How do I cancel level adjustments

[thomaso]

1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

This includes buttons for displaying the status before / after adjustment/live filter/fx - this would be very useful. Today, the effect of a "new" setup cannot be checked at all - there is no way to see the status before it is made.

1 hour ago, Pšenda said:

Adjustments, like Filters, should only be "displayed" and only applied to the document after pressing OK / Apply.

@Pšenda, these two thoughts sound conflicting / contradictory.* Whereas the first wants a live view (preview), the second seems to say a preview should not happen but a setting should become visible only after closing the window.

I guess the second isn't meant as it seems to be, but rather would say "Adjustments, like Filters, should be "displayed" (live previewed) and thus before the window gets closed (~ after pressing OK / Apply).

EDIT:  *Additionally your first quote seems to be wrong in my experience: In fact I do see a preview for adjustments, for Live Filters and for non-live, destructive filters. While the destructive filters do have a "Cancel" button, adjustments and live filters require the Undo command instead.

I'd say the goal of this thread is that…
1. all three types (adj. + 2x filter) offer a Cancel button.
2. none of them would require the Undo command.
3. all of them show a Live Preview (as currently).
4. all can be closed with a Close button + thus do apply the current setting (as currently), unless "Cancel" gets pressed.

Edited June 29, 2022 by thomaso

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

I'd say the goal of this thread is that…
1. all three types (adj. + 2x filter) offer a Cancel button.
2. none of them would require the Undo command.
3. all of them show a Live Preview (as currently).
4. all can be closed with a Close button + thus do apply the current setting (as currently), unless "Cancel" gets pressed.

As I understand it, the goal is to be able to undo the last made change to the adjustment to revert to the previous adjustment state, which a "Cancel" button would not do.

[Mr. K]

3 hours ago, R C-R said:

Neither would a "Cancel" button do what the OP wanted, which is to 'undo' a change already made to the adjustment layer. 

Actually, a Cancel or Revert button IS what I want. I do want to see the adjustment layer changes live and then decide if I want to keep them or not.

[GarryP]

I really don’t understand why:
1. anyone would want to go from the understandable Reset/Delete to the vague OK/Cancel;
2. there seems to be confusion about why there is a close icon in that window;
3. there seems to be confusion between modal/non-modal functionality;
4. there seems to be some confusion between ‘live’ and destructive functions.
...so I’m just going to sit this one out unless I see something interesting.

[thomaso]

12 hours ago, R C-R said:

to be able to undo the last made change to the adjustment to revert to the previous adjustment state, which a "Cancel" button would not do.

No. Instead this is the common use of a Cancel button. – EDIT: to be precise, a "Revert" button would do this + keep the window opened.

4 hours ago, GarryP said:

I really don’t understand why:
1. anyone would want to go from the understandable Reset/Delete to the vague OK/Cancel;

No. It is not either Reset/Delete or OK/Cancel, but Reset + Delete + Cancel + Close/Apply/OK

1. Reset: resets all settings to the initial apps default (e.g. all values to 0).
2. Delete: delete the entire object from the layers panel.
3. Cancel: interrupts current changes from getting applied + closes the window with its last state before opening it.
4. Close/Apply/OK: Does close the window with the current setting.

4 hours ago, GarryP said:

2. there seems to be confusion about why there is a close icon in that window;

Both icon or button do close the window. But with different results.

There is confusion why the UI is inconsistent and uses …
a.)  in some windows 1 close button (adjustment: icon),
b.)  in some 3 close buttons (destructive filters: icon + cancel + apply),
c.)  in some is no close icon or button (live filters).

whereas the Close icon closes the window …
d.)  sometimes with its current setting (adjustments),
e.)  sometimes with its previous state (destructive filters) (= no apply)
f.)  while for adjustments there is no must for the user to actively close the window because it will get closed by the app automatically when the user continues with a different task.

4 hours ago, GarryP said:

3. there seems to be confusion between modal/non-modal functionality;
4. there seems to be some confusion between ‘live’ and destructive functions.

No confusion about functions but about UI inconsistency. I don't see a reason / need for the currently existing differences in the UI of Adjustments & Live Filters versus destructive Filters. Regardless of modal / non-modal they could work the same ways concerning "close" respectively "cancel", additionally the two different functions of the close icon make it unnecessarily more complex. But the Close icons & buttons aren't the real topic or issue here, they just came up in the discussion about the entire workflow with the 3 window types and their UI differences.

