V2 Pricing for users V1

[Dan C]

2 minutes ago, csadam said:

You say that you cannot identify users that bought V1 in, for example Mac appstore.

But if I buy the V2 universal license now in the Mac appstore, then my software can be activated on an other Windows machine too. So you can still identify me, right?

V2 of the Affinity apps and the new licensing procedure has been built from the ground-up for this version, we've had to work directly with both Apple and Microsoft to get this working across platforms - unfortunately none of the same processes are compatible or available in V1, as V1 wasn't originally designed to be cross platform (we launched on macOS only, before porting to Windows and then iPad)

[searley]

sadly when i bough just over a year ago, it was offered with free updates,  so it seems to me the way to generate more income is stop updating and add new versions

 

 

[Dan C]

5 minutes ago, searley said:

sadly when i bough just over a year ago, it was offered with free updates

Our licenses have always been sold on a per-version basis - any user purchasing Version 1 will have received all Version 1 updates free of charge. Version 2 is a new license and therefore a new purchase, and you will receive all Version 2 updates free of charge.

[NBabout]

Dear administrators, keep climbing the mirrors and coming up with meaningless excuses. You can say very well that you have fooled many people like me who have bought all the v1 licenses for a few months, with a lot of bugs that will never be fixed because they abound in development. I am nobody and I don't have the money to do it, but I believe this policy can be prosecuted legally. Don't worry about me, you have nothing to fear, I'm poor, you just lost someone who trusted you and believed in your product ..

[ceocan]

Why are so many people complaining about the price of V2? This is total crap. $119 is a steal for three pieces of software that you can use on mac, windows and ipad. Serif can't give them away for free, they need to make some money and keep the business afloat. V1 lasted for 8 years. An incredible run with all free updates. Let's look it from the Adobe side of thing. Adobe Creative Cloud costs $50 a month and you can't use it anymore after you stop paying. CoralDRAW Suite is $25 a month of $600 one time purchase. VectorStyler is $99 and just one piece of software. All the whiny people need to grow up and understand that nothing is free in this life and nobody is entitled to anything.

If you bought V1 recently it's just bad luck but the software doesn't change a bit. It's still the same piece of software you bought and won't expire. Besides that, if you did a bit of research before buying V1 you could have known it released about 8 years ago and software usually doen't have such a long run without any new paid version. There were also a lot of rumours about a V2 going on for a long time. 

[CB1978]

tough crowd!  my take - first off, I have re-purchased the v2, having used Affinity for 2 years.  

 

That said, I do somewhat agree with current users.  Existing users have allowed Affinity to cut into the creative marketplace, and it's understandable that we feel like we should have more of a discount than the "new user".  If everyone has a product key from V1, it seems that using that as verification would be sufficient?  Maybe more difficult of a task but probably something you should look into going forward.

My hope that in the near future you will release some AI functions.  Even if they are considered an "add-on" purchase or something, I think most people would be fine in paying for functionality that is similar to what PS is providing.  These functions are becoming almost a necessary in many peoples workflows, especially for professionals.  

[csadam]

17 minutes ago, Dan C said:

V2 of the Affinity apps and the new licensing procedure has been built from the ground-up for this version, we've had to work directly with both Apple and Microsoft to get this working across platforms - unfortunately none of the same processes are compatible or available in V1, as V1 wasn't originally designed to be cross platform (we launched on macOS only, before porting to Windows and then iPad)

What about a simple registration process? The users log in to their affinity account in the application, and the application sends the activation status to the server. This way you will know what users already have which V1 software.

I just want to point out that if you would want to do it, then it would be possible somehow. I mean, all other software vendors can do it.
However it seems it is already decided and you won't do it.

Given that the 40% release discount is time limited (but you don't tell us how long, creating FOMO), what happens after the deal finishes?
Everybody can buy only for full price. If an unfortunate user purchased V1 licenses a few months ago, he now has an unsupported software without any incentive to buy it again.

My disappointment is not just about that extra discount an upgrade path gives, but the missing principle about appreciating the existing users.

 

What about the future? If you release the V3 (when?) will there any upgrade path that time? Or do you use the same tactic as now?

[Pšenda]

26 minutes ago, NBabout said:

but I believe this policy can be prosecuted legally.

Too bad you didn't heed my call to back up your claims - that Serif stated in the purchase agreement (or somewhere else) that it would provide "lifetime updates" to its apps. Surely there would be a skilled lawyer here who would help you with the lawsuit.
P.S. I'm curious myself, because I've had Affinity apps for 6/3 years now, and I've never seen anything like this anywhere.

