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Affinity Future


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I love all affinity products but some of them are missing important features for me. 

To speed up with new releses I was thinking that we need to pay more to them then just 50€ for each app, the best way will be to set financial target for each feature or new plugin.

 

For example :

Vote For New Feature    >   Affinity Designer DXF Support    >    GOL [5000$]    >    Getting new feature

There could be more then one new feature that you can pay and vote.

Something like https://opencollective.com/

 

Kind Regards

Patrick

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19 hours ago, DGee said:

Have you heard of Vectorstyler ? It does everything and there is just one guy behind it. His sales are probably a 1/100000 of affinity sales.

I don’t think pricing is to blame here.

Vectorstyler looks like a single app for Mac and Windows, priced at $99. The website says 2019-2022, so I presume they've been on the market since 2019. 

Affinity produces three apps, each of them for Mac, Windows and iOS. I paid $50 each for Affinity Designer and Photo in 2014. They haven't asked for more money ever since. That's $100 for two apps over the course of 8 years. Publisher was launched later, in 2019 I think. To be honest I can't believe how Affinity managed to survive all these years with this pricing model.

Compare with this: during all this time I've been paying approx. $55 each month to Adobe because, well, you can't survive in this business without paying the "Adobe tax". That's $5280 over the course of 8 years.

 

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1 hour ago, tudor said:

Vectorstyler looks like a single app for Mac and Windows, priced at $99. The website says 2019-2022, so I presume they've been on the market since 2019. 

Affinity produces three apps, each of them for Mac, Windows and iOS. I paid $50 each for Affinity Designer and Photo in 2014. They haven't asked for more money ever since. That's $100 for two apps over the course of 8 years. Publisher was launched later, in 2019 I think. To be honest I can't believe how Affinity managed to survive all these years with this pricing model.

Compare with this: during all this time I've been paying approx. $55 each month to Adobe because, well, you can't survive in this business without paying the "Adobe tax". That's $5280 over the course of 8 years.

 

We're speculating here but I understand that most Affinity sales probably come from mobile devices where they have a competitive edge. That market is absolutely massive and it's steadily growing. As far as I understand Affinity gained big momentum when apple started short of promoting their apps to showcase the iPad potential for the creative market. I can imagine they have been getting a huge and steady flow of income via the app store from mobile devices. I would not underestimate those sales even if people like us are not paying for updates. There has not been major updates worth paying for anyway so I guess expenses have been managed accordingly. If they were short on cash and actively developing these desktop apps they would have naturally charged for implementing new features via an update I'm pretty sure they are not an charity.

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17 minutes ago, DGee said:

I can imagine they have been getting a huge and steady flow of income via the app store from mobile devices.

If they had so much money to spend, they would at least update their iPadOS apps to support features introduced a couple of years ago, like the new file access API.

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Serif is making more money than ever before, and achieving higher profits than ever before. It's not about money. As in not at all. Serif is doing very well.

Serif has probably found a sweet spot in the market that Adobe and co. are not interested in (the little fish), that the other competitors have not been able to attract like Serif. Serif has done this by creating a strong brand, a myth around the products that customers have partly invented themselves, and by using marketing very actively. To their fortune, Apple has used Affinity to advertise their smaller products for more private, creative use. Both companies have probably gained from this, probably mostly Serif. I know supermarkets with a strong brand that also sell small organic brands, not to make money on these products, but as a small part of the whole of their marketing in particular: their OWN brand. The same strategy is used by Apple. Apple works for Apple. 

So my guess is that Serif makes a really good living selling a lot of new licenses without even targeting distant markets like Asia, and that their profits are so high in part because the number of developers is so incredibly small. Furthermore, Serif is not a technology company as such, they use the resources of computers and operating systems to the limit, and they have not developed algorithms or technologies like Adobe. Even StudioLink isn't anything special, it's just the right way to code programs, and Serif did throw a lot of legacy overboard when they started all over with Affinity.

The bad news for you is that with few programmers and money in their pockets AND obviously no competitors threatening them here and now, Serif has no incentive to update the programs at any impressive pace. Serif has the time on its side, and as a form of compensation you get small free updates every year or so within a product cycle (1.x). This is of course a good deal for the many customers who are on a tight budget and at the same time don't need very many features, but it is killing for those who need more and who actually prefer the programs' user interface. I'm thinking in particular of Designer.

