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How do I convert a selection into a vector shape?


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8 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

so they must be recorded somewhere

Yes, they are. And they are visible in the Channels panel in Affinity Photo, e.g.,

image.png.af9da521b21f68f16e4e3d2a5136edef.png

-- Walt

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1 minute ago, JimmyJack said:

Are you saying that once the brush (raster) squiggle becomes a mask it is transformed into a vector?

Not in Designer or Photo or Publisher, perhaps in whatever application that @GFS gave a link to.

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8 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Yes, they are. And they are visible in the Channels panel in Affinity Photo, e.g.,

image.png.af9da521b21f68f16e4e3d2a5136edef.png

That is showing the area selected, not just the marching ants. IMHO only a software programmer involved in this type of program would know for sure, users are more likely just to be surmising that they are a pixel selection in their own right. I'll wait till someone from serif  informs me so I will not comment further on that until then.

 

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9 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

That is showing the area selected, not just the marching ants.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

The marching ants denote the area of a pixel selection. For any layer that is active in the Layers panel, any pixels within that area are selected.

-- Walt

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18 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

They select a pixel based area but that does not mean that they are pixel based.

If they are not pixel based areas then what else do you think those selected areas could be based on? They do not create vector curves -- if they did then the Node Tool could be used to change their size or shape.

What else is there they could be based on?

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5 minutes ago, JimmyJack said:

Wish the clip would show that. Once the circle goes to mask there is no vector showing. No control points.

As I pointed out ... it's a very old app.  Back in those days, the UI wasn't as sophisticated as now, but yes you could manipulate your vector mask in the same way as today.

Quote

Are you saying that once the brush (raster) squiggle becomes a mask it is transformed into a vector?

Actually ... it is in fact a vector as you paint.  Not in the sense you are used to, but it is a vectorial description and the only pixels involved are produced in order to draw it on the screen, as a UI description of the vectors.

Grumpy, but faithful (watch out all you cats)

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29 minutes ago, GFS said:

Actually ... it is in fact a vector as you paint.  Not in the sense you are used to, but it is a vectorial description and the only pixels involved are produced in order to draw it on the screen, as a UI description of the vectors.

Sounds rather like Designer's misnamed Vector Brushes.

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I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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7 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

I don't understand what you mean by that.

The marching ants denote the area of a pixel selection. For any layer that is active in the Layers panel, any pixels within that area are selected.

The marching ants surround a pixel based area and that area is selected, I am talking about the marching ants themselves. Surely these are plotted as it is posible to select an area, delete the pixels within that area, move the marching ants to another area and delete the pixel based content in the new area and you can repeat that several times. You can't erase them, clone them out, inpaint them etc. you have to deselect them suggesting they are not a pixel item we can control. The program know where they are, where they get moved to and what is within them. they are a form of boundary box and to me that suggests they are a form of curve that only the program can use, we have no control of them other than the position but yes we can do what we like with the pixels they surround but not with them.  The area shown in the channels panel thumb is an area and not an outline formed by the marching ants, deselect and the marching ants and the pixel selection remains in the channels panel.

17 minutes ago, R C-R said:

If they are not pixel based areas then what else do you think those selected areas could be based on? They do not create vector curves -- if they did then the Node Tool could be used to change their size or shape.

What else is there they could be based on?

I know the area they surround is a pixel based area that is obvious. They don't create vector curves, again that is obvious. What is only obvious only to the programmers and not to the user is how the program knows what area they are surrounding and what can be done within it. Use the freehand selection tool and you click and hold to set down the start, drag the marching ants out round an area then release the click and the selection will close as it knows where the start is. That is similar to how a curve works hence why I think it could be a form of curve controlled by the program and if it is then maybe it is a simple matter to convert it to a curve we can edit.

If it looks like a curve, acts like a curve it is more likely to be a curve than a pixel selection. As I say as users we can only surmise what they are.

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2 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

similar to how a curve works hence why I think it could be a form of curve

Faulty logic. 

 

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I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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3 hours ago, GFS said:

As I pointed out ... it's a very old app.  Back in those days, the UI wasn't as sophisticated as now, but yes you could manipulate your vector mask in the same way as today.

Actually ... it is in fact a vector as you paint.  Not in the sense you are used to, but it is a vectorial description and the only pixels involved are produced in order to draw it on the screen, as a UI description of the vectors.

Ohhh-kaaayee. 

2 hours ago, Old Bruce said:

Sounds rather like Designer's misnamed Vector Brushes.

That's what is sounds like to me too. But in AF at least you still have access to the curve carrying the pixels.
Maybe the old app does too, idk. But regardless.

The original question remains.... making a pixel selection into a path.
I assume that this is just a variation of auto trace. It just doesn't include the initial step of the computer deciding (according to given parameters) what to select.
(I believe auto trace makes a pixel selection according to the raster image which is then translated to vectors.)

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9 minutes ago, JimmyJack said:

The original question remains.... making a pixel selection into a path.

Cannot do that at all in any of the Affinity applications.

3 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

So what is the correct logic? and what is your proof my logic is faulty?

First we have to define, or agree on, what a Vector is then we have to define, or agree on, what a Pixel Selection is. I am not interested in teaching basics of logic.

 

5 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

My logic is if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it ain't a butterfly.

That is not logic, as I suspect you may already know.

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I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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27 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Sounds rather like Designer's misnamed Vector Brushes.