[NBabout]

16 minutes ago, ceocan said:

hy are so many people complaining about the price of V2? This is total crap. $119 is a steal for three pieces of software that you can use on mac, windows and ipad. Serif can't give them away for free, they need to make some money and keep the business afloat. V1 lasted for 8 years. An incredible run with all free updates. Let's look it from the Adobe side of thing. Adobe Creative Cloud costs $50 a month and you can't use it anymore after you stop paying. CoralDRAW Suite is $25 a month of $600 one time purchase. VectorStyler is $99 and just one piece of software. All the whiny people need to grow up and understand that nothing is free in this life and nobody is entitled to anything.

If you bought V1 recently it's just bad luck but the software doesn't change a bit. It's still the same piece of software you bought and won't expire. Besides that, if you did a bit of research before buying V1 you could have known it released about 8 years ago and software usually doen't have such a long run without any new paid version. There were also a lot of rumours about a V2 going on for a long time. 

Before writing untrue things and defining whiny people, you should read what is the point of disagreement on the affinity policy. Nobody asked for the upgrade to version V2 for free, but simply not to have the same discount as those who buy the software for the first time, and especially for people like me who have bought version V1 a few months ago.
It seems to me a poor speech to write that I was unlucky, if you knew that the V2 version was released in November you could write it on the site, so everyone decided with full knowledge of the facts whether to buy it or not.
I in my small way feel cheated, mainly on principle. It is also useless to make comparisons with adobe or corel or others, those are real scams.

[Pšenda]

11 minutes ago, CB1978 said:

If everyone has a product key from V1

But applications from the Mac/MS store "don't" have a product key! And that's what Serif mentions all the time - because we don't have the ability to distinguish existing users from "all" stores, we give a very generous discount to everyone. And this discount is even higher than they would give a discount knowing existing users. So your only profit would be that you would pay more than today with a 40% discount, but new users would get nothing (I'm finally satisfied). Regardless of the fact that the discount is limited in time, so it will only be used by those who find out about it in time - which is with a high probability only the existing user who received the information email, goes here to the forum, or to FB/Twitter/.. .Other/new users will most likely not find out in time, and therefore will probably not take advantage of the existing generous discount.

[Pšenda]

33 minutes ago, NBabout said:

Nobody asked for the upgrade to version V2 for free

Hi NBabout,
sorry but it seems to me that you are not consistent in your views. Now you claim that nobody wanted/asked to upgrade to V2 for free, but in previous responses you state how Serif cheated you because they promised to provide a lifetime update for free, which is the exact opposite of your current claim.

7 hours ago, NBabout said:

only that there would be been free updates for life, this is called false advertising!

3 hours ago, NBabout said:

lifetime updates were promised

 

However, I understand your point that in a situation where Serif knew they were working on version 2 (even though they didn't know the exact release date yet), they could have given that information to buyers. For example, by giving a some kind of discount on their products, because the release of version 2 is being prepared (let everyone choose whether to buy the discounted product or wait a year/two?). But here is the problem - should he have done this a year ago?, two years ago? - work on version 2 probably took much longer. And there would still be users who would feel aggrieved because they bought the app a few days before that deadline.

[Old Bruce]

1 minute ago, Pšenda said:

And there would still be users who would feel aggrieved because they bought the app a few days before that deadline.

Similar to any shopping experience. Ever paid full price for a coat and then seen it on sale the next day?

[Dangerous]

So many people complaining that the pittance they paid for version 1 does not give them free updates and upgrades for the next 50 years or more! How many of them actually bought the programs in a half price sale? Should those who paid half price get less discount than those that paid full price?

If you are not happy go and rent off adobe and when you stop paying their excessive subs you will be left with files you don't have software for because they will stop you using theirs' very quickly. Or you could use gimp unless that is also out of your price range!

 

 

[NBabout]

27 minutes ago, Pšenda said:

lifetime updates were promised

It refers to v1, but since v2 is now out, all the bugs and malfunctions of version 1 will no longer be fixed

[Bad_Wolf]

I can only agree with Psenda and Old Bruce. More than a year ago I bought a Udemy course for about 84 euros because I really was interested in it. The other day, I found out there was a promotion where the exactly same course was 9,99 euros. I indeed regretted that I didn't a day longer. I could have blamed Udemy for not letting me know the next day was a sale, but I didn't. I successfully finished that course and I used what I have learned to provide better services, better courses. The person who bought the course a day later, was just luckier than I.