So the only real way to motivate Serif to speed up is probably not to buy their programs AND to buy the competitors', and of course that is not an attractive or possible solution either.

So you are customers on Serif's terms as long as the market is not saturated and the competitors do not crowd in. In other words: You must wait or vote with your feet.

Serif works for Serif.

Oh yes. Back to my studio, right. 

10 Reasons Why Strategic Plans Fail
Having a plan simply for plans sake - Not understanding the environment or focusing on results - Partial commitment - Not having the right people involved - Writing the plan and putting it on the shelf - Unwillingness or inability to change - Having the wrong people in leadership positions - No accountability or follow through - Unrealistic goals or lack of focus and resources.

Get it?

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On 8/15/2022 at 9:54 AM, DGee said:

It does everything

And I didn't like it at all last time I tried a Beta. But if you like it, more power to you!

Best regards!

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50 minutes ago, Mithferion said:

And I didn't like it at all last time I tried a Beta. But if you like it, more power to you!

You speak of a distant past. Vectorstyler left the beta phase a very, very long time ago, and has been updated and improved incredibly and significantly over many updates since. And it continues like that. The improvements have mostly been based on customer feedback, and I've seen customers get their suggestions approved and implemented in days or weeks. So instead of walking away, I recommend joining that forum. There is listening, responding, reacting and implementing. The program has been significantly improved in 2022 alone. And since the program is developed so heavily on customer feedback, no strange or sadly simple tools have been implemented like in Affinity Designer - e.g. the contour tool. You really don't know what vector design CAN do until you've tried Vectortyler, Adobe Illustrator or Coreldraw and their many awesome features.

And then we just have the fact that Vectorstyler has almost every feature imaginable (And the rest on the roadmap), at least all the ones Affinity is missing and maybe 100 more (no kidding), and that the missing features on a roadmap that is public. I would guess that there are a lot of Affinity customers who can't afford not to try Vectorstyler, unless they want to pay for Adobe, Coreldrawor spend the rest of their lives on workarounds to do simple things. I don't get the impression from the typical Affinity customer that they have a big budget for software.

It's hilarious that people in here request features for years and hardly see a single one of these requests implemented by Serif (in recent years), while the same features exist in abundance in Vectorstyler or if features are requested, they end up visibly on a public roadmap. If not, the developer tells you directly; there is no uncertainty.

So, instead of the many blathering on in here over thousands of posts that don't make a single difference, I can recommend creatives to give Vectorstyler a try, there is a long trial, and even more recommend that you make your opinion known on Vectorstyler's forum, you can have an influence, e.g. you can get bugs fixed in a week. It's impossible to explain how liberating it is to get rid of software problems so incredibly fast. The license runs for a long time, so you're spoiled with Vectorstyler too.

Vectorstyler and Designer are a great pair, suddenly you have two excellent programs that together form a gigantic and versatile toolbox. That's how I as a creative, results-oriented person look at it.

While Affinity Designer has only the simplest and very few tools for vector drawing, and we have no idea what might come, and when, there are a lot of designers like me who NEED to supplement Affinity with a competent vector program. And that's where Vectorstyler comes into its own. Affinity Designer will never catch up to Vector Styler feature-wise. Keep that in mind too.

So no fanboy here; I use both programs separately or together and I like both programs. I could not here and now do without either of them on my macOS machine.

Still, whether one likes or needs a program like Vectorstyler is one's own business, but one should try the alternatives out there, and the Vectorstyler development is worth participating in as well as monitoring:

VectorStyler Roadmap

www.vectorstyler.com

10 Reasons Why Strategic Plans Fail
Having a plan simply for plans sake - Not understanding the environment or focusing on results - Partial commitment - Not having the right people involved - Writing the plan and putting it on the shelf - Unwillingness or inability to change - Having the wrong people in leadership positions - No accountability or follow through - Unrealistic goals or lack of focus and resources.

Get it?

