Lens calibration in Affinity

[ArieV]

Hello there,

First post from this user.  Let me begin by introducing myself.  I'm a keen amateur photographer who's been shooting for over 30 years.  In 2005, I switched from film to digital/photoshop.  Until late last year I was using photoshop CS6.  Then I bought a Canon RP with an 24-240 and 16/2.8.  CS6 doesn't handle the CR3 files this camera produces.  Like so many photographers I was loathing the Adobe subscription model and switched to Affinity.  I'm so glad I did.  I'm starting to like it more and more as I learn.

The Canon 24-240 and 16/2.8 rely on computer corrections for correct imaging.  Unlike older film-era lenses, the distortion and light fall-off corrections for newer lenses are compulsory and not optional.  Unfortunately, the Lensfun database doesn't support these lenses.  I downloaded the Lensfun repository, and while this helped me find support for some lenses I own (e.g. Tokina 14-20/2), these new and popular RF-mount lenses are not supported.  Desperate, I trolled the internet and found some unofficial lens definitions.  For these the distortion corrections are not bad, but the vignetting definitions are poor and the c/a corrections are not there.

I'm now in the position where I'm looking to create my own lens definitions using the instructions found here: https://pixls.us/articles/create-lens-calibration-data-for-lensfun/  This involves running Python scripts, which is awkward but doable.  But all of this got me thinking: what if these scrips were built right into Affinity?  What if I could simply load a flat frame into Affinity and tell it to create a model that I could store as a lens definition?  What if I could load a photo with a high-contrast scene from which I could compute (and store) an accurate c/a model?

The reality is that these days, these corrections are compulsory.  Lensfun is a wonderful resource, but momentum behind it seems to have slowed.  It'd be great to have a lens calibration module built right in to Affinity.  I think this would give Affinity yet another leg up on Adobe.  I know photoshop users are bemoaning the lack of RF-lens support.  I think a lens calibration module would be relatively easy to implement, it would add a lot of power to an already powerful package, and it would give Affinity a competitive advantage.

Thank you for your consideration.  Arie 

 

[Stapler]

Hi @ArieV

If you use a Mac, try to use Apple Core Image RAW instead and see if the 24-240 is supported.

Helped me when the new Nikon Z lenses came out and still today as the for example the Z14-30 is supported by Apple RAW (but not in Affinity)

Good luck.

 

[ArieV]

Hi Stapler,

Thanks for your reply.  I work on a PC.  When I fist bought my mirrorless gear, I used Canon's DPP software for raw processing.  DPP works well, but for workflow considerations I really like to work fully within Affinity.  There are some nice aspects in the Affinity raw persona that are missing in DPP; e.g. straightening (rotation).

Affinity has some nice tools for automatic vignetting correction and automatic c/a correction.  They work great on some images, but on other scenes these tools produce spurious results.  It'd be nice to calculate these corrections on images shot specifically for calibration, and then to be able to store the model for future use.  For example, the vignetting model could be estimated from shooting flat frames, and for c/a I could shoot a bunch of images through treebranches against a washed-out sky (before those branches leaf out).

More and more, these types of corrections are becoming an essential part of the processing flow.  For my lenses, these corrections are not just a nice-to-have; they are as essential as demosaicing.

Ideally, the lens manufacturer would supply this data.  When I purchase a lens like 24-240, 'm purchasing an imaging system that is partly optics, partly computation.  I have no problem with that, as long as the manufacturer enables me to do the computational part.  I suppose that in Canon's view, everyone should use DPP, and that's the end of it.  I'm not quite on-board with that, and I do feel somewhat short-changed by Canon.

Some software solutions are built around lens correction, e.g. DxO.  That is nice, but I understand that obtaining and testing lenses is a very expensive proposition for a software company.  I don't expect Affinity to do the legwork for me.  I think the use of Lensfun, a community database, is the right decision.  The problem with Lensfun is that it's really only supported by a few developers on GitHub, and has been losing momentum.  I've been keen to run the Python scripts, but I got stuck on loading certain arcane libraries.  To me, it would make sense to have lens calibration routines right within Affinity.  Affinity is already 90% there - the finish line is in sight.

Arie

 

[Stapler]

On 4/3/2022 at 6:38 PM, ArieV said:

Hi Stapler,

I work on a PC. 

