How can I "Send To Back" but not behind the master & re-attach detached masters?

[ZebraJamie]

Hi all! I've checked a few other threads about weird things with master pages, but I haven't seen a solution or even the problem I'm encountering, so hopefully I'm not repeating, but here goes:

I'm working with Affinity Publisher on a desktop, windows 10 computer. I have my document set up with master-pages that have full bleed backgrounds (think of setting up parchment texture background for a fantasy art book). Then, when I'm working on the pages of the document, and I want to add an illustration, I drag and drop the image from the folder into the document and drop it in. It's naturally on top of everything else, but let's say I want to push it behind all the other text and images I have. The way my brain and workflow works, instead of doing "move back one" several dozen times or trying to shuffle layers in the Layers window (because I usually have tons of text boxes, lines, objects and other images), I just say "send to back" to put it behind all the other stuff.

But when I do that, it goes BEHIND the master page! When it's behind the master page layer, I can't click on it to select it--I have to click-drag to select the entire area where it used to be visible. I can bring it back by doing a "move forward one," but it's really annoying do to over and over. Also, it seems to activate the detached master option frequently, which is really annoying. Reapplying the master can reset the background if I've accidentally moved or scaled it, but it's still "detached."

(Maybe I'm stuck in my InDesign ways, but isn't the point of a Master Page to have a locked background? The way Masters seem to work in Affinity Publisher now, it's like a building contractor saying "that bathtub should go all the way down" and the plumber putting it under the foundation. 😅)

I have two main questions:

1 - Is there a way to lock the master page to the background so that layers/objects on the working pages can't end up behind it?

2 - Is there a way to re-attach detached masters once they've been activated? or turn off the feature? (I don't need it at all in my work flow.)

[thomaso]

Hi @ZebraJamie,
welcome to the Affinity Forums!

Unfortunately there is no way to generally lock any layer in the Layers Panel hierarchy to a certain position.

For Master layers there is only a slightly related feature which allows to move all instances of a selected master layer on all pages to the bottom or via the "Move to back" button. Therefore you need to choose the option "Edit Linked" before moving a selected master layer on a document page. Either in the right-click menu or in the main menu "Layer" –> …

It appears you miss "Global Layers" which allow a certain hierarchical layer order across an entire .afpub. Unfortunately this feature doesn't exist yet but possibly seems to be considered. If you like post your vote or comment in one of the existing feature requests, for instance at the end of this long thread:

[carl123]

18 hours ago, ZebraJamie said:

But when I do that, it goes BEHIND the master page! When it's behind the master page layer, I can't click on it to select it

I can, on the canvas and in the Layers panel, not sure why you can't do that?

(Windows 11)

18 hours ago, ZebraJamie said:

2 - Is there a way to re-attach detached masters once they've been activated? or turn off the feature?

How are you detaching the masters? If you are accidentally pressing the shortcut keys for Edit Detached just deactivate the shortcut for that command

[ZebraJamie]

@thomaso Yes, Global pages would be excellent. I will defiantly be adding whatever vote/support I can to this idea.

I've tried all three options under the Master Page sub-menu, but none of them lock the now editable background. It has little X's in the corners where the handles should be, and any time I mouse-over the page, I activate the controls to move it. The only way I've found to stop these from popping up after they are activated is to lock the layer.  (I've attached screen shots to show what I've encountered.)

 

@carl123 I can select the layer in the Layers panel, but if I clicked off the object sitting behind the master page, I can't just click on the space it's supposed to be. I suspect the Master image is preventing this somehow. If I do a click-drag selection, I can grab it and bring it forward, but it's just one more extra step. I have discovered, after playing with it a little more, that if the background is locked, I can click-through it. So I guess I just need to lock all the layers on my master pages when I set them up.

I'm going to remove the keyboard shortcut, but like I said, sometimes sending the image to the back detaches the master. Maybe it happened as part of my frantic clicking-while-exploring this "feature" and somehow activated it, but now that it's active, I can't find the setting to re-attach the master. The only fix I've found is locking it down after the fact, which I guess is what I'm going to be doing now.

 

So I guess my solution is just manually locking my background layers all the time...which my InDesign-brain doesn't like, because it creates one more thing to fuss with on something that should already be locked. (Curse you, learning curve!) 😅

[thomaso]

1 minute ago, ZebraJamie said:

I've tried all three options under the Master Page sub-menu, but none of them lock the now editable background.

No, as I said, this option does not exist.
I mentioned the "Edit Linked" option for a workaround: If you want to move ALL master page layers on ALL pages down to the bottom of the Layers panel, then activating this option enables this by transferring your layer move to other pages, too.

[prophet]

7 hours ago, carl123 said:

On 6/6/2022 at 2:02 PM, ZebraJamie said:

But when I do that, it goes BEHIND the master page! When it's behind the master page layer, I can't click on it to select it

I can, on the canvas and in the Layers panel, not sure why you can't do that?

(Windows 11)

2 hours ago, ZebraJamie said:

but if I clicked off the object sitting behind the master page, I can't just click on the space it's supposed to be.

I also can select objects behind the Master Page layer. (MacOS 10.14.6) Wonder why OP can not.