Why is 'tint' at 3% more than at a higher %? I think its a bug

[ahnay]

edited.  Please, just tell me if this happens in your software too.  Yes?  its a bug, no? then something is wrong with my code, or my machine.  Thank you.

Is this a bug?

[ahnay]

tint bug .afdesign

[Old Bruce]

Not if the layer is an Image, you are giving the image the chosen colour.

[ahnay]

21 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Not if the layer is an Image, you are giving the image the chosen colour.

what?   i dont think you understand, 😃 , the slider show more color at the 3% then it does at the higher %.  It should be lower, almost no color, er tint.  at 2% its almost no tint, then at 4% its almost no tint, but at 3% its like full tint.  I think its a bug.

[Old Bruce]

Adding colour to the Image (and that is what the layer is) will only give the Hue, no amount of Tint or lightness or saturation is available, just the Hue.

[ahnay]

6 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

Adding colour to the Image (and that is what the layer is) will only give the Hue, no amount of Tint or lightness or saturation is available, just the Hue.

lol, its called the tint tool in color, and yes it does add color not sure what you are talking about.  Anyway, i think its a bug.

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[ahnay]

59 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

One question worth asking would perhaps be, what was tried to be achieved by using a tint when using an RGB image as a shader? If a color was wanted to be used as a tint, the underlying image should be a grayscale image. When the document is in RGB color mode, this can be achieved by using a colored rectangle in screen blend mode on top of an RGB image and applying a desired tint.

 

When the document is in CMYK color mode, the image itself (whether a true grayscale, or handled as one using an RGB image by turning on the K-only button) can be given a color and then make it lighter by using the desired tint value.

I was testing the app, plain and simple.   Yes i know  there are several ways to tint, or tone, an image, that wasnt my question.  

I dont have time to spend making a box and playing with the color/opacity of it when all i usually need to do is move some sliders to achieve it, taking only seconds.  Also, in my world? i rarely tint a grayscale image.  I tint, lighten, saturate more, etc images all the time starting from the color they are.  No reason to start with a grayscale.   Thank you though for your response.  I dont completely understand why you would use the method you show, or how it works?    Usually i am trying to just barely add a color to something, just a hint.  Hence i was in the 3% range and discovered it was bugged. 

 

 

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[ahnay]

7 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

I think that Affinity apps are likely to confuse users by allowing that kind of color assignments (applying a fill color to an RGB or CMYK color image), as it is not obvious what actually happens when doing so. And more importantly, subsequently allowing use of the tint siider with an effect that appears to be a glitch rather than a feature. E.g. in QuarkXPress and InDesign this is not possible: one can only assign colors to grayscale images for tinting and then use auxiliary objects, e,g, shapes, and blend modes for other kinds of colorings (oh yes, and primary and secondary colors for monochrome images).

lol, what?   what does this have to do with my question?  thank you just curious. 

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[ahnay]

9 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

You used the tint slider in purpose of making an adjustment to a fill color assignment made for an RGB image. This has basically no effect (other than the glitch you noticed, which I think is a rounding error and probably will not be fixed because the feature has no practical use; the tint slider could well just be disabled in this situation).

Are you kidding me? lol  you say it has no effect? have you tried it? of course it does!  wow...  It should not be disabled.  .  My question was is it a bug? So you need to try it, and see if it works that way on your system.  then just say yes or no.   If yes its a repeatable bug, if no, then its my system. Geesh! you answered that already above. 

[ahnay]

29 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

I think that Affinity apps are likely to confuse users by allowing that kind of color assignments (applying a fill color to an RGB or CMYK color image), as it is not obvious what actually happens when doing so. And more importantly, subsequently allowing use of the tint siider with an effect that appears to be a glitch rather than a feature. E.g. in QuarkXPress and InDesign this is not possible: one can only assign colors to grayscale images for tinting and then use auxiliary objects, e,g, shapes, and blend modes for other kinds of colorings (oh yes, and primary and secondary colors for monochrome images).

