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Strange Font Output Error


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Hello there

I am having a problem with saving a document as a vector. When looking at it in Publisher, it all looks fine. But as soon as I save as a vector (PDF, SVG, etc) in any way, strange chunks will appear.

Saving it as a PNG/JPG does not display these errors.

I have tried using other fonts, which don't seem to be creating the problem. But I like this font and have already spend a good a amount of time on the project before I noticed it.

FontErrors.png

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2 hours ago, Neros said:

I have tried using other fonts, which don't seem to be creating the problem. But I like this font and have already spend a good a amount of time on the project before I noticed it.

It would probably help to know what font you are having this problem with....

Affinity Photo 1.10.5, Affinity Designer 1.10.5, Affinity Publisher 1.10.5;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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1.10.5.280 & Affinity Designer 1.10.5 for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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1 minute ago, PixelPest said:

Seems the whole font is a mess.

Any idea what this font is?

Affinity Photo 1.10.5, Affinity Designer 1.10.5, Affinity Publisher 1.10.5;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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I also wonder about the white outline, like if it is a stroke added to a text layer set to no fill. 

Affinity Photo 1.10.5, Affinity Designer 1.10.5, Affinity Publisher 1.10.5;  2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
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12 hours ago, R C-R said:

It would probably help to know what font you are having this problem with....

11 hours ago, PixelPest said:

Not 100% sure. Could be GothamExtraNarrow - but pretty sure just a clone by all the noise it´s producing.

That is an excellent question, and one I should have included.. Sorry about that.

The font is called Gotham (it is the black one), but I have stretched it here and there.

And the outline is a stroke with a white fill.

And I have also not tried to power up the old adobe illustrator and use the font there. But here the font shows normally when saving as a pdf. 

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@Neros Could you attach your demo document so we can test?

What version number and font format of Gotham are you using?
There have been some random artifact issues reported when using TTF fonts (which are TrueType outlines) and the text is nested within multiple shapes and/or with strokes applied (which are PS outlines). Appears APub (and Designer) get confused by the different curve formats.
Gotham is usually OTF, but there are old T1 conversions and rips out there which are TTF.
If you are using TTF, then the work-around is to use OTF.

So what exact font are you using? Type, style, version number, etc.
 

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As far as I can see, the font is a OTF, it is called Gotham Black and the version is 001.000.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1znHE9piPO39enPPkL9KWpwaupJvQn69U?usp=sharing

But I am only having this problem in the Affinity family products. But it is just strange that the fault is with the font when Adobe Illustrator don't generate the same error.

Test.afpub

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2 hours ago, Neros said:

As far as I can see, the font is a OTF, it is called Gotham Black and the version is 001.000.

Try a TTF version of that font instead ...

... and also check/test before if the all caps (TT) toggle function behaves right for your OTF font version in terms of those chunks.

☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.5 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.5 ◆ OSX El Capitan

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Apparently, I already had that version installed.

So I have tried to uninstall the font and reinstall both the TTF and the OTF version. But the errors still appear.

I have also now tried to change the stroke placement from "Outside", to "Centret", and with that there is no "output error" at all. It only happens when it is set to "Outside" and when I am using a Affinity Product. Adobe doesn't seem to have the problem.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18EPQjrqYxUJGKosc5BYXocVHFJUsqbCh/view?usp=sharing

Test.afpub

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Same experience here with OTF+TTF. Seems a bug a to me as other SVG editors don´t have a problem with a conversion to curves plus adding strokes etc.

Appears with Contour tool, Expand Stroke, export to PDF with Text-to-path set up. Stroke placements other then "Centre" are non SVG-conform features and will be  converted into color filled shapes incl. mentioned issues.

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@NerosPlease attach the PDF from your example in the first post. I want to see which font actually got embedded.

Did you have all of those fonts (from GDrive) installed? That would definitely be a problem. There are OTF/TTF duplicates.

On my phone at the moment and have not tested anything yet, but my guess is a TTF font actually got embedded. You probably have duplicate font styles installed which is going to cause issues in Affinity applications. From the GDrive limited font info it appears the fonts are really old T1 conversions (2000).

I will be able to look closely at the fonts and doc in an hour or two. And having your PDF then would help. I can also test with current fonts if I cannot resolve it with your fonts. And there are free OFL alternatives for these particular styles.

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56 minutes ago, LibreTraining said:

@NerosPlease attach the PDF from your example in the first post. I want to see which font actually got embedded.

Did you have all of those fonts (from GDrive) installed? That would definitely be a problem. There are OTF/TTF duplicates.

On my phone at the moment and have not tested anything yet, but my guess is a TTF font actually got embedded. You probably have duplicate font styles installed which is going to cause issues in Affinity applications. From the GDrive limited font info it appears the fonts are really old T1 conversions (2000).

I will be able to look closely at the fonts and doc in an hour or two. And having your PDF then would help. I can also test with current fonts if I cannot resolve it with your fonts. And there are free OFL alternatives for these particular styles.