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20 minutes ago, Winsome said:

You speak of a distant past. Vectorstyler left the beta phase a very, very long time ago, and has been updated and improved incredibly and significantly over many updates since. And it continues like that. The improvements have mostly been based on customer feedback, and I've seen customers get their suggestions approved and implemented in days or weeks. So instead of walking away, I recommend joining that forum. There is listening, responding, reacting and implementing. The program has been significantly improved in 2022 alone. And since the program is developed so heavily on customer feedback, no strange or sadly simple tools have been implemented like in Affinity Designer - e.g. the contour tool. You really don't know what vector design CAN do until you've tried Vectortyler, Adobe Illustrator or Coreldraw and their many awesome features.

And then we just have the fact that Vectorstyler has almost every feature imaginable (And the rest on the roadmap), at least all the ones Affinity is missing and maybe 100 more (no kidding), and that the missing features on a roadmap that is public. I would guess that there are a lot of Affinity customers who can't afford not to try Vectorstyler, unless they want to pay for Adobe, Coreldrawor spend the rest of their lives on workarounds to do simple things. I don't get the impression from the typical Affinity customer that they have a big budget for software.

It's hilarious that people in here request features for years and hardly see a single one of these requests implemented by Serif (in recent years), while the same features exist in abundance in Vectorstyler or if features are requested, they end up visibly on a public roadmap. If not, the developer tells you directly; there is no uncertainty.

So, instead of the many blathering on in here over thousands of posts that don't make a single difference, I can recommend creatives to give Vectorstyler a try, there is a long trial, and even more recommend that you make your opinion known on Vectorstyler's forum, you can have an influence, e.g. you can get bugs fixed in a week. It's impossible to explain how liberating it is to get rid of software problems so incredibly fast. The license runs for a long time, so you're spoiled with Vectorstyler too.

Vectorstyler and Designer are a great pair, suddenly you have two excellent programs that together form a gigantic and versatile toolbox. That's how I as a creative, results-oriented person look at it.

While Affinity Designer has only the simplest and very few tools for vector drawing, and we have no idea what might come, and when, there are a lot of designers like me who NEED to supplement Affinity with a competent vector program. And that's where Vectorstyler comes into its own. Affinity Designer will never catch up to Vector Styler feature-wise. Keep that in mind too.

So no fanboy here; I use both programs separately or together and I like both programs. I could not here and now do without either of them on my macOS machine.

Still, whether one likes or needs a program like Vectorstyler is one's own business, but one should try the alternatives out there, and the Vectorstyler development is worth participating in as well as monitoring:

VectorStyler Roadmap

www.vectorstyler.com

I totally agree. The only thing I miss with Vectorstyler is a more refined user experience and interface but it will come. The guy behind it is a genius, it’s amazing how much work he’s been able to do on his own. And, like you said, he listens to customers and cares and works his ass off to consistently improve the app.  There’s a public roadmap etc… I have huge respect for Vectorstyler TBH.

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2 hours ago, Winsome said:

You speak of a distant past. Vectorstyler left the beta phase a very, very long time ago, and has been updated and improved incredibly and significantly over many updates since.

It'd be interesting to see how much the experience would change for me, since last time I tried it, last year

 

2 hours ago, Winsome said:

I recommend joining that forum. There is listening, responding, reacting and implementing. The program has been significantly improved in 2022 alone. And since the program is developed so heavily on customer feedback, no strange or sadly simple tools have been implemented like in Affinity Designer - e.g. the contour tool. 

I'd do so in case I am interested in the product itself. As of now, I'm having some time constraints but I'll see if I can try again, later.

 

2 hours ago, Winsome said:

You really don't know what vector design CAN do until you've tried Vectortyler, Adobe Illustrator or Coreldraw and their many awesome features.

But I know what I need. And, as of now, I think I'm covered on my profesional and personal requirements. But then again, I'm always in favor of the end Users. If something's good for you, totally go for it.

 

2 hours ago, Winsome said:

It's hilarious that people in here request features for years and hardly see a single one of these requests implemented by Serif (in recent years)

That's just part of the story, because you are not mentioning the features that are there and people have received and already enjoy. Yes, Designer has the less advanced "vector transformation Tools", but that's not all there is in a Design workflow.