Back to this topic I don't see a reason why Adjustments & Live Filters don't have a Cancel button to enable the user to go back to the state when the window was opened – but require / prefer the need of using the Undo command instead. So, for instance, why not like this:

EDIT: ... respectively a "Revert" button instead "Cancel" (to keep the window opened).

 

============
EDIT: By the way, there was another discussion about this "Cancel adjustment" question 2 years ago (partly with other aspects):

[walt.farrell]

If we had Cancel, I would expect it to undo any changes, and close the dialog. But I don't think that's what I would want, personally.

I would prefer something more like a Revert button, which would undo any changes I've made since the dialog was last opened, but leave it open for further work. I can then close the dialog if I've really decided the original adjustment was better. But usually, if I've been playing with adjustment settings, I'd want to throw away my current changes, keeping the original setup, and keep playing.

With Cancel, that would mean having to reopen the dialog to keep playing around.

Also, to me, "Cancel" does not have the semantic of "throw away any changes I've just made". I'm not sure exactly what it would mean. Revert has a better semantic meaning, to me.

[thomaso]

5 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

If we had Cancel, I would expect it to undo any changes, and close the dialog. But I don't think that's what I would want, personally.

I would prefer something more like a Revert button,

Ah, good point, thanks. It is also like the OP mentioned in the last post:

10 hours ago, Mr. K said:

Actually, a Cancel or Revert button IS what I want.

Sorry for ignoring "Revert" before. Of course it would be useful to cancel + keep the window opened for further edits.

[R C-R]

In this context, what would be the functional differences for an Undo, Revert, & Cancel button?

If Undo or Revert keeps the window open for more edits & there is an "Apply" button to accept whatever edits are made to that adjustment, would that mean that tapping the Undo or Revert button repeatedly steps backwards through however many edits have been made to that adjustment since it was first applied? If so, wouldn't that mean each of those changes would need to be stored in the file somehow? 

[Old Bruce]

4 minutes ago, R C-R said:

If Undo or Revert ... If so, wouldn't that mean each of those changes would need to be stored in the file somehow? 

It would mean that we would need to have a History list for each Adjustment, Live Filter and possibly for each effect in each FX layer. 

[R C-R]

Just now, Old Bruce said:

It would mean that we would need to have a History list for each Adjustment, Live Filter and possibly for each effect in each FX layer. 

I think you are right about that. I wonder if this should be part of the 'save history with document' option or not; & if not, considering there could be dozens of adjustments, live filters, & FX items in a file; how much of an impact it would have on the file size.

[thomaso]

6 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

18 minutes ago, R C-R said:

If Undo or Revert ... If so, wouldn't that mean each of those changes would need to be stored in the file somehow? 

It would mean that we would need to have a History list for each Adjustment, Live Filter and possibly for each effect in each FX layer. 

As mentioned in the 2nd post of this thread Undo currently jumps back to the moment before the window was opened. So Revert could do the same. A Revert button could just add easier access to Undo in these windows.

For those who think it would not be useful or too much development work: Currently the destructive filter window offers two UI spots to revert + close with 1 click: the Close icon and the Cancel button, although both UI items do the same: quit the procedure by revert + close. – While "Cancel" in this situation does not cancel all of the steps which were started by choosing a filter command: if the Affinity Assistant automatically converted a selected layer to pixels to display a preview of the filter then Cancel does not go fully back but requires an additional Undo. Bit weird mixture of duplicated UI options for Undo on hand but limited function of Cancel on the other, isn't it?

However, for the revert UI in adjustment  windows it is an option but not a need to discuss how Undo currently works, I'd rather say Undo is a separate thread because Undo, respectively the History Panel, work context related, different in various situations concerning its single steps respectively its branch options.

[R C-R]

4 minutes ago, thomaso said:

As mentioned in the 2nd post of this thread Undo currently jumps back to the moment before the window was opened. So Revert could do the same. A Revert button could just add easier access to Undo in these windows.

So basically are you saying the Revert button would be functionally the same as an Undo button or the undo item on the Edit menu or its keyboard shortcut?

