Jump to content

Recommended Posts

When is isolation mode going to be implemented?

 

Selecting stuff on the layer panes is a waste of time.

YES! 

this a thousand times.

 

It's already kinda implemented, if you double click inside a group, all it should do, is to lock all the other layers. Pretty simple i think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Hivoltage - nice try - but it doesn't work this way. I can't select a group by a simple click on it - i always get a single part of it. If i lock all layers in the group, the group cannot selected anymore. Selecting via Layermenu is timesucking. 

There muss be an other way? :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Hivoltage - nice try - but it doesn't work this way. I can't select a group by a simple click on it - i always get a single part of it. If i lock all layers in the group, the group cannot selected anymore. Selecting via Layermenu is timesucking. 

There muss be an other way? :wacko:

 

Sorry, i meant that they SHOULD implement it that way, not that it's like that now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also as i test it more, i realize it's almost impossible to work with Symbols without this feature.

 

I made a Symbol of a header for a webpage cause i want it to reflect changes on all the pages.

Now, editing inside a symbol, or a group is a pain in the ass. I cannot use the marquee selection for example, if i want to add or copy paste things inside the symbol its HELL.

And offcourse you cant just ungroup the symbol to work easier, cause it will lose it's Sync....

 

If you just use it for buttons or very simple things, it can work, but as soon as you have quite a few objects...

 

I think this should a be priority feature, cause it affects every single move and decision in the workflow.  :ph34r: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi fischwerk,

Welcome to Affinity Forums :)

Currently the only way to isolate an object/layer is to holding down ⌥ (option/alt) while clicking on the object's layer in the Layers panel.

 

I didn't know this.

What is this good for? The group stays grouped, and if i click outside, it cancels the isolation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isolation mode is very important. Layers and cmd-shift-click are poor substitutes, and frankly, the lack of isolation mode makes it difficult for me to take Affinity Designer seriously. Several design programs (Freehand, Canvas, IntelliDraw, and others) have had this since the '90s.

 

Here's how it should work:

 

1. Double-click the group to enter isolation on its objects. All other objects on the page should be redrawn with their opacity multiplied by 50%, and the corresponding rows for those objects in the Layers panel should also be drawn at 50% opacity, to indicate that those objects are not editable in the current isolation mode.

2. Select, edit, delete the objects in the isolated group, or draw new objects, which will immediately become part of the isolated group.

3. Double-click a nested group to isolate its objects.

4. Double-click outside the objects of the currently isolated group to exit ("go back") one level of isolation. After isolating a nested group, going back once should bring you back to isolating the parent group. If there is no parent group, then you exit isolation mode completely and return to editing the entire document.

 

This should be straightforward to implement with a stack of isolation mode contexts, each indicating an isolated group, in progressive order of nesting. Selection tools will need to check for membership in the current isolated group (last context added to the isolation stack). Other tools will need to create new objects within the current isolated group. The renderer will need to draw objects outside the isolated group with multiplicative 50% opacity.

 

It's important to note that isolation mode should have no effect on the layer or object metadata that gets saved on the document. It should not actually lock or unlock other layers or objects, nor change their actual opacity. It is merely an edit mode that isolates operations to the objects of the isolated group.

 

Several of the features added in 1.5 are superfluous compared to isolation mode as described here. Isolation mode should now become a top priority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isolation mode should also work on symbols. In other words, symbols should be treated as groups for the purposes of isolation mode. This fits well with how symbols are shown as similar to groups in the Layers panel.

 

 

(EDIT: I just noticed that symbols behave as groups only if the symbol is created from an actual group. I also noticed that when selecting multiple ungrouped objects, then clicking Create from the Symbols panel, it will create a separate symbol for each object, instead of one grouped symbol. This seems like a bug, at least unexpected behavior compared to how symbols work in other popular drawing programs.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel a dose of reality is warranted here.

  • Freehand never had an isolation mode like the one in Illustrator. It was possible to convert groups of objects to symbols, and edit a symbol in a new window. Not comparable to Illustrator's isolation mode - similar to Flash and Photoshop's smart objects, though. But quite useless for editing within context.
     
  • Freehand's layer palette is terrible. Other organization tools in Freehand are antiquated. The way many tools work in Freehand  - frustrating. The GUI slow and cumbersome to work with in comparison with modern software. Let's avoid the "olden times were the best" syndrome. Freehand is a relic - granted, some nicely implemented base tools, but for the rest - blah.
     
  • Frankly, I dislike Illustrator's isolation mode. Inadvertently double-clicking any group, and BAM! the rest of the design is faded out. This happened to me when working under the pressure of a deadlines all the time. Personally, I turned it off in the preferences. But then again, I really did not like working in Illustrator in the first place, and prefer other tools now. As mentioned, the layer panel is a mess. The workflow laggy and slow - unless expanded with plugins.
     
