Text Styles studio displays wrong style selected after creating a new text frame

[MikeTO]

This is cosmetic but could confuse a new user.

1. Create a text frame
2. Type some text and make it Heading 1
3. Create another text frame
4. Type some more text and it will be Body of course, the default, but the Text Styles studio panel will indicate that it's Heading 1, the last style used in the previous text frame

Attached video shows the issue.

[Old Bruce]

You fail to take into account the + sign in the Text Styles. That indicates overrides. I don't really know what is going on here, I suspect it is that Heading 1 is based on No Style and all "Body" may be based on No Style with no changes, so it appears that Body is applied when it is just overrides from the current No Style.

[walt.farrell]

In the Context Toolbar it shows Heading 1+, and at the top of the Text Styles panel that's also what it shows. But you can expand the one at the top of the Text Styles panel to show all the details.

What does it show when expanded?

Edit: Also, it seems to be at least partially Heading 1 in the way it operates, as it's coming out Centered, even if it's not Bold.

[MikeTO]

Hmm, it appears to depend on which text style was in use when creating the new text frame. Using the default styles in a blank document:

If you are using Body, Box, Bullet 1/2/3, Drop Cap, Initial Words, Line Above, Line Above/Below, or Numbered 1/2/3, the next text frame will have the same style.

If you are using Optical Alignment, the next text frame will have Optical Alignment + Optical Alignment:Non

But if you're using Heading 1 or 2, the next text frame will have Heading 1 or 2 + Font Weight: Normal; Font size: 12 pt. Something is strange here.

[walt.farrell]

One difference between Heading 1 (or 2) and those other styles is that the Heading styles have a "Next Style" setting to switch to Body.

Sounds like the switch is not working fully, and you got a blend of the Text style assigned to the frame and Body.

[MikeTO]

56 minutes ago, walt.farrell said:

One difference between Heading 1 (or 2) and those other styles is that the Heading styles have a "Next Style" setting to switch to Body.

Sounds like the switch is not working fully, and you got a blend of the Text style assigned to the frame and Body.

That's a good idea but it's not that - changing the style so next style = same style doesn't change the behaviour of the bug. 

[Dan C]

Hi @MikeTO,

Thanks for your report!

I can confirm that this appears to be a bug in the application - I would expect the new Text Frame to be using the same style as was last used in the most recently edited frame, but it appears as though the app is creating an incorrect 'hybrid' between Heading 1 and Body when drawing this new frame.

I'm logging this with our developers now for further investigation, I hope this helps

[rogershuff]

Further to this, I'd really like a preference to allow new text frames to either a) assume the characteristics of the last used frame or b) be an absolutely clean default non-modified frame. I'm fed up with my new frames appearing with an inset or stroke that I used previously but that I do not want on my new frame. Even worse when you inadvertently create a series of linked frames - all wrong :-(. I have created a 'Basic Frame' style to reset things but here's another thing - i sometimes have to click another style, then click back on the one I really want to get the style to stick.

[MikeTO]

On 1/27/2022 at 9:44 AM, Dan C said:

Hi @MikeTO,

Thanks for your report!

I can confirm that this appears to be a bug in the application - I would expect the new Text Frame to be using the same style as was last used in the most recently edited frame, but it appears as though the app is creating an incorrect 'hybrid' between Heading 1 and Body when drawing this new frame.

I'm logging this with our developers now for further investigation, I hope this helps

Could you add a bit more to the note for the devs? In another thread this week I described a similar issue with colour. If I create a text frame, type some text, make it 24 pt, red, and Times, and then start a new text frame, the text I type there will be red but the size and font will be the default. Some layout apps have a concept of current formatting, if you draw a new text frame it inherits the attributes of the last edited text while others always reverts to defaults. It's just inconsistent. Thanks.

[Dan C]

14 hours ago, MikeTO said:

If I create a text frame, type some text, make it 24 pt, red, and Times, and then start a new text frame, the text I type there will be red but the size and font will be the default

That's certainly strange, as the app should be retaining these settings between text frames, and this is working correctly for me on Windows.

Just to confirm for my testing, you are using Text Frames and not the Artistic Text tool?

If you create the text frame, set the font, size & colour - then navigate to Edit > Defaults > Save and follow this by drawing a new text frame, are the settings retained?

