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Affinity Publisher - management of layers


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Hi you all,

I would like to understand more the functioning of layers. So perhaps if there is a guide I didn't see, link it to me and sorry for the request.

QUESTION:

I would like to be able to switch on or off (as in Adobe) a category of layers (example: images) for all the pages, not page by page.

In a previous similar question, a user of this forum sent me an example, and I understood that it is possible to create Master-Layers (layers inside the Master), that you can find in your single page (if it has that Master applied). In this way, I can do it. I can switch on and off in the master a layer for all the pages involved with a single click. Perfect.

But each time to edit that text-object in the single page, you should give a "permission", and it slows the process. See the images attached.

Is there a faster way to obtain a similar result without giving this permission each time?

Thank you in advance,

best

V

Screenshot_5.jpg

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2 hours ago, VirginiaL said:

I would like to be able to switch on or off (as in Adobe) a category of layers (example: images) for all the pages, not page by page.

If you want to turn it on or off in all pages, you put it in a Master Page, and you apply the Master Page to all pages, and you turn it on or off on the Master Page, rather than using Edit Detached or Edit Linked on individual document pages.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

If you want to turn it on or off in all pages, you put it in a Master Page, and you apply the Master Page to all pages, and you turn it on or off on the Master Page, rather than using Edit Detached or Edit Linked on individual document pages.

yes, the problem is not switching off or on (that one is solved).

The question is that, with this procedure, if I want to change the text, the image... BEFORE I need to give the permission. Thank you anyway!

to Hens: yes, the problem is not more switching them off. The problem is that with this system, modifying everything becomes longer.

Any shorter system?

 

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1 hour ago, VirginiaL said:

The question is that, with this procedure, if I want to change the text, the image

As long as the text frame is on the Master Page, but the actual text is on a document page, you should be able to edit it normally on the document page simply by selecting it and typing.

If that is not working for you it might help to have a sample document that illustrates the problem.

That should also be true for images within Picture Frames, unless (possibly) you've Pinned the image or frame into a text frame that was inherited from a Master Page. Again, if that's not the case, a sample .afpub document would help.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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On 3/2/2022 at 10:59 AM, VirginiaL said:

But each time to edit that text-object in the single page, you should give a "permission", and it slows the process. See the images attached.

Is there a faster way to obtain a similar result without giving this permission each time?

Unfortunately not. It would be possible with "Global Layers". The previous mentioned "Master Page Layers" are no alternative, even though both features have aspects in common. As you noticed, the most limiting attitude of Master Page is the need to get detached each time on each page again & again. So, actually it hardly can be a substitute for Global Layers. If you consider that Global Layers are a feature to speed up the workflow then a Master Page may rather slow it down.

Aside the long thread linked above this post in a different thread illustrates the additionally required steps when using a Master Page as kind of a global layer.

 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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1 hour ago, thomaso said:

The previous mentioned "Master Page Layers" are no alternative,

Except that Virgina started out by saying (with my emphasis) "I would like to be able to switch on or off (as in Adobe) a category of layers (example: images) for all the pages, not page by page."

For that specific use case, Layers on Master Pages should work fine. Turn them off on the Master and they are off on all pages you've applied the Master to. One operation, no "asking for permission". Same for turning them on again.

 

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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12 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

Except that Virgina started out by saying (with my emphasis) "I would like to be able to switch on or off (as in Adobe) a category of layers (example: images) for all the pages, not page by page."

For that specific use case, Layers on Master Pages should work fine. Turn them off on the Master and they are off on all pages you've applied the Master to. One operation, no "asking for permission". Same for turning them on again.

The odd simplified, narrow view again. Another 1-click way to make a layer disappear would be to close the document or to delete the layer. Hiding a master page layer is not the same like hiding a global layer (what Virginia actually referred to) – although both ways do hide layers, as closing or deleting do, too.

Walt, it doesn't make sense to argue in your way repeatedly, just ignoring what Global layers are meant for and what cumbersome workflow Master layers require. What advantage does it make if I can switch a layer on/off with a click if it requires a bunch of clicks before to enable me using this single on/off click. That is why Virginia's final + only question to the forum was the conclusion:

On 3/2/2022 at 10:59 AM, VirginiaL said:

Is there a faster way to obtain a similar result without giving this permission each time?

Note "faster" as a focus on workflow speed. – So your suggestion again feels like: "You can't do it faster but I, Walt, know about a slower workflow that I can't resist to have to tell you about." 

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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8 minutes ago, thomaso said:

What advantage does it make if I can switch a layer on/off with a click if it requires a bunch of clicks before to enable me using this single on/off click.

If you constantly needed to turn a layer on and off on all pages I might agree with you. But it's probably just 3 extra clicks in most cases, and it handles all pages.

Would it be simpler with a Global Layer? Sure. But if your choice is to do it individually on all the pages (which would be a lot of clicks) or use 3 clicks to handle it from a Master Page, i'll take doing it with a Master Page.

