiny user base. I'd love to have seen it fixed, but Serif is a business, not my buddy with a programming company.

It is what it is. Back to using v1, and now that I know I'm on my own, munging some scripts to fiddle with the issues myself.

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3 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Almost no one in the forums was admitting using it, let alone saying how much they liked it and how much it helped them; and

If they are like me, the other Mac users just turned Separate Mode on the first five minutes from owning the programs, and just forgot it. Like the Application Frame in the Adobe programs: never seen that single-window mode used on any Mac in decades.

Paolo

 

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5 minutes ago, PaoloT said:

If they are like me, the other Mac users just turned Separate Mode on the first five minutes from owning the programs, and just forgot it.

I obviously am not like you 🙂

It depends heavily on what you are using the apps for and on your workflow, which one makes more sense to use.  For me, it is not currently the most sensible choice to use separated mode.

However, for those times when I might have had something going on where I would want to use it...  this new monstrosity is very questionable.  I think it would get very old very fast.  When I first started looking at it I thought it was a nice touch for those NOT using separated mode, and would occasionally make sense to use, but it is far from a suitable replacement for what separated mode had to offer.  It should have complemented it instead.

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