[MikeTO]

4 hours ago, Dan C said:

That's certainly strange, as the app should be retaining these settings between text frames, and this is working correctly for me on Windows.

Just to confirm for my testing, you are using Text Frames and not the Artistic Text tool?

If you create the text frame, set the font, size & colour - then navigate to Edit > Defaults > Save and follow this by drawing a new text frame, are the settings retained?

Correct, text frames. And saving defaults has no impact. I think you'll be able to duplicate the issue with these steps and I've included a screen recording at the end to show one of the scenarios.

Applying existing styles and attributes to a new text frame is easy, you just pick up the attributes from the last insertion point or from the last character of a selected text block. So if the new frame has incorrect attributes it's almost certainly an issue with how the tags are applied and stored in the previous text frame and that's a real bug that's more important than whatever attributes are applied to new frames. With that in mind, I came up with these some test scenarios:

1. Create a new doc and draw a text frame. If you're using Publisher's defaults, it will be Arial Regular, 12pt, Black.
2. Type "Test" and choose Select All
3. In this exact order, set:
   1. Text colour to Red - the colour values aren't important but pick a colour that is obviously not black
   2. Text size to 30pt - the value isn't important, just different enough to be obvious
   3. Font and Weight to Times Bold - again, not important, I picked a serif to be obvious
4. Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be Arial Regular (wrong), 12pt (wrong), Red.
5. Create a second doc and draw a text frame.
6. Type "Test" and choose Select All again.
7. In this exact order, set:
   1. Font and Weight to Times Bold
   2. Text size to 30pt
   3. Text colour to Red
8. Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be correct, Times Bold, 30pt, Red. I get the same results if I apply Size before Font.

The second bug is that paragraph styles aren't applied in the same manner if text is selected which is a red flag.

 

1. Create a new doc and draw a text frame. If you're using Publisher's defaults, it will be No Style + Arial Regular, 12pt, Left.
2. Type "Test" and with the insertion point still to the right of "Test", set para style to Heading 1. I'm using Publisher's defaults so it will become Arial Bold, 20pt, Black, Centre. We'll ignore the other attributes associated with Heading 1 to keep this simple.
3. Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be Heading 1 + Arial Regular (wrong), 12pt (wrong), Centre.
4. Create a second doc and draw a text frame.
5. Type "Test" but this time choose Select All. You could also double click to select the word, triple click to select the para, or manually select "es" in "Test", the results would be the same. You could also type two paragraphs and select the latter part of para 1 and the first part of para 2 - the important thing is to select text.
6. Set para style to Heading 1.
7. Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be No Style (wrong) + Arial Regular (wrong), 12pt (wrong), Left (wrong) + a long list of other attributes that were part of Heading 1.

You can combine the two issues for more unexpected results:

1. Create a new doc and draw a text frame.
2. Type "Test" and with the insertion point still to the right of "Test", set para style to Heading 1. You'll get the same results if you choose Heading 1 before typing "Test".
3. Choose Select All. In this exact order set:
   1. Font and Weight to Times Bold
   2. Text size to 30pt
   3. Text colour to Red
4. Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be correct.
5. Create a new doc and draw a text frame.
6. Type "Test" and choose Select All.
7. Set para style to Heading 1. In this exact order set:
   1. Font and Weight to Times Bold
   2. Text size to 30pt
   3. Text colour to Red
8. Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be No Style (wrong) + Times Bold, 30pt, Red, Left (wrong)
9. With the insertion point still to the right of "Test" in that new frame, set para style to Bullet 1. This wipes out any character overrides.
10. Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be Bullet 1 + Times Bold (wrong), 30pt (wrong), Red (wrong)

Here's a screen recording of steps 5 to 10 of the last scenario:

[Dan C]

Many thanks for the steps provided here and my apologies for the delay - as I have been awaiting confirmation of the correct behaviour from our team.

On 2/17/2022 at 6:56 PM, MikeTO said:

• Create a new doc and draw a text frame. If you're using Publisher's defaults, it will be Arial Regular, 12pt, Black.
• Type "Test" and choose Select All
• In this exact order, set:
  1. Text colour to Red - the colour values aren't important but pick a colour that is obviously not black
  2. Text size to 30pt - the value isn't important, just different enough to be obvious
  3. Font and Weight to Times Bold - again, not important, I picked a serif to be obvious
• Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be Arial Regular (wrong), 12pt (wrong), Red.