 

2 hours ago, Winsome said:

Vectorstyler and Designer are a great pair, suddenly you have two excellent programs that together form a gigantic and versatile toolbox. That's how I as a creative, results-oriented person look at it.

This. Usually, professional worflows (in any area with Software-related tasks) requires Software from many companies. I've used a mix of Oracle, IBM and Google products for the last 3 years, as an example.

Best regards!

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36 minutes ago, Mithferion said:

That's just part of the story, because you are not mentioning the features that are there and people have received and already enjoy. Yes, Designer has the less advanced "vector transformation Tools", but that's not all there is in a Design workflow.

I know what you mean. I love what’s there otherwise I would not even bother to take part in the forums TBH. IMO Affinity nailed it with the UX and UI of their apps, I love using them ( it’s one of those apps you love using and that says a lot ) if was not a compromise feature-wise It would be incredible.

But I’m frustrated by the lack of development combined with misleading marketing that has not even been updated since launch. IMo would be extremely easy to listen to customers and implement at least a few features at least to keep people content, otherwise what’s the point in having a forum that’s all about user feedback. What I find sad is the fact that some people still have hope and ask for features.. it’s not hilarious it’s actually sad..

When we adopt a new software app we don’t just do it for whatever it does today we do it because we put trust in the future of that software. Mastering an app and building a reliable workflow around it takes time. Had I known what Affinity was really about I don’t think I would have bought it. I haven’t seen any progress been made in years. When I bought these apps I was able to try the basic functionality which I loved and trusted their marketing materials in terms of what the apps were capable of. I could not have imagined there was basic functionality missing.

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1 hour ago, Mithferion said:

It'd be interesting to see how much the experience would change for me, since last time I tried it, last year

Only one way to find out. 

"Anyway, I hope when this is implemented in Designer, it lives up to the expectations." (Quoting you)

When? If! On the Affinity front, people are waiting for the equivalent to the fabled year of desktop Linux. I've been listening to that dream on repeat since the turn of the millennium or more, and it's nowhere near happening, and similarly I've heard people dream in here about all the things that will come in Affinity when the miracle happens.

  • It has to be released to be real.
  • It needs to be more than elementary implementations and algorithms (think of the skinny discount contour tool again which you still have to make do with).
  • And it must be released before the Sun enters its Red Giant stage.   
Quote

That's just part of the story, because you are not mentioning the features that are there and people have received and already enjoy. Yes, Designer has the less advanced "vector transformation Tools", but that's not all there is in a Design workflow.

Yes, some features have been added along the way, incidentally from a simple version 1, so I don't see it as a sunshine story. It's never a winning argument to make a virtue out of necessity. But it was almost all bitmap features, while requests for non-basic vector features have gone unrewarded.

Vector or raster, you decide

Switch between full featured vector and raster workspaces with a single click

Vectorstyler, Illustrator and Coreldraw have a "full featured vector workspace" - Designer has a bit more than the bare minimum. Despite this pompous and misleading claim.

That's my point. It's simply not good enough anymore. So, no more talk, features please. And while waiting for the year of Affinity 2.0 or the Red Giant Stage, Vectorstyler is there. Or the bigger boys. Or a billion mouse clicks extra that no customer wants to pay for when you invoice your work.

10 Reasons Why Strategic Plans Fail
Having a plan simply for plans sake - Not understanding the environment or focusing on results - Partial commitment - Not having the right people involved - Writing the plan and putting it on the shelf - Unwillingness or inability to change - Having the wrong people in leadership positions - No accountability or follow through - Unrealistic goals or lack of focus and resources.

Get it?

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9 hours ago, Winsome said:

You speak of a distant past. Vectorstyler left the beta phase a very, very long time ago, and has been updated and improved incredibly and significantly over many updates since. And it continues like that.

I really tried to like Vectorstyler (I've been testing its latest versions for a while), but when working with it, it feels like I'm using a clunkier version of Illustrator. It's really unpleasant.

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12 hours ago, DGee said:

But I’m frustrated by the lack of development

More like "lack of development of features that we'd like to have". In which I'm part of, because there are some features and other things I'd like to be a reality.

 

12 hours ago, DGee said:

combined with misleading marketing that has not even been updated since launch

Yes, there are some expressions on their part that are not true or can mislead, as you say.