  • IF the Affinity Designer developers ever decide to add an isolation mode like the one in Illustrator, PLEASE make sure it can be turned off. Not all of us are enamoured by Illustrator's implementation of this mode. I very much dislike the rest of my design faded out.
     
  • In one of the vector/bitmap applications I use, working with groups is quite elegantly solved: two selection modes are available, and one of these allows for entering groups with two clicks. Selections occur within the group itself - dragging a selection marquee will only select the objects in the active group. And no need to fade out the rest of the design.

    Exiting a group in that application merely consists of a single click outside the group. It will then select the next parent level. No need for pointless double-clicks.

    Nor do I see any reason to fade out the rest of the design when editing a symbol. I'd like to see the actual effect and overall colour changes when editing symbols. If the need exists to focus on the contents of a symbol without being distracted by the design it is used in, opening the symbol in its own window works better anyway. And for complex designs it will provide a definite speed boost as well.
     
  • Simple commands to enter and exit a group work just as well in my opinion.
     
  • The same application I mentioned above allows for a smart object type workflow as well. Aside from symbols, I think smart objects would be far more useful to organize complex work with compared to an isolation mode.
     
  • I do completely agree that Affinity Designer's current selection tools must be expanded, and allow us to work within groups only. I do not think Illustrator's isolation mode is the best approach. I believe Illustrator's isolation mode was conceived to deal with live paint mode in the first place? Let's not make the same mistakes Illustrator made. Isolation mode is a patch to deal with Illustator's less-then-ideal workflow and layers.
     
  • The existing selection tools can be expanded easily with a group work mode. And add shortcut keys to enter and exit groups quickly with the keyboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Herbert123 It appears that multiple designers in this thread conside isolation mode not only useful but essential. That's "a dose of reality" for you.

 

Why are you double-clicking objects in Illustrator (or Affinity Designer) if you don't intend to enter isolation mode? What are you thinking should happen when you double-click?

 

How is "entering groups with two clicks" different from double-clicking?

 

When you try to single click an object inside a group but accidentally click outside it, then you exit isolation mode? With accidental stray clicks being a fairly common occurrence, how is single-click-to-exit better than double-click-to-exit?

 

How can you drag to select a region of objects inside a group when single-clicking outside the group causes the exit of isolation mode?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Herbert123 It appears that multiple designers in this thread conside isolation mode not only useful but essential. That's "a dose of reality" for you.

 

I understand that. I am providing an alternative viewpoint that not all designers are in love with Illustrator's isolation mode. I am not the only one - visit Adobe forums, and a quick search will result in questions from users how they can turn off isolation mode.

 

And I am not inherently opposed to an isolation mode - merely the way it is implemented in Illustrator. I do like opening a symbol or smart object in its own window when working on complex art and layouts. Having the rest of your design faded out - no, thank you.

 

 

Why are you double-clicking objects in Illustrator (or Affinity Designer) if you don't intend to enter isolation mode? What are you thinking should happen when you double-click?

 

Various reasons. Under pressure from a deadline, and complex artwork tends to become laggy to work with. A secondary click may be interpreted as a double-click under circumstances. Besides, double-clicking is 1) frustrating when the user works with a Wacom, and 2) to be avoided in relation to repetitive strain injury. Third, if alternative methods exist, we ought to explore those as well, and see if we may improve on the Illustrator working methods.

 

 

How is "entering groups with two clicks" different from double-clicking?

 

When you try to single click an object inside a group but accidentally click outside it, then you exit isolation mode? With accidental stray clicks being a fairly common occurrence, how is single-click-to-exit better than double-click-to-exit?

 

Ah, my mistake. It was late when I wrote that line. I meant that in that other application I can either hold down a modifier key or switch selection mode, and a single-click selects any object in a group or sub-group. No need for double-clicking at all to work with groups and sub-groups.

 

Also, in that other application I can easily select objects 10 levels deep with one click. Then select another object in another group anywhere in the canvas with one click. Selecting is dependent on a mode switch - which means I can drag a selection marquee around objects within the active group that I am working in without accidentally selecting other objects or groups.

 

...

The reason for my counter posting is really only to start up a discussion to explore alternative workflows to solve these workflow issues in Affinity Designer. I and others do NOT like the isolation mode as it is currently implemented in Illustrator. Double-clicking as a common GUI action has its drawbacks as well.

 

So, let's explore various options, I say. Let's not be bound by what is standard in Illustrator, and perhaps we can discover a method of selecting, and working with, objects in groups that is an improvement over what Illustrator offers - because I feel Illustrator's workflow is a pain in the neck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Herbert123 Thanks for the detailed response and explanation.

 

I do like opening a symbol or smart object in its own window when working on complex art and layouts. Having the rest of your design faded out - no, thank you.

 

I think that both modes are useful. In web and UI design, it is often important to see the surrounding design context when working in isolation on a particular group, so I greatly prefer "in-place" isolation mode as I described it above, editing in the same window with other objects grayed-out but still visible. I can also see the use case to edit nested objects (of a group, symbol, or embedded/smart object) in a separate window.