Another point is that as others already mentioned, if you visited the forum regularly, you could know that Serif was working on a V2 version. I cannot remember when the last V1 update was, but I assume it was early this year. There were even death rumours for the Affinity suite:). When reading between the lines, people should have known that the V2 upgrade was coming.

I am using Affinity for Windows since 2016, with indeed free updates all the time. After a couple of years, I became concerned how a small software company like Serif could have enough revenue to sustain this "free" update model. For many people here, who are relying on Affinity, it is very important that Serif earns enough revenue. Only the Sun comes up for free!

And for those who still do not understand an example. Lets say you make a drawing for a customer and that customer pays you for that drawing. Now the next day, that same customer asks you to make another drawing based on that first one. You know you are gonna work another 2 weeks on that second drawing. The second drawing is finished and you are delivering to that customer. But the customer said, I already paid for the first drawing, you have to give the second drawing for free. Do you see my point?

Serif stated that they created version v2 completely from the ground up to make it truly multi-platform. This means that v1 and v2 are two different codebases. I am sure Serif can maintain both codebases perfectly by hiring more skilled staff. However and believe me, this will result in a severe price increase. To be honest, I think it will need a monthly subsciption plan to cover these costs because it will become an ongoing simultanious development process.

So my suggestion to Serif is, make v1 a subscription plan of about 20 euros /month (that is the cheapest plan for Illustrator). This will fund the development for maintaining v1 and everybody is satisfied not?

But you can also look it from another perspective. Indeed, you have to pay now 119 euros for  the unversal licence. However, that licence gives you a lot more features and possibilities. After the upgrade, you can also raise your price for a drawing or publication. You can invest time to master those new features like the shape builder and once mastered, it can save you time or let you draw more sophisticated artwork.

Negativity is your worst enemy and advisor. Keep positive, resourcefull and creative.

Chris

[debraspicher]

2 hours ago, NBabout said:

Dear administrators, keep climbing the mirrors and coming up with meaningless excuses. You can say very well that you have fooled many people like me who have bought all the v1 licenses for a few months, with a lot of bugs that will never be fixed because they abound in development. I am nobody and I don't have the money to do it, but I believe this policy can be prosecuted legally. Don't worry about me, you have nothing to fear, I'm poor, you just lost someone who trusted you and believed in your product ..

I'm not a customer service expert, but it sounds like you should be eligible for free upgrade. I think you should contact them (if that's what you want). I thought their policy is at least 30 days but have read at points here it may be up to 90?...

[NBabout]

10 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

So many people complaining that the pittance they paid for version 1 does not give them free updates and upgrades for the next 50 years or more! How many of them actually bought the programs in a half price sale? Should those who paid half price get less discount than those that paid full price?

If you are not happy go and rent off adobe and when you stop paying their excessive subs you will be left with files you don't have software for because they will stop you using theirs' very quickly. Or you could use gimp unless that is also out of your price range!

Again I repeat, no one has asked for free lifetime updates, but that there is a different treatment for those who are already users from new users. Is this such an abstruse reasoning?

[NBabout]

4 minutes ago, Bad_Wolf said:

I am using Affinity for Windows since 2016

If I had bought it for a long time like you, I would have nothing to object to, it would mean that I took full advantage of the software, but what annoys me is that I bought it 5 months ago and didn't use it at all

[Bad_Wolf]

I think everything is already said what could be said about the matter.

The solution is very simple, like somebody else already mentioned, buy an Adobe subscription or use free software and everybody is happy. Besides Adobe, we have Inkscape, Canva, Gimp all good COMPLETELY free alternatives. I would say; choices enough! Now I have to go back to work.

[Bad_Wolf]

@NBabout,

You bought Affinity 5 months ago and you didn't use it at all, what is your problem then? Are you going to upgrade an application which you didn't use?

I do agree with you, I am using Affinity since the beginning. However, at the time I switched many times I wished I remained with DrawPlus. By the way, I also renewed my DrawPlus licence just before the release of Affinity Designer and had to pay the same value as anybody else. Back in 2016, I just bought an Affinity licence, removed DrawPlus from my laptop and moved on without looking back. Correction, DrawPlus was removed a few weeks later because I found out, I was constantly switching to DrawPlus because I knew it better than Designer.

It is what it is. This forum is not the place to complain about the pricing. I can only advice you to contact Serif directly and explain your case. Maybe in that way you can have your extra discount.