 

12 hours ago, DGee said:

IMo would be extremely easy to listen to customers and implement at least a few features at least to keep people content, otherwise what’s the point in having a forum that’s all about user feedback.

Depends on who you ask. There are users that are happy with what they have (or, at least, most of their needs are covered unlike others'). They could say that Serif listened to them faster than what you or I could say.

I'm not going to be the person that says that the features I need make my needs more improtant than others'.

 

12 hours ago, DGee said:

I haven’t seen any progress been made in years.

"Any progress in the areas I am most interested in". And I agree that years have passed and I see a lack of stuff and Tools.

 

12 hours ago, DGee said:

I could not have imagined there was basic functionality missing.

I'm going to insist that "widely used" is not the same as "basic". Zooming is a "basic" function, warping text is and "intermediate" one. Writing scripts would be "advanced", regardless of whether you used it one in a year or ebery hour.Yes, there are intermediate and widely used features missing that a lot of people need.

And just in case, I also feel what you feel. There are somethings that I simply wanted to point out: I don't represent all the customers and I can only speak for miself, about if Serif's development has been appropriate for me or not. For many, it's been good. For others, it's not.

Best regards!

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11 hours ago, Winsome said:

Only one way to find out. 

True.

 

11 hours ago, Winsome said:

When? If! On the Affinity front, people are waiting for the equivalent to the fabled year of desktop Linux.

I love Linux. That's a good analogy. And in the same way that many people have their entire Workflows built on a Linux system, many people find their needs covered by the current set of Tools. Others can't afford to get away from macOS or Windows. Same here.

 

11 hours ago, Winsome said:

 I've been listening to that dream

Depends on who you ask. Many people are living their dreams on Linux.

 

11 hours ago, Winsome said:

But it was almost all bitmap features, while requests for non-basic vector features have gone unrewarded.

This is true. I am on the side of people wanting more vector-oriented Tools. 

 

11 hours ago, Winsome said:

Vectorstyler, Illustrator and Coreldraw have a "full featured vector workspace" - Designer has a bit more than the bare minimum. Despite this pompous and misleading claim.

And even they can't claim that. Nothing is "fully developed" but true, they are way ahead of the curve (pun intended). That claim, yes, is misleading for those who have something specific in their minds. 

 

11 hours ago, Winsome said:

Vectorstyler is there

Which is great. I've already mentioned that there are professional workflows that require Software from different big companies like Oracle, IBM and Google. Some people want a "one stop shop", but sometimes that's not true.

I can say that while IBM DataStage is an excellent ETL tool, Alteryx wins in some departments and viceversa.

PowerBI, Tableau and Looker are tools to visualize data... and some use all three of them.

Sometimes you require both to get the Job done.

Use what you need to get the results your Job requires.

Best regards!

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6 hours ago, tudor said:

I really tried to like Vectorstyler (I've been testing its latest versions for a while), but when working with it, it feels like I'm using a clunkier version of Illustrator. It's really unpleasant.

I agree that There are some aspects of Vectorstyler that are clunky. I use VS daily and I can make a full list of tools and UI improvements I'd like to see. The difference is that the developer of Vectorstyler is constantly improving and updating the program. I can remember where it was at last year in terms of useability and tools and I'm amazed at how far is matured since that time. Compare that with the multiple years we've waited on serif to fix issues in developer like the Boolean operations, or to add basic tools like text warp. Hopefully the  upcoming 2.0 update will

The issue with the trackpad mouse will eventually get resolved. Not everyone is having the same issue with their trackpad mouse, so that's good news that it's not widespread, but bad news you're still having to deal with it. Where else do you find VS clunky? If it's just the trackpad issue, is that fair to judge VS for it when the issue is an isolated one?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Boldlinedesign said:

The issue with the trackpad mouse will eventually get resolved. Not everyone is having the same issue with their trackpad mouse, so that's good news that it's not widespread, but bad news you're still having to deal with it. Where else do you find VS clunky? If it's just the trackpad issue, is that fair to judge VS for it when the issue is an isolated one?