That option is in many software programs i have used.  All the way back to 2000 even before but i cant rem the names of the programs.  Photodraw has it, Gimp has it, even the old serif video maker has it.   I dont believe it will confuse users. Heck, microsofts win 10 has the photo viewer and it has it, although they are preset. 

[Alfred]

14 minutes ago, ahnay said:

even the old serif video maker has it

I’m pretty sure all of the main applications in Serif’s ‘legacy’ range have a Tint slider for lightening/darkening the colour of the selected object(s).

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[Alfred]

5 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

I think that brightening and desaturation sliders are a different thing than adjustment of a colorizing effect (color assignment made to an image).

Serif obviously thought so, too, or they wouldn’t have provided a separate control for shading/tinting.

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

 

[Alfred]

2 hours ago, Lagarto said:

It does work for tinting (when a color is applied to a grayscale image). But when you apply it to an RGB or CMYK image, what do you think decreasing tint values will do? What kind of calculation or blend mode is actually applied is not obvious.

Tinting (or shading) in the sense I was talking about is simply adding a percentage of white (or black) to lighten/darken the colour.

[lacerto]

Obsolete.

[Dan C]

Hi all,

Thanks for the interesting discussion here. I must admit I'm not 100% certain of the expected behaviour of this within Affinity - so I have escalated this internally to our team to try and get a definitive answer & I'll be sure to reply here once I have more info!

Many thanks for your understanding  

[Alfred]

18 minutes ago, Lagarto said:

Yes, but what is happening here is that any fill color is assigned to RGB or CMYK image (in the OP's case an RGB color tint to an sRGB image). Are you saying that the "tint" slider is supposed to work in this context, and that the fact that it does not do anything (except for when zeroed, makes the image grayscale), is a bug, or against your expectations (shaped by experience you have gained using other graphic design apps, e.g. by Serif)?

I see what you mean. Sorry to be so slow on the uptake!

No, I wouldn’t expect it to work in the context described (but if it did, I’d expect it to have no effect when zeroed, rather than making the image greyscale).

[ahnay]

8 hours ago, Lagarto said:

The tint slider does not have practical effect when you have assigned a fill color for an RGB or CMYK image (you can see from the color well that the tint of the fill itself changes, but that change has no effect on the image where it is applied, until turned off, causing the image to become grayscale; and then there is that glitch effect near zero tint values):

 

UPDATE: The document in the video above is in CMYK color mode but the behavior is identical with RGB documents.

 

Interesting, I didnt even try that slider to tint the color when applied. Thats a bug too. Oh i see. If you use the swatches, there is not slider.  So the code is just using the same code for the color as the swatches, which has no lightening or darkening affects,  It should point to the code that is used in the wheel, which has both.  er sorry, pointers, lol. i mean use the codes functions/sub routines.

Ach!  that was the tint slider.  Today when i tried it, i see what you are explaining. So the way i think of digital tinting, is you place a color on top of the image, then you can just move the slider to make the color more visible or less visible, I suppose thats more in the area for 'colorizing' it and in the true sense, tint is adding subtracting  white to a color.  I think this software is using 'saturation' instead of 'tint' going from the brightest hue to the grays hue. 

 

so was searching the net, need to stop and get back to work, but found this interesting:

https://www.virtualartacademy.com/three-components-of-color/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorfulness#Saturation

[Dan C]

Thanks all for your patience here!

I can confirm I have logged 2 issues from this report;

Firstly when using a coloured Image layer, the Tint slider has no effect until it reaches 0%, where the image is then set to greyscale. I don't believe the tint value should change the coloured fill for this image, but it should not set the image to greyscale at 0% - I would expect to see the original coloured image.

Secondly, when using a Black and White image with a coloured fill applied, I can see blending differences at low percentages (specifically 1%, 6% & 8%) and this too is unexpected. 

I hope this helps