14 minutes ago, thomaso said:

Currently the destructive filter window offers two UI spots to revert + close with 1 click: the Close icon and the Cancel button, although both UI items do the same: quit the procedure by revert + close. – While "Cancel" in this situation does not cancel all of the steps which were started by choosing a filter command:...

??? What steps are not canceled if in a destructive filter window the "Cancel" button is clicked?

[thomaso]

3 minutes ago, R C-R said:

So basically are you saying the Revert button would be functionally the same as an Undo

To keep it simple: Yes.

5 minutes ago, R C-R said:

??? What steps are not canceled if in a destructive filter window the "Cancel" button is clicked?

As described above the Assistant's rasterize action … or in this earlier post with screenshots.

[R C-R]

11 minutes ago, thomaso said:

As described above the Assistant's rasterize action … or in this earlier post with screenshots.

I must be misunderstanding something about that because I cannot apply a destructive filter to an object that is not already a raster object, & there is no Cancel button for Adjustment layers.

[Old Bruce]

4 minutes ago, R C-R said:

I must be misunderstanding something about that because I cannot apply a destructive filter to an object that is not already a raster object, & there is no Cancel button for Adjustment layers.

Check your Assistant settings, mine is set to rasterize vector layers then apply the filter.

[Hangman]

On 6/29/2022 at 3:33 AM, Mr. K said:

I make some changes in the level adjustment but I don't like the changes so how do I cancel the changes or revert to the last saved?

Not a solution, more a far from ideal workaround but you could use Snapshots, though agree it would be nice to have a proper revert to the last saved change option.

[R C-R]

26 minutes ago, Hangman said:

Not a solution, more a far from ideal workaround but you could use Snapshots, though agree it would be nice to have a proper revert to the last saved change option.

How does that differ from using the Undo command, other than there is not a button for that in the Adjustment window?

[thomaso]

2 minutes ago, R C-R said:

How does that differ from using the Undo command, other than there is not a button for that in the Adjustment window?

The function is the same but the use is different. Since in these windows we prefer to use sliders (= mouse) (e.g. because tabs for purely numerical workflow are too unreliable in Affinity) it makes a lot sense to have a Revert button as well with the Delete and Reset buttons.

[R C-R]

2 minutes ago, thomaso said:

The function is the same but the use is different.

I do not understand what you mean by that. If the function is the same how can the use be different, other than how you invoke it to get the same results?

[Hangman]

12 minutes ago, R C-R said:

How does that differ from using the Undo command, other than there is not a button for that in the Adjustment window?

I think maybe I misunderstood what @Mr. K was wanting... but let's say you make a Levels adjustment Black Level 10%, White Level 90% and you then decide you're not sure that is quite right so you further adjust the Levels to Black Level 20%, White Level 80%. If you then decide you actually preferred the first adjustment, i.e., Black Level 10%, White Level 90% Undo will reset the levels to Black Level 0%, White Level 100% (the default settings) so your only option is to manually adjust the Black and White levels again to your initial settings.

What would be nice is if you could Revert back to your first settings rather than the default settings, i.e., Undo once and it changes from Black Level 20%, White Level 80% back to Black Level 10%, White Level 90%, Undo a second time and it changes to Black Level 0%, White Level 100%.

This was my logic around using Snapshots but I now realise that wasn't really what was being requested.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

I think maybe I misunderstood what @Mr. K was wanting... but let's say you make a Levels adjustment Black Level 10%, White Level 90% and you then decide you're not sure that is quite right so you further adjust the Levels to Black Level 20%, White Level 80%. If you then decide you actually preferred the first adjustment, i.e., Black Level 10%, White Level 90% Undo will reset the levels to Black Level 0%, White Level 100% (the default settings) so your only option is to manually adjust the Black and White levels again to your initial settings.

Suppose you already have an adjustment, and you close its dialog. At that point (the closing of the dialog) the settings are applied and recorded in the History. You then reopen it, and make further changes. That is the scenario being discussed here, I think.

At that point, after you've reopened the dialog and played with it, Undo (Edit > Undo, or Ctrl/Cmd+Z) will restore the settings to the value they had when you reopened the dialog. They will not go back to the default values.