Well, sort of.  But as you can see, it paints like a pixel brush and not a vector brush. However, if you want to use your painting as a vector 'shape' with handles, then it makes a vector shape, with points/handles, from the paint.  You can choose how exact you want the shape... how many pixels per point.  However, it leaves the brushed paint untouched, with its normal stencil/mask.  Basically ... think of every variation and it does it.  Did I mention it's also unbelievably fast? 😊

Grumpy, but faithful (watch out all you cats)

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17 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

 

First we have to define, or agree on, what a Vector is then we have to define, or agree on, what a Pixel Selection is. I am not interested in teaching basics of logic.

 

So I just have to believe what you say that my logic is faulty when you have no interest of proving that yours is correct. 

We don't have to define or agree what a vector is or what a pixel selection is. If anything we need to define what the makeup of the marching ants is and that is something we can't know unless we know how the program is coded. I don't know that and I suspect you do not know either. 

So I will say again prove my logic is wrong and then I might be interested in what you say.

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8 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

We don't have to define ... what a pixel selection is. ... we need to define what the makeup of the marching ants is

????

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Affinity Designer 1.10.5 | Affinity Photo 1.10.5 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.5 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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19 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

something we can't know unless we know how the program is coded.

That'll never happen.

Why are you wanting to complicate a simple matter?

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

 

The marching ants denote the area of a pixel selection. For any layer that is active in the Layers panel, any pixels within that area are selected.

Only in simplistic cases. The ants actually show the area where 50% alpha level is "crossed". In case of partial selections (by alpha value), the ants  line could be totally misleading (even missing if you select only by 45%)

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55 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

That is similar to how a curve works hence why I think it could be a form of curve controlled by the program and if it is then maybe it is a simple matter to convert it to a curve we can edit.

That does not make it a vector curve. This topic is about converting a marching ants selection into a vector curve, not about how the marching ants selection can be moved or modified.

46 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

My logic is if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it ain't a butterfly.

 Fine as far as it goes but there are several different things that can walk & quack like a duck, which is what your logic fails to consider.

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2 hours ago, Dangerous said:

Surely the marching ants are a form of vector curve and if so it should not take much to implement this feature.

No, they are indicating the line where selection alpha is crossing the 50% threshold. In simple cases (0 or 100% alpha) it looks like a vector line, but it isn't technically.

 

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2 minutes ago, Ron P. said:

That'll never happen.

Why are you wanting to complicate a simple matter?

I am not trying to complicate thing and how is it a simple matter if it can't be done in AP. It is obvious that we will never know how the program is coded, my point was unless we did know we, as users, can't say whether the marching ants are pixel based or vector curve based. Not that it matters to us because there is nothing we could do anyway. The point is IF they are vector curved based within the program it should not be that difficult for serif to implement. 

I am asking serif to add the feature or at least come back to this thread and say whether or not they intend to add it or not.

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3 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

my point was unless we did know we, as users, can't say whether the marching ants are pixel based or vector curve based.

Final words on the matter.

We as users do know, and can say, that a Marching Ants selection is Pixel based, meaning it is not Vector based.

While we can use a vector object to make a Marching Ants Selection there is no way to get the cooked omelette back into a raw egg.

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Affinity Designer 1.10.5 | Affinity Photo 1.10.5 | Affinity Publisher 1.10.5 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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12 minutes ago, Dangerous said:

as users, can't say whether the marching ants are pixel based or vector curve based

we have very strong evidence that it is pixel based.

you can save every pixel selection as spare channel or mask.

If you convert it to first to mask, then to a grayscale layer, add a threshold adjustment, you will see that the marching ants are exactly following the (default) 50% threshold line.

(1) selection (over a gradient, selection has been featured)

65299549_Screenshot2022-04-21at22_26_08.thumb.png.9d1f04e52826e2b26e655d01459f643e.png

(2) grayscale layer created from selection 

(selection still active)

1333657312_Screenshot2022-04-21at22_26_31.thumb.png.5eec9fa5f3502067c92a8367efd9db5f.png

(3) threshold applied

(selection active for screenshot, but the adjustment was created without active selection / full white inherent mask)

779995727_Screenshot2022-04-21at22_26_47.thumb.png.78f5dec2789f93ffb0abb53b0fb490d4.png

selection and marching ants.afphoto

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

That does not make it a vector curve. This topic is about converting a marching ants selection into a vector curve, not about how the marching ants selection can be moved or modified.

 

True, that fact it appears to act like a vector curve does not make it a vector curve, it does not make them a pixel selection either yet some are insisting that they are a pixel selection. I have never claimed them to be a vector curve but some have stated they are a pixel selection and their only reason for saying that seems to be because they create a pixel selection of the pixel they enclose.

I know what the post is about. Yes I want the marching ants to be converted in to a vector. I have said that several time. I have given my reasons of why they appear to be and act more like some form of vector curve than they do a pixel selection. Some are saying they are a pixel selection when they do not act like a pixel selection and can't be acted on in the same way as a pixels, they select the pixel area they enclose. A totally different thing. Just because the pixel selection area they enclose is shown in the channels panel means the area they enclose is a pixel selection. It means absolutely nothing about what the marching ants are as once deselected you can't get them back unless you reselect the area. Yes you can save any pixel selection as a spare channel BUT YOU CAN'T SAVE THE MARCHING ANTS. Who cares that they follow the 50% threshold, I don't.

I have made it plain enough that I would like the marching ants converted in to  a vector curve. I can't make that any more obvious.  This thread is getting nowhere so until serif respond as to whether or not this feature will be implemented I will give up commenting and leave you all to it.

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