You seem to feel that the capability is worthless there. It's not; there's a middle ground that will handle a lot of cases in a not too terrible way.

-- Walt
Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases
PC:
    Desktop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 

    Laptop:  Windows 11 Pro, version 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU.
iPad:  iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 17.4.1, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard 
Mac:  2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sonoma 14.4.1

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1 hour ago, walt.farrell said:

it's probably just 3 extra clicks in most cases

How did you count that? To use master pages for what the OP literally asked for...:

On 3/2/2022 at 10:59 AM, VirginiaL said:

a category of layers (example: images) for all the pages, not page by page.

... would require to place every layout object inside a master layer, and thus require to detach this master page layer again + again on every page where an image gets placed.

So, your "3 extra clicks" might be true in documents with 1 object on 1 page – which, ironically, would not need at all your master page 'solution': you simply can hide the according image layer directly with 1 click.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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2 hours ago, thomaso said:

... would require to place every layout object inside a master layer, and thus require to detach this master page layer again + again on every page where an image gets placed.

Just to be clear, when I work like Walt has described I click once on one Master Page and the layer is turned off on all the pages where that Master Page is applied.

To be really clear I would point out that it is One double click to select the Master Page and One click to turn off the layer. All the pictures are off. No detaching, I only do that when I have one instance of one item once that is causing some grief.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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22 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Just to be clear,

If I want to set my layers to invisible I simply can close the document or shut down the computer etc. – Obviously there are more conditions than just hiding to meet this topics request and answer its question.

When using Master Pages one condition is the frequent detaching procedure which is required repeatedly during layout creation. Depending on the layout complexity the number of additional clicks can become massive – while, if this topic asks to speed up the workflow, it seems really strange to propose a workflow that requires extra clicks in the first place and thus slows down the workflow.

So, as a response to the OP's initial post, it's rather satirical to suggest master pages as a substitute for global layers.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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@thomasoI gave up on that other lengthy thread in large part because you insisted that your way to do things was the only way to do things, accompanied by increasing levels of mockery and derision aimed at people who disagreed with your way.  Please do not pollute this thread, which has been conducted civilly up to this point.

The very length of that other thread should make it clear that there are diverse opinions on the subject of how Affinity layer management can be enhanced and extended.  Your viewpoint is one of several, and not all those viewpoints even have the same objectives!  That means not everyone is even using the same criteria to judge solutions.  Insisting that your way is the only way, and your viewpoint is the only viewpoint is ... tedious ... for your colleagues here in the forums.

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4 hours ago, sfriedberg said:

because you insisted that your way to do things was the only way to do things

@sfriedberg, in this thread with only 1 question of the OP …

On 3/2/2022 at 10:59 AM, VirginiaL said:

I would like to be able to switch on or off (as in Adobe) a category of layers (example: images) for all the pages, not page by page.

Is there a faster way to obtain a similar result without giving this permission each time?

… with the additional info …:

On 3/2/2022 at 2:34 PM, VirginiaL said:

the problem is not switching off or on (that one is solved).

23 hours ago, VirginiaL said:

I can't move the object

… makes clear that the OP refers to their known use of Global Layers. This is not a matter of "my way doing" but rather of understanding or misunderstanding things: While master pages need additional clicks for detaching, global layers don't. This is not me, it is a fundamental difference of features.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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15 hours ago, thomaso said:

When using Master Pages one condition is the frequent detaching procedure which is required repeatedly during layout creation.

I am not sure I understand what you mean. Can you explain more about why detaching anything is repeatedly required during layout creation?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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1 hour ago, R C-R said:

Can you explain more about why detaching anything is repeatedly required during layout creation?

Because you need to detach the master layer every time you enter a page to do certain, layout related edits to its master items, e.g. resize or "move the object" as the OP mentioned. Once you have detached a master layer on one page and switch to another page to edit its objects there, the currently active detached mode gets automatically deactivated and requires the next detaching on the other page.

Considering that during a layout process with individual page layouts (> altered master object layout), the various objects on different pages, as the OP says "example: images", would get touched (edited) more than once, gives an idea that the frequency for required detaching would increase and easily gets larger than the number of objects or even just the number of pages. This will reduce and can rather quickly nullify the advantage of using master page objects for individual page layouts.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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1 hour ago, thomaso said:

Because you need to detach the master layer every time you enter a page to do certain, layout related edits to its master items, e.g. resize or "move the object" as the OP mentioned.

OK, but why would you put those items into a master page to begin with?

1 hour ago, thomaso said:

Once you have detached a master layer on one page and switch to another page to edit its objects there, the currently active detached mode gets automatically deactivated and requires the next detaching on the other page.

Can't you avoid the need to do that by using the Edit Linked feature & being careful about which items you place in master pages?

All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.4.1 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7
Affinity Photo 
1.10.8; Affinity Designer 1.108; & all 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7

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44 minutes ago, R C-R said:

OK, but why would you put those items into a master page to begin with?