Hi @ArieV

As you work on PC well, i could try to develop a RAW file for you (and see if it works ( lens is supported in Apple RAW) if you wold like to convert to Mac  🙂

Im in the same boat, Nikons software is TERRIBLE! (performance and functions) and i only want to work in Affinity.

I also agree that manufacturers should provide the lens data (with defringe etc), especially when their programs are free and can't do 5% of what a dedicated editing software can.

It would be a win win.

 

Hopefully we can get that in the future.

Have a nice day!

[ArieV]

Hi Stapler,

Canon's DPP does a masterful job of raw conversion.  The output is sharp, the tonal values are excellent, noise is well-controlled, and the software is intuitive to use.  But:

1) DPP only has lens profiles for Canon lenses.  Aside from Canon lenses I use Sigma, Tamron, and Tokina gear.  Of course, these third-party lenses are not supported by Canon.  It'll convert photos taken with these lenses, but distortion, c/a and vignetting remain uncorrected.

2) While DPP produces awesome output, it is slooow.  Processing individual images is torture.  It's best to set values for a bunch of images, start a batch-convert to tiff, and then walk away to go get a cup of coffee.

3) Switching between software packages results in a less-than-optimal workflow.  Also, for some reason, DPP does not recognize tiffs created with Affinity.  That's a DPP problem, and not an Affinity problem.

4) Affinity is every bit as good as DPP, which is a major accomplishment by Serif.

 

[walt.farrell]

36 minutes ago, ArieV said:

3) Switching between software packages results in a less-than-optimal workflow.  Also, for some reason, DPP does not recognize tiffs created with Affinity.  That's a DPP problem, and not an Affinity problem.

Depending on how it is behaving, that may be due to:

1. The file suffix (TIFF vs TIF); or 

2. Compression, as dinner applications don't handle some (or any) forms of TIFF compression.

 

[ArieV]

Hi Walt,

I tried messing with with the file extensions (upper vs lowercase, tif vs tiff) and none gets DPP to recognize them.  I'm pretty sure it's the type of tiff compression that Affinity applies.  This is DPP's problem, not Affinity.  Affinity's compressed tiff files are clearly valid because they open in other applications  and thumbnail correctly in Windows 11 file explorer.

This is too bad because DPP also works well as a raw browser (replacing Adobe Bridge in my copy of CS6, which does not recognize .CR3 files)

Arie

[walt.farrell]

5 minutes ago, ArieV said:

I'm pretty sure it's the type of tiff compression that Affinity applies.

If you want you can change or eliminate the compression during Export (but not during Save).

[ArieV]

3 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

If you want you can change or eliminate the compression during Export (but not during Save).

I suppose I could.  But this is one of these things that should just work.  Even something as basic as Microsoft Paint can recognize Affinity's compressed tiff files.  And Canon's DPP can't.  tsk, Canon.

[Stapler]

Hi @ArieV

 

Hmm, yeah different brand lenses is difficult when developing 

 

Nikons NX studio do a great job too developing with accuracy, but as you say with DPP, NX is slooooooooowwwww, as in: not usable (compared to ex Affinity).

I can't really believe that NX is so slow, it must be on purpose? 

Developing it in Affinity is instant and performance is fantastic.

How can the big camera companies do such a poor job of making image software? Leaves a bad taste for me.

 

I take the not optimal vignetting handling using Apple RAW in Affinity and work around it (adjust manually) so i just use Affinity.

Working in different softwares kills the flow for me.

 

Nikon if you are listening 🙂 , please make a Plugin for Affinity that we can buy that supports the lenses and cameras and integrates with the develop persona!

We would happily buy that, you can make money from this! 

 

Happy easter!

[RichardMH]

If you look around you might find Adobe's lens profile creator. They stopped making it available for download a few years ago. From memory its pretty easy to use.

 

Adobe still have it on their web site but the links don't work.

https://helpx.adobe.com/au/photoshop/digital-negative.html#Adobe_Lens_Profile_Creator

[v_kyr]

On 4/14/2022 at 1:43 PM, Stapler said:

Nikon if you are listening 🙂 , please make a Plugin for Affinity that we can buy that supports the lenses and cameras and integrates with the develop persona!

LOL, why and how should they do that?

First of all APh has no real plugin interface nor does it offers API support for such things. Second you've to understand how a certain software like Affinity Photo is code-wise build-up and works here in general for it's RAW development component. APh relies here completely on free available opensource third party libraries (namely libRaw & LensFun), so they didn't reinvented the wheel and are just reusing existent third party code for their RAW development tasks. Same as do most other freeware opensource RAW Converters (RawTherapee, Darktable, digiKam ... etc.) too here.

