Dungarven Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Hi again! Your help with generating a Table of Contents would be appreciated. I have followed the instructions and tutorials but have run into problems. I can't get the TOC to generate the page numbers. It will only show me the Headings. I formatted the headings using my chosen style, Half Right Title. There is also something odd going on because although the headings are all styled the same way in the desired Open Sans Font, all Caps, one entry in the TOC appears without a capital T for Two. Screen shot of TOC Page below. Any clues, anyone? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Look in the TOC studio panel. To the right of the style names you will find a settings icon ("burger" menu, if I remember correctly). One of the options there is to include the page number. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstdefence Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 A Visual to backup Walts post... walt.farrell 1 Quote iMac 27" 2019 Somona 14.3.1, iMac 27" Affinity Designer, Photo & Publisher V1 & V2, Adobe, Inkscape, Vectorstyler, Blender, C4D, Sketchup + more... XP-Pen Artist-22E, - iPad Pro 12.9 (Please refrain from licking the screen while using this forum) Affinity Help - Affinity Desktop Tutorials - Feedback - FAQ - most asked questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 Thank you, Walt and firstdefence. That worked like a charm! I am stoked! It looks great! walt.farrell and firstdefence 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 PS. For future reference, if I want to add the epsilons.... between the entry and the page number next time, how would I do that? Clicking on bullet in drop down only gets me one bullet after the chapter entry. I'd also like to know how to change the position of the TOC - clicking on the tab indent etc in the drop down doesn't seem to do anything. If you can refer me to the instructions or a tutorial to explain, that might be easier for you, and I would be grateful. I don't want to have to trouble you with long explanations! It is good of you to give me your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 What do you mean by "epsilons"? Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 Sorry! I meant elipses ...... dots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 26, 2022 Author Share Posted October 26, 2022 My first image above shows my TOC as generated except now I know how to put numbers in, thanks to you! So that is all good. I was able to edit the format so that my TOC was a bit fancier. See image below and was very happy with it. Unfortunately, my preflight checker is not happy about these changes, and if I click on Fix it reverts to the format shown above, (but with number). Could someone please enlighten me as to how I can put my TOC into a more pleasing format that will pass preflight checks? Here is what I hope to achieve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bruce Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 You'll need to have two unique Paragraph Styles in the Document. One for the Parts "PART ONE" (Call it Part Headings) and one for the titles, "From Pillar to Post" (Call it Titles Headings). Set up the ToC to have the page numbers for the Titles Headings but not have page numbers for the Part Headings. Finally you may need to have the Part Headings lower in the Layers panel than the Titles Headings if they are in separate Text Frames, if they are in the actual text flow then all should be good. You can have the two Paragraph Styles based on other styles with nothing changed except the name of the text style. This means you can have a Chapter Heading that the Part Headings is based on and they will look identical in the publication, same font, size and weight etc but the Chapter Headings won't be included in the ToC. Quote Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 Affinity Designer 2.4.1 | Affinity Photo 2.4.1 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.1 | Beta versions as they appear. I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 15 hours ago, Dungarven said: Sorry! I meant elipses ...... dots! For the leader dots, you need to update the Text Style used for the TOC entries. If you put the text cursor into the TOC, in a heading that needs the dots, you will see in the Context Toolbar or in the Text Styles panel what Text Style is used. For example, you might see that "TOC 1: Heading 2" is the text style: In the Text Styles panel, right-click on that Text Style and choose the option to Edit it. In the Text Style edit dialog, click on Tab Stops in the list on the left. It will probably look like this: Click on the ... icon, and change the leader to a . like this: Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Note that there are clear design flaws (omissions) in the way Publisher has currently implemented the TOC styles. Here is an example of how dots or ellipses would typically be used as separators in an automatically created table of contents that uses TOC styles. The top row represents the inherent TOC styling generated for Heading 1 styled paragraphs. Note that by default separating characters (here dots) and page number use the styling (here bold) and font size (here 14pt) of the parent style. The middle row shows how an ellipses character would look if used as a separator instead of the in-built dot separator. Ellipses has dots a bit more loosely spaced compared to using just dots in sequence, and typically also leaves more space between the separating dots and the page number, but the third row shows why it is not necessarily a good idea to use ellipses as a separator, since if tracking is applied it would produce uneven spacing of dots. The fourth row shows manually adjusted TOC styles where separating dots and the page number have been normalized so that they are similarly formatted disregarding the TOC level. Whether this is wanted is much a matter of personal preference or house style (or specific style and outlook of the publication), but the problem with Publisher is that it does not seem to allow creation of custom character styles for an automatically generated TOC or even applying non-TOC character styles for TOC entries, so these kinds of formats need to be applied manually, which is quite tedious if the TOC is long and complex. Typically TOC needs to be updated (or regenerated) multiple times during a book project so reapplying formatting becomes easily painful. Publisher does have separate formatting for TOC numbers but this style is not applied to separators, and it would of course be useful to have separate formatting style that is applied for the separators (InDesign e.g. has this feature, and it additionally naturally also allows the user to manually apply any style on TOC elements without restricting available styles to just in-built styles). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 Thank you Walt. Your explanations and illustrations make it very easy to follow. Success! I now know how to add leader dots. I think esthetically I prefer it without in tis case, but am very pleased I can do it now! Thank you. Thank you too, Old Bruce. Very kind of you to take the trouble to enlighten me! That made perfect sense and it worked a treat. We are getting closer! Now my TOC looks as seen below. But if I format it so that the PART ONE is in caps and there is no paragraph break between that and the name of the part, Pre-flight checker rings alarm bells again. So,is there a way to format the TOC to look prettier and have the Part titles closer to the PART Numbers? That lower case t in Part Two is still a mystery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 Thank you Iacerto. Your analysis is very comprehensive and much appreciated. I am beginning to get an understanding of the limitations of Affpub. What would you suggest as a work around? Type up a last minute TOC? It is such a simple one with only four parts and their titles, this may be the best alternative for me. Red lights in pre-flight are to be avoided at all costs I gather. Once again, sincere thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 36 minutes ago, Dungarven said: What would you suggest as a work around? Type up a last minute TOC? It is such a simple one with only four parts and their titles, this may be the best alternative for me. Last minute generation (and keeping the old TOC as a formatting model and reference) may be the only possibility especially if creating digital PDFs with active TOC links. If the TOC is very complex it might be less tedious to just have a manual TOC and then generate automatic TOCs to get the up-to-date page numbers (and other changes) for a reference for comparison and checking. Links can also be created in PDF editors (and some editors allow automation also in this context which helps a lot in maintenance of complex bookmarks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 I have managed to update my TOC styles with PART ONE formatting, so now if I can just remove the spaces between the PART and its name, I will be done! Can that be done? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 In case you use baseline grid but want to avoid its use as per text frame or paragraph, you can override baseiine alignment by using the Text Frame panel and either ignore document baseline grid, or specify text frame specific different baseline grid; or, you can use the Baseline Grid section of the Paragraph panel and turn off alignment to document and text frame baseline. In context of TOC and if the TOC entries are based on TOC styles, you can define the baseline alignment behavior as a paragraph style setting. TOC styles are by default based on TOC Entry style so it would be adequate to just turn off baseline alignment for that style: After having turned off baseline alignment, you can define the desired spacing between TOC entries by specifying settings for Space before and Space after paragraph settings (typically a bit different spacing for different TOC levels). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 Thanks again, lacerto. What you have suggested should have worked, but unfortunately, the preflight alarm was triggered in each case. I guess Affinity Publishers have decided double spaced TOCs are all the rage and that's all you can have! Guess that only leaves the manual option with last minute update as you said. Another question, please. I would like to know how to delete the tab separators and replace with an em dash. I can insert the em dash OK, but clicking on the tab to deselect it only added another line of tabs! The author of this guide was not helpful when it came to removing tabs. How would you achieve this effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Dungarven said: I can insert the em dash OK, but clicking on the tab to deselect it only added another line of tabs! The author of this guide was not helpful when it came to removing tabs. How would you achieve this effect? I'm not sure what you mean. Your screenshot only shows an em-dash, not a tab, as I see it. You would probably do yourself a favor by creating a short test document and play with it. Then if you need help you can share the test document so we can more easily see what you're doing, and make suggestions with more information available. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacerto Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Dungarven said: Thanks again, lacerto. What you have suggested should have worked, but unfortunately, the preflight alarm was triggered in each case. That is odd, I wonder what it is that triggers the warning (unless paragraph spacing not governed by baseline alignment causes increased spacing and overflow of text included in the TOC text frame. I suppose the preflight shows cause for the warning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 9 hours ago, Dungarven said: but unfortunately, the preflight alarm was triggered in each case. What was the exact preflight error message? Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 On 10/27/2022 at 6:12 AM, Dungarven said: so now if I can just remove the spaces between the PART and its name, I will be done! Can that be done? All the TOC styles inherit from the Text Style named Base, and Base specifies a "Space After" value of 12 pt. So, you should be able to put the cursor in one of the PART entries (which will highlight/select its Text Style in the Text Styles panel) and right-click that entry in the Text Styles panel and choose Edit <text-style-name>. Then Click on the Spacing entry in the Paragraph section of the Edit dialog. Change the Space After from [No Change] to 0 pt. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungarven Posted October 29, 2022 Author Share Posted October 29, 2022 Once again, Walt, you cracked it. I thought I had already changed that spacing, but maybe I forgot to click OK. Anyway, that issue is now sorted. Thank you, thank you, thank you! And my thanks to others who all helped too. Much appreciated. Any suggestions for the idea of an em dash without the tabs please, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walt.farrell Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 5 hours ago, Dungarven said: Any suggestions for the idea of an em dash without the tabs please, anyone? As I mentioned earlier, it looks fine to me in your screenshot so I'm not sure what you're talking about. More examples, or that sample file I also requested, would also help. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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