I really do hope this kind of rants stop because they are not adding anything constructive any more. Maybe it is time for the moderators to close this thread.

Chris

 

[Dangerous]

19 minutes ago, NBabout said:

Again I repeat, no one has asked for free lifetime updates, but that there is a different treatment for those who are already users from new users. Is this such an abstruse reasoning?

I have seen a lot of people saying they were promised lifetime upgrades FREE and claim Serif have reneged on their promise.

 

[Dan C]

Our licenses have always been sold as a version license - purchasing V1 entitled the user to updates for the duration of that version, and V2 was always planned to be a paid for update.

This is information we have been providing since we first began selling the apps, and has not changed.

For example: here in 2018 & here in 2019 - including in our previous emails etc.

[CB1978]

1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

But applications from the Mac/MS store "don't" have a product key! And that's what Serif mentions all the time - because we don't have the ability to distinguish existing users from "all" stores, we give a very generous discount to everyone. And this discount is even higher than they would give a discount knowing existing users. So your only profit would be that you would pay more than today with a 40% discount, but new users would get nothing (I'm finally satisfied). Regardless of the fact that the discount is limited in time, so it will only be used by those who find out about it in time - which is with a high probability only the existing user who received the information email, goes here to the forum, or to FB/Twitter/.. .Other/new users will most likely not find out in time, and therefore will probably not take advantage of the existing generous discount.

Ahhh...  Good to know. Didn't realize there was no product key with Mac/MS store purchases.  

Affinity seems like a fair company, so I would only suspect that going forward, they will find a way to distinguish between current vs. new customers.  This is only their first major update, so process improvements pertaining to customer service/retention will obviously be seriously looked at.... Maybe they'll be able to find a way to make things right for people who purchased V1 within the last few months, and definitely should be able to upgrade to the new version w/o having to pay again.  

Lol, and for people who reference getting an Adobe subscription, that's almost ridiculous...Because if someone has a problem with Affinity pricing, a $20 or $50 bundle monthly subscription is not even remotely an option.  And for me personally, it's not so much the subscription, but the absolute drain the Adobe background tasks do to your computer.  It's basically Malware!  

[Bruno Belo]

2 hours ago, ceocan said:

Por que tantas pessoas reclamam do preço do V2? Isso é uma porcaria total. $ 119 é uma pechincha para três softwares que você pode usar no mac, windows e ipad. Serif não pode entregá-los de graça, eles precisam ganhar algum dinheiro e manter o negócio à tona. V1 durou 8 anos. Uma corrida incrível com todas as atualizações gratuitas. Vamos olhar do lado da Adobe. A Adobe Creative Cloud custa US$ 50 por mês e você não pode mais usá-la depois de parar de pagar. O CoralDRAW Suite custa US$ 25 por mês em uma compra única de US$ 600. O VectorStyler custa US $ 99 e apenas um software. Todas as pessoas choronas precisam crescer e entender que nada é de graça nesta vida e ninguém tem direito a nada.

Se você comprou o V1 recentemente, é apenas azar, mas o software não muda nem um pouco. Ainda é o mesmo software que você comprou e não expira. Além disso, se você pesquisou um pouco antes de comprar o V1, poderia saber que ele foi lançado há cerca de 8 anos e o software geralmente não dura tanto tempo sem uma nova versão paga. Havia também muitos rumores sobre um V2 acontecendo por um longo tempo. 

Exact! I understand people sad and v1 users, i am a V1 user, and use the software for freelancer jobs only and yess we like a discount for v1 but the actual price and licensing system is very cool. In a future Affinity think more for this situation.

[jmwellborn]

It would be so helpful if people would actually read all Terms and Conditions when they consider buying something, whether a car, a computer, or some software.  If they don’t quite understand, there is always Google Translate, or Deepl.  But to misinterpret Serif’s clearly used terms of “update” and “upgrade” is not a valid excuse for demanding special consideration.  As for me, I was very happy with v1.  I am even more happy with v2.  There will undoubtedly be many free updates to v2.  And then at some point in time there will be a paid upgrade which will be v3.  

Mac didn’t start with Big Sur or Ventura all those years ago.  I now have Big Sur and don’t want to upgrade to Ventura.  But to get to Big Sur in order to access the capabilities of the M1 chip, I had to buy a new computer.  And it wasn’t $100.00.  If people don’t want the wonderful new capabilities of Affinity V2, that is entirely up to them.  But if they do, then it would seem that they might graciously accept the very generous offer from Serif.