Further I pretty much doubt Nikon has interests to support those opensource projects (aka libRaw/LensFun) then, since they already offer themself software development kits (Nikon SDKs) for such purposes!

Quote

nikonimaging.com ... We offer software development kits (SDKs) free of charge to those developing products and services that incorporate Nikon digital imaging products. ...

 

[walt.farrell]

37 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

APh relies here completely on free available opensource third party libraries (namely libRaw & LensFun), so they didn't reinvented the wheel and are just reusing existent third party code for their RAW development tasks.

 

37 minutes ago, v_kyr said:

Further I pretty much doubt Nikon has interests to support those opensource projects (aka libRaw/LensFun) then, since they already offer themself software development kits (Nikon SDKs) for such purposes!

Actually, Serif acquired some code from Canon that they use for some of the newer Canon formats, after libRaw was taking forever to support them. So they've already, for one manufacturer, stepped away somewhat from reliance on libRaw.

Possibly they would consider doing the same for another manufacturer?

[v_kyr]

2 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Possibly they would consider doing the same for another manufacturer?

Possibly, I can't tell, since it's their decision what to do here then, not mine.

• Nikon SDK Infos

[Stapler]

Hi @v_kyr.

I don't know if you want to come across as a bully or as a generally not nice person, but you do.

You also write your opinions / beliefs as facts and by doing so spreading miss information.

I really don't understand what you wanted with your comment, why would you even take time to write it?

 

However, i will entertain the conversation for now.

First off, i was being ironic, i don't think Nikon reads this forum, i understad with text it is hard to tell sometimes.

On 4/17/2022 at 4:44 PM, v_kyr said:

LOL, why

Lol? Why not? If i had a camera company, i would see to it that all my cameras and lenses had industry support everywhere and help developers doing so.

It's just smart buisiness i think.

On 4/17/2022 at 4:44 PM, v_kyr said:

and how should they do that?

Have a public library like lensfun or similar would work but Nikon makes it?

On 4/17/2022 at 4:44 PM, v_kyr said:

First of all APh has no real plugin interface nor does it offers API support for such things.

No? I don't know exactly how advanced it is but we can use plugins.

On 4/17/2022 at 4:44 PM, v_kyr said:

Second you've to understand how a certain software like Affinity Photo is code-wise build-up and works here in general for it's RAW development component.

When you say it like this, it seems you have intimate knowledge of AP code wise, but somehow you don't know that AP already have support for different RAW engines in the develop persona.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 4:44 PM, v_kyr said:

APh relies here completely on free available opensource third party libraries (namely libRaw & LensFun), so they didn't reinvented the wheel and are just reusing existent third party code for their RAW development tasks. Same as do most other freeware opensource RAW Converters (RawTherapee, Darktable, digiKam ... etc.) too here.

Well, this is not true.

https://affinity.help/photo/en-US.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Raw/raw.html?title=Developing a raw image

If you have a mac you can develop using the Apple RAW engine (i do), that supports more lenses than the Affinity built in.

So adding "Nikon RAW engine" would be "trivial" i guess, and that would now support everything Nikon in the Develop Persona.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 4:44 PM, v_kyr said:

Further I pretty much doubt Nikon has interests to support those opensource projects (aka libRaw/LensFun) then, since they already offer themself software development kits (Nikon SDKs) for such purposes!

 

Now you are just contradicting yourself.

First you LOL in your post, and then add a link to a library that can be implemented to support Nikon in AP so AP can do it themselfs.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 7:49 PM, v_kyr said:

Possibly, I can't tell, since it's their decision what to do here then, not mine.

So why on earth would you write your comment then if you clearly don't know but also write as you do?

 

So, my comment was ironic (as i know Nikon might not red this forum), but at the same time i meant it, and it would be perfectly possible to support Nikon in AP.

So, please consider this in the future before posting:  "Is my comment contributing to this conversation in a meaningful way?"

Have a nice day.

 

 

[v_kyr]

2 hours ago, Stapler said:

I don't know if you want to come across as a bully or as a generally not nice person, but you do.

You are free to express your opinion!

2 hours ago, Stapler said:

You also write your opinions / beliefs as facts and by doing so spreading miss information.

Those are facts, believe it or not.