Yea, I should have all those fonts installed. But when I look at the installed fonts on windows, there at least doesn't seem to be duplicates installed (just tried an uninstalling them all, except for Gotham Black, still generates the problem).

The PDF isn't the original, original. It has been changed as I have tried to find out what was wrong. But I have attached it.

Test.pdf

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I have version Version 3.201 Pro OTF version from Hoefler & Co. installed and no duplicate versions and can experience the same issue when used with Affinity apps but not when used e.g. with InDesign.

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Yes, I tested Gotham Black v3.301, only installing the Black OTF font - same issue.
What is odd though is it does not affect some other OTF fonts.
I took a quick look at the Gotham font (v3.301 originals) and did not see anything weird in there. But there must be something in there APub has an issue with.

Metropolis is a free, open source, OFL licensed font family which is similar.
And it works fine. The demo below is the Black OTF font.
The package includes OTF, TTF, and Web fonts. (never install both OTF and TTF)
Metropolis.v11.(2018).zip

It looks like this:
Test.test-3_OTF.Black.Metropolis.cropped.png.4c242ee581ad58307f64b3fb8c862d5b.png

A little tighter, but you can adjust that.

Your Gotham fonts are old T1 conversions which have numerous name errors.
They will not work properly.

Here is what applications see when looking at the names in those fonts:
TransType.Gotham.fonts.errors.thumb.png.e074ef8b080d2e73c70eda709c44707b.png

The red are duplicate name collisions.
The cursor shows how the Book is set as the Bold in the style group (a conflict).
And many more. A complete mess.

Here is the Metropolis family which is what it should look like:
TransType.Metropolis.fonts.correct.thumb.png.a1555a724307c4e9a677af647533d94b.png

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The error seems to be related to the way some glyphs are constructed in this font: Affinity apps do not seem to be able to handle correctly shapes with two adjacent nodes in situations strong outer outline is applied (the error can be reproduced also after these glyphs have been converted to curves). It seems the error can only be corrected by combining the adjacent nodes manually or by "fixing" the font by doing the same in font editor.

 

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Interesting. I combined the "double" nodes in the C, D, O, P, and R.
And that got rid of the artifacts. Good catch.
This is GothamAF-Black (a modified 3.301 OTF version).

Test.test-4_with.GothamAF-Black.cropped.png.f578a940d9d9b7b39622d3ee6eff127e.png

Nothing wrong with the font. This is an Affinity issue.

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7 hours ago, LibreTraining said:

And that got rid of the artifacts. Good catch.

I wonder if there is any design point in constructing symmetry this way, or if this could be some kind of a residue from converting from quadratic B-splines. It seems odd, though that italics versions do have these adjacent nodes combined. And glyphs of course often have superfluous nodes close to each other (though perhaps not so often quite as close as in Gotham), but do not normally show these kinds of artifacts (I tested a few simulating hand writing with lots of nodes -- and additionally inserted a few very close nodes myself -- and they worked ok with heavy outside outline). I thought first that the problems could have been caused by combining outside outline with scale transformations (especially negative scaling), but they happen also with unaltered glyphs.  

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17 hours ago, LibreTraining said:

Metropolis is a free, open source, OFL licensed font family which is similar.
And it works fine. The demo below is the Black OTF font.
The package includes OTF, TTF, and Web fonts. (never install both OTF and TTF)
Metropolis.v11.(2018).zip

I think this could work if no solutions comes up. But so far, it seems like it is a program error and not the font itself.

15 hours ago, lacerto said:

Since the problem only occurs in (most but not all) upright styles of this font family, a cheesy quick fix would be using italics and then use unshear character attribute to straighten the glyphs. You have manipulated the font quite a bit so perhaps this does not hurt...

Tried this, but even after "de-italilicing" it, it has strange tapered look to it. Especially the "D" and "C". But the idea was good non the less.

14 hours ago, LibreTraining said:

Nothing wrong with the font. This is an Affinity issue.

That was what I thought, since I did not have the problem with other similar programs.

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On 10/2/2022 at 10:10 PM, lacerto said:

I wonder if there is any design point in constructing symmetry this way,

Often when you find what seem to be odd extra nodes in full font families which have weight and width styles, and optical size, the reason the nodes are there is to facilitate interpolation in the variable font which includes all those axes in one font.
I do not have the variable font, but I do have the full large family.
So I looked at other weights and widths to see if they required this structure.
The D in the normal Black font we are using here has only 2 units between the nodes on the right side.
In the D in the XNarrow Black that space is 24 units - which gives it a bit of a flat side. In some of the other characters that space is even bigger (e.g. in the O it is 36).
So it appears the designer wants a bit of a flat side in some cases.
And the way interpolation works requires this same structure in all the masters.
Then the static fonts get the same structure as they come from the same masters.

I did test the XNarrow Black font (which mostly has bigger spaces between those nodes) with the test doc and it only showed one artifact with the C. The inner curve on the C only has a space of 6 units between those nodes.

So my guess is it is a design decision and required to facilitate interpolation.

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