So it seems like Undo does exactly what is wanted, but the request is for a button, instead.

[R C-R]

1 hour ago, Hangman said:

What would be nice is if you could Revert back to your first settings rather than the default settings, i.e., Undo once and it changes from Black Level 20%, White Level 80% back to Black Level 10%, White Level 90%, Undo a second time and it changes to Black Level 0%, White Level 100%.

If there were 3 or more setting changes while the window was open, would you want the Undo/Revert to step backwards through each of them before eventually getting back to the default? What about stepping back & forth among all of them like a redo/undo function, but confined to while the window remains open?

[Ron P.]

From what I've found, using CMD/CTL + Z or the Undo in the Menu, does nothing different than pressing the Reset button.

Of the editing apps I have, Affinity Photo, Corel PSP, and Corel PhotoPaint, the latter is the only one having a Cancel button. Pressing Cancel, however deletes the adjustment. I agree with RC-R. How incremental would the step-back/forward need to be.

Using the Levels Adjustment as an example, would the step-back be for just the Master Channel, or would it be for each Color Channel? How about each of the Color Models, RGB, CMYK, LAB?

When we have the Merge, Delete, Reset and clicking on the X in windows or whichever color button on Macs, accepts the changes, adding a Cancel button to just revert to prior state is way to complicated, and unnecessary, when we already have actions that essentially do just that. Perhaps it requires one or two more clicks, but come on, are we getting that lazy nowadays.. 🤔

Further to the above, we can add multiple of the same type adjustment layers. We can choose to just add a new adjustment layer, we can duplicate one that we've made changes, then change that one. Hiding/Showing each separate adjustment layer (think the before/after used so much in tutorials) to revert to a previous state.

I hope we don't continue a descent towards more and more AI, which tends to remove or prohibit our personal creative ability. Like AI? How about Singularity?

[Hangman]

10 hours ago, R C-R said:

If there were 3 or more setting changes while the window was open, would you want the Undo/Revert to step backwards through each of them before eventually getting back to the default? What about stepping back & forth among all of them like a redo/undo function, but confined to while the window remains open?

If you have Save History with Document selected you can already do this, so in many ways I 'think' that answers @Mr. K's original question, if I've understood what he's wanting to achieve, as in, my reading of the original question was being able to revert to previous settings between saving the file, closing the document and reopening the document but maybe I've misundersood this.

If you don't have Save History with Document selected then as @Ron P. say's saving, closing and reopening the document doesn't give you this option as you are limited to the reset button which takes you back to the default settings rather than any intermediary settings you may have made to the Levels settings between opening and closing the document.

[GarryP]

Just temporarily popping my head over the parapet to lob a suggestion onto the battlefield…

This sounds like it could turn into some kind of ‘undo Gordian Knot’ (what gets undone and when?), and I think Presets would be ‘overkill’ for what is required, so might I suggest a compromise?

The compromise, inspired by pocket calculators, it that we have two extra buttons in the Adjustment Panel, one called “Remember”, one called “Recall” (equivalent to the “MS” and “MR” buttons on said calculators).

When the user wants to do some experimenting with the settings for an adjustment they press the “Remember” button to ‘save the settings to memory’ and then do the experimenting. If they want to put the settings back to what they were they press the “Recall” button to ‘restore the settings from memory’.

There would only be one ‘memory’ for each adjustment type and this ‘memory’ would simply be an easy way to store/recall all of the settings for a particular adjustment type at any one time. There would be no way to keep multiple ‘memories’.

Each adjustment type would have its own ‘memory’ and that ‘memory’ would persist only while the application is running.

Thinks of it as similar to a post-it note: write the note; maybe use the note; if you need a new note put the last one in the bin and write a new note.

This would also mean that it would be easy to copy adjustment settings between adjustment layers: change the settings on one adjustment layer; press “Remember”; switch to another adjustment layer of the same type; press “Recall”.

The undo functionality would not need to change in any way – this proposed functionality would be entirely separate from undo – and the existing Reset/Delete functionality would be untouched and work exactly as it does now. Everything is exactly as it is now except there would be a simple way to remember/recall adjustment settings on an ad-hoc basis.

Would this be a reasonable compromise which would fit most (but probably not all) requirements?