I would not, but exactly this was recommended in this thread above:

On 3/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, walt.farrell said:

If you want to turn it on or off in all pages, you put it in a Master Page, and you apply the Master Page to all pages, and you turn it on or off on the Master Page, rather than using Edit Detached or Edit Linked on individual document pages.

In case your question has an emphasize on "to begin with": If you create the objects on the individual document pages exterior of the master layer then the initially requested goal of this topic to show/hide all those layers with 1-click on all pages doesn't work.

Also you can't create these objects inside a master layer on that page to make use of the show/hide 1-click on the master page because those individual objects don't appear on the master page. Although you may nest these new objects inside the master layer (after detaching) on the individual document page and get them locked this way like master objects they in fact aren't 'real' master page objects (they don't show the orange stripe in the layers panel). You can not hide a master layer on all pages, you only can hide the containing layers on the master page. But this will not affect any layer created individually on certain pages inside this master layer.

Compare this detail of the OP's sample .afpub, where I moved some images from above the existing master layer inside the master layer:

1221763989_masterlayerobjectssample.jpg.1d20da7b9035688a47fa7bffb5ffc303.jpg

44 minutes ago, R C-R said:

Can't you avoid the need to do that by using the Edit Linked feature & being careful about which items you place in master pages?

No: "Edit Linked" would transfer this new individual objects to the master page, thus occurring on all pages which have this master assigned. So if you  add object X on page 1 and object Y on page 2 then doing it "linked" would show A + B on page 1 and 2, and both pages would look the same.

What do you mean with "careful"? – People who want to use the master page option to hide layers across the entire document would place this objects in a master layer.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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On 3/5/2022 at 2:40 AM, thomaso said:

When using Master Pages one condition is the frequent detaching procedure which is required repeatedly during layout creation. Depending on the layout complexity the number of additional clicks can become massive – while, if this topic asks to speed up the workflow, it seems really strange to propose a workflow that requires extra clicks in the first place and thus slows down the workflow.

 

yes, I don't want to be impolite to all of them do not agree with this point of view, but that's correct, thomaso understood  exactly  what I was asking.

I was able to switch-on and off by the use of Master-layers, but the detaching process make my work much longer. If in your case not, ok, happy for you, but in some other kinds of work I can ensure it is like this. In my case for example.

I always check, revision, edit my texts and objects, until exhaustion (it's part of the creative process)... they are never positioned by me once and forever,  without modifications - for the whole process.

I was searching for a behavior similar to those Global Layers you are mentioning (have I understood correctly? Are they under process by programmers)?

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 It is not clear to the forum community whether a feature gets developed, independent of the feature. Also the literally request (Nov21) of a Serif developer to discuss specific possible details for an eventually implementation of a Global Layer feature does not allow a reliable conclusion about any realisation or date. but hope never dies…🦄
Feel free to add your vote under one of the according Feature Request topics, for instance here.

macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1

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3 hours ago, VirginiaL said:

I always check, revision, edit my texts and objects, until exhaustion (it's part of the creative process)... they are never positioned by me once and forever,  without modifications - for the whole process.

In your use case I would suggest to not use Master Pages.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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Hi Old Bruce, yes, but the solution is to "loose" something useful to save time. It is not a disrespect for those who work on this software, or the desire to bother others. I wanted to understand if there was a faster method, I understand from these answers that no, and that the developers are carrying it out.

Answering to your proposal, my case is the following:
- I have a 100 page portfolio, in Italian and English.

1-- If I use Master layers -> I will lose a lot of time in the creative process

2-- If I don't use Master Layers -> I will lose a lot of time on switching on-off page by page the language I don't need everytime I have to update and export my cv-portfolio.

Since I have this portfolio since 2013, and periodically I change it... in my case, perhaps, I prefer to loose time with Master Layers.

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8 hours ago, VirginiaL said:

- I have a 100 page portfolio, in Italian and English.

 

8 hours ago, VirginiaL said:

If I don't use Master Layers -> I will lose a lot of time on switching on-off page by page the language I don't need everytime I have to update and export my cv-portfolio.

Are you going to a page and changing the English and then the Italian, then going to then next page and changing the English and then the Italian then the third page and changing the Italian then changing the English and on and on?

I would go and do all the Italian (actually I can't due to being an Anglo Canuck, but you get the idea). Then I would turn off the Italian and turn on the English in the master page and do all the English.

Mac Pro (Late 2013) Mac OS 12.7.4 
Affinity Designer 2.4.0 | Affinity Photo 2.4.0 | Affinity Publisher 2.4.0 | Beta versions as they appear.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

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1 hour ago, Old Bruce said:

Are you going to a page and changing the English and then the Italian, then going to then next page and changing the English and then the Italian then the third page and changing the Italian then changing the English and on and on?

Pretty sure he's talking about switching the layers on and off prior to export/print, not during edit.

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