Setting my trackpad issues aside, once you fill an artboard with objects and graphics, Vectorstyler seems slower in general than Affinity Designer. The UI looks like a mix of Illustrator and CorelDraw. It can be quite overwhelming sometimes. Also I don't like how they copied some of the worst designed features from Illustrator like the Layers palette. The Layers studio in AD is more useful to me.

 

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1 hour ago, Twolane said:

Vectorstyler is a lone, single developer? What happens if he get ill or takes a years-long sabbatical, or decides he's bored/finished with it and moves on to something else? Like that's never happened before.

What if Serif never add the features you need or does … badly. That happened before. You are nervous about what-ifs in a situation where you have nothing? You are probably not Coca-Cola, you can afford this gamble. Life is like this. All the way. We have next to nothing on shelf 1 and a ton on shelf 2. Further, do you remember Freehand? Several Google products now retired?

And what if Serif goes the subscription way, like Adobe customers had to deal with from one moment to the other. There is no safety net.

Anyway this user nuanced and described the subject elegantly:

https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/116946-blend-tool/page/2/#comment-945176

10 Reasons Why Strategic Plans Fail
Having a plan simply for plans sake - Not understanding the environment or focusing on results - Partial commitment - Not having the right people involved - Writing the plan and putting it on the shelf - Unwillingness or inability to change - Having the wrong people in leadership positions - No accountability or follow through - Unrealistic goals or lack of focus and resources.

Get it?

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19 minutes ago, Winsome said:

You are nervous about what-ifs in a situation where you have nothing?

I'm not nervous about anything. I got my money's worth out of the Affininity Trinity (acquired at 25 bucks per) probably after about a month later. Or maybe three months. Whatev. It took a little longer for Publisher to sink in to my fatigued brain, but even that software is a no-brainer now. I was getting along before I met Affinity, and I'll get along after. What's the big deal? If you don't like a product, or aren't willing to pay up (as with Adobe's subscription model) move along and try to use something else. There is plenty out there.

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1 hour ago, tudor said:

Setting my trackpad issues aside, once you fill an artboard with objects and graphics, Vectorstyler seems slower in general than Affinity Designer. The UI looks like a mix of Illustrator and CorelDraw. It can be quite overwhelming sometimes. Also I don't like how they copied some of the worst designed features from Illustrator like the Layers palette. The Layers studio in AD is more useful to me.

 

I agree that Vectorstyler slows down and gets a little quirky when the artboard is filled with objects and graphics. This is something I've mentioned in the VS forum and should probably address again. There is a lot of Illustrator and Corel influence in the UI - as a longtime Illustrator user, it was not a negative to me, but I can understand the overwhelming feeling. Hopefully the ability to set customized panel arrangements and the ability to shrink panels down to icons will help reduce the clutter feel 
What parts of the Affinity layers studio are you missing in VS? I've compared the VS layer panel to the AD equivalent and they seem very similar - more so than they relate to Illustrator. 
These are all things that would be helpful to post on the VS forum. As others have mentioned in this thread and others, VS has improved drastically in 2022 alone, much less the last few years. Improvements happen at a record pace. Right now the developer is gearing up for a large update at the end of this month or in early September that should address a number of things with the UI. 

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2 hours ago, Twolane said:

Vectorstyler is a lone, single developer? What happens if he get ill or takes a years-long sabbatical, or decides he's bored/finished with it and moves on to something else? Like that's never happened before.

There are risks to using any program. I learned Freehand and then had no choice really but to learn Illustrator when Adobe bought out Macromedia. I used Illustrator for many years until the writing was on the wall that Adobe was going the way of subscription - which led me to Affinity. Affinity is great aside from its severe lack of features and professional tools, which led me to supplementing it with Vectorstyler. As Vectorstyler has matured over the last couple years, I ended up making it my primary vector editing program and now use Designer occasionally. Vectorstyler, for all it offers beyond Affinity, still lacks 10% or so of what I need for my professional work and so an old copy of CS6 suffices for those times... It's our job to adapt and find the best solution. If Affinity or VS fall out favor I'm sure another option will present itself - the market always finds a way

As others have mentioned, I'm more concerned that Affinity has not added standard professional tools into Designer in the many years since they released their programs than I am about the VS developer taking a break or quitting his role in developing VS. The existing number of features in VS far outweigh the options in Affinity

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