 

I think that both modes should be available via contextual menu. However, I use in-place isolation mode very often, and from an HCI perspective, double-click is the fastest way to go from locating an object with the pointer and entering isolation mode. Adding a keystroke or contextual menu drag only makes the action more complicated and frustrating for users who do it all the time.

 

But I understand that some users such as yourself don't appreciate having isolation mode bound to double-click, so that should be configurable via Preferences (either a simple checkbox to enable control isolation mode via double-click, or a selector to choose whether double-click controls isolation mode, some other action, or nothing at all).

 

I meant that in that other application I can either hold down a modifier key or switch selection mode, and a single-click selects any object in a group or sub-group. No need for double-clicking at all to work with groups and sub-groups.

 

Also, in that other application I can easily select objects 10 levels deep with one click. Then select another object in another group anywhere in the canvas with one click. Selecting is dependent on a mode switch - which means I can drag a selection marquee around objects within the active group that I am working in without accidentally selecting other objects or groups.

 

That's also a cool feature, but it's very different (and to me, less useful) from the isolation mode requested in this thread. For those of us who use isolation mode often, it's important to manage a hierarchy of nested groups one level at a time. For example, I can group a few objects into a cell, and then group a few cells into a row, and then group a few rows into a table, and group a few buttons outside the table into another row, and group that row with the other table, and group that relative to some other page elements, and so on. And then I can use double-click to traverse in and out of this hierarchy, keeping sub-groups grouped and nudging or resizing their contents together. Your proposal for a way to reach deep into a hierarchy to select individual objects may also be useful at times, but I rely on the ability to manage subgroups and maintain the relative size and position of their contents, so resizing or repositioning individual objects at the bottom of the hierarchy is a much less common use case for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@svicalifornia: Thanks for the clear explanation: the table grouping example is a good one. I am not against an isolation mode - I just do not like the way it is implemented in Illustrator. If the shortcut key could be modified (with an option to use a modifier key + single click), and the screen darken effect could be turned off as well, I would certainly welcome such an isolation mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Affinity, could we get a real answer on the status of this?

 

I've never heard about a roadmap including this feature...  :huh:

This is the official one ad it does not include an isolation mode like Adobe.

 

It is possible currently to access a basic isolation mode with ALT+click on the layer of your selection.


The white dog, making tools for artists, illustrators and doodlers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is possible currently to access a basic isolation mode with ALT+click on the layer of your selection.

 

Yes, but the point of groups is precisely not having to deal with the layers pane which is a waste of time.

 

Why spend a few seconds looking for a layer in a long list when you can just double click on the group that is right in front of you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but the point of groups is precisely not having to deal with the layers pane which is a waste of time.

 

Why spend a few seconds looking for a layer in a long list when you can just double click on the group that is right in front of you?

 

As I wrote before I do not consider Isolation Mode a true improvement but something that was imposed to our workflows by Ai since there it is the only way to deal with complex stuff.

Since I switched to Sketch for UI projects I never missed it.

 

In any case the more options the better, so I will appreciate such an update in the future.

 

About the long list, today there is no more need to scroll: the layer can be selected and brought to top on Layers Panel automatically once you select on canvas. Yes, Isolation Mode is is still one click far but ux now is a bit better...  :)


The white dog, making tools for artists, illustrators and doodlers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solo/isolation mode is an important feature, great it has been implemented!!

However, a keyboard shortcut in addition to ALT-clicking the object in the layers would add to convenience/workflow speed.

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello! I'd like to cast one hundred trillion votes for isolation mode please!

 

Let me clarify: as it stands now, AD has no isolation mode. Hiding other layers is not what isolation mode is, that's just "hide others".

 

From the user's perspective, isolation mode is a divide et impera approach to editing complex artwork. The essence of isolation mode as the user expects it to be (not just how it is in Illustrator, many other programs have variations on this, Blender being one) is that the user's actions all work as before, but only apply to isolated objects. In particular that necessarily includes marquee selections, the most often used tool! Hiding other objects is OK but not necessary; Blender does this, Illustrator has the white-out which is an elegant solution in my opinion. Note that I might actually need to see other objects, for example to have them as snapping guides!

 

Please implement this guys, AD deserves to be perfect.


Disclaimer: I like AD and respect its creators. I only criticize it because I want to make it better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could live with the current isolation solution a little better if I didn't drop out of isolation so easily.

 

I'd like to see a toggle solution... option click the layer to isolate - option click it again to de-isolate it. (ideally I'd love to see a keyboard short for all this but until that happens...) 

 

As it is now when in isolation, one stray click off of the path and blam you're out of isolation mode... it's happens so many times it renders the current isolate solution kind of unusable for me.

 

Also I think the isolation mode should work with grouped layers as well. Option click on a group layer and it's isolated. Option click again and it's not. Doesn't really need to be more complicated than that, does it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×