2 hours ago, Stapler said:

First off, i was being ironic ...

Didn't realized that, thus gave a realistic answer!

2 hours ago, Stapler said:

No? I don't know exactly how advanced it is but we can use plugins.

Then give that a try and afterwards come back and tell me your results!

2 hours ago, Stapler said:

When you say it like this, it seems you have intimate knowledge of AP code wise, but somehow you don't know that AP already have support for different RAW engines in the develop persona.

Yeah seems I'm a dully who doesn't know anything about APh, even I work mostly under MacOS and even I'm a software developer (though in other domains than graphics).  😄

Even I believe you probably misinterpreted some of my comments, maybe in the same manner as I didn't realized that your posting was meant ironically, but hey I don't have now the time to go through all that what you quoted above. - So I leave it up to you what you think and how you form your opinion (in terms of freedom of opinion)!

 

[v_kyr]

Ok have now some more time and thus can comment and give some further explanation to some of the other above discussion points here...

13 hours ago, Stapler said:

Have a public library like lensfun or similar would work but Nikon makes it?

That would mean, in case it should be opensource like lensfun, that Nikon has to offer the source code and an appropriate licensing of all their cam related software internals here then. So giving insights of how their custom maker notes are build-up ... etc. That would be pretty much like as if Serif/Affinity would make their proprietary file format officially public, which is unlikely to happen too here.  - Why? Well the companies fear that other competitors in the market will get then too much insights about how certain of their products are build and may steal or adapt the one or other idea then from them.

Further Nikon is just one of the many cam vendors Affinity and other software has to support here. If you would have to always integrate xx cam vendor APIs/SDKs that's not very efficient in terms of the overall resulting Affinity app size or other software app size here.

13 hours ago, Stapler said:

Well, this is not true.

https://affinity.help/photo/en-US.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Raw/raw.html?title=Developing a raw image

If you have a mac you can develop using the Apple RAW engine (i do), that supports more lenses than the Affinity built in.

So adding "Nikon RAW engine" would be "trivial" i guess, and that would now support everything Nikon in the Develop Persona.

Nope it's not trivial either, but if done the right way would offer software based the most access to the Nikon cam system/Nikon universe. BTW, Apple also doesn't support everything here yet (see the Nikon Z9 mentioning below)! - And further Apple's RAW engine is Affinity under Apple MacOS specific and so nothing cross-platform related here. - Meaning as Mac users we can benefit from a switching over to the MacOS related RAW engine (as far as that supports more cams & lenses here then as the libraw & lensfun combo), since APh for MacOS can reuse that one here for RAW processing too. - But now you're dependent on Apple then here and so if they probably already support a specific cam & lens then. Also they only add new cam & lenses support always to their latest/newest MacOS systems. So if you probably use older Apple hardware, which is baked to an older MacOS version (aka some time stopped to support newer OS versions), then you won't be able to make any use out of that their latest OS supports more cam equipment here. - As an actually example, see the Nikon Z9 threads here in the forum, neither Serifs (libraw based) RAW-engine, nor Apples Monterey so far do support a Z9 yet at the moment!

13 hours ago, Stapler said:

Now you are just contradicting yourself.

First you LOL in your post, and then add a link to a library that can be implemented to support Nikon in AP so AP can do it themselfs.

I laughed since I first though your comment about "Nikon do you listen" was maybe meant serious here. And I added the link to their SDK just in order to imply that Nikon could then of course say "... well you can use our SDK instead in order to support our cams & lenses", or the like. - However, the Nikon SDK AFAIK isn't easy to reuse, I know this from some other devs, who stated this and already tried to reuse some functionallity of it in some own custom tools. Meaning of course many things are possible in development/coding, but it can be a very stony way until you reach the state you have hopped to get close to.

But as said above, don't take my comments here for granted, or set in stone, as I'm just a dully and of course everyone else in the forums here knows a lot more and much better than I do! 😉

 

[ArieV]

On 4/17/2022 at 2:55 AM, RichardMH said:

If you look around you might find Adobe's lens profile creator. They stopped making it available for download a few years ago. From memory its pretty easy to use.

 

Adobe still have it on their web site but the links don't work.

https://helpx.adobe.com/au/photoshop/digital-negative.html#Adobe_Lens_Profile_Creator

Ah, yes, I remember now.  Adobe did have something like this at one point.  My idea is to have an Affinity version that creates output compatible with Lensfun.