As I understand it, this is mostly expected behaviour. Once you've typed text and selected this, you're no longer changing the defaults for the Text Frame object, you're only changing the properties of the selected text itself, hence these are not retained when creating a new text frame (the colour is incorrectly retained and this I am logging now.)

You either need to draw the text frame, set the font, weight, size & colour before typing text for these defaults to be retained - or if you draw a text frame and type your text, then use ESC to stop editing the text and use the Move Tool to select the text frame itself, then change these settings, they will be retained when creating the next frame.

On 2/17/2022 at 6:56 PM, MikeTO said:

1. Create a second doc and draw a text frame.
2. Type "Test" and choose Select All again.
3. In this exact order, set:
   1. Font and Weight to Times Bold
   2. Text size to 30pt
   3. Text colour to Red
4. Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be correct, Times Bold, 30pt, Red. I get the same results if I apply Size before Font.

I am however able to replicate this and I believe it to be a bug - as there should be no difference in behaviour in the order of which these values are changed, and as above I would not expect them to be retained when changing specific text attributes and not text frame objects directly.

On 2/17/2022 at 6:56 PM, MikeTO said:

• Create a new doc and draw a text frame. If you're using Publisher's defaults, it will be No Style + Arial Regular, 12pt, Left.
• Type "Test" and with the insertion point still to the right of "Test", set para style to Heading 1. I'm using Publisher's defaults so it will become Arial Bold, 20pt, Black, Centre. We'll ignore the other attributes associated with Heading 1 to keep this simple.
• Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be Heading 1 + Arial Regular (wrong), 12pt (wrong), Centre.

I have replicated this issue also and have logged it with our developers!

On 2/17/2022 at 6:56 PM, MikeTO said:

• Create a second doc and draw a text frame.
• Type "Test" but this time choose Select All. You could also double click to select the word, triple click to select the para, or manually select "es" in "Test", the results would be the same. You could also type two paragraphs and select the latter part of para 1 and the first part of para 2 - the important thing is to select text.
• Set para style to Heading 1.
• Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be No Style (wrong) + Arial Regular (wrong), 12pt (wrong), Left (wrong) + a long list of other attributes that were part of Heading 1.

As for the first issue reported, I wouldn't expect the Paragraph Style to be retained here, as it has not been set for the text frame, but rather the text directly.

When following these steps in my testing (starting from a clean installation of the app) the first text frame has the Paragraph Style applied as expected, when drawing the second text frame the current 'saved' text frame defaults are used - meaning no Paragraph Style is applied. In my case the second text frame drawn had the basic Arial, 12pt, black, no other settings.

On 2/17/2022 at 6:56 PM, MikeTO said:

• Create a new doc and draw a text frame.
• Type "Test" and choose Select All.
• Set para style to Heading 1. In this exact order set:
  1. Font and Weight to Times Bold
  2. Text size to 30pt
  3. Text colour to Red
• Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be No Style (wrong) + Times Bold, 30pt, Red, Left (wrong)
• With the insertion point still to the right of "Test" in that new frame, set para style to Bullet 1. This wipes out any character overrides.
• Draw a new frame and type "Test". It will be Bullet 1 + Times Bold (wrong), 30pt (wrong), Red (wrong)

When changing the text to a default Paragraph Style, this will wipe any local formatting applied and this is By Design. If you wish to retain this local formatting, you will need to open the Text Style studio, then right-click on the text style you wish to apply and select 'Apply "Text Style" To Paragraphs and Preserve Local Formatting' -

I hope this clears things up

[MikeTO]

4 hours ago, Dan C said:

As I understand it, this is mostly expected behaviour. Once you've typed text and selected this, you're no longer changing the defaults for the Text Frame object, you're only changing the properties of the selected text itself, hence these are not retained when creating a new text frame (the colour is incorrectly retained and this I am logging now.)

You either need to draw the text frame, set the font, weight, size & colour before typing text for these defaults to be retained - or if you draw a text frame and type your text, then use ESC to stop editing the text and use the Move Tool to select the text frame itself, then change these settings, they will be retained when creating the next frame.

Thanks Dan. I believe you're saying that Publisher doesn't have a sense of current attributes as I assumed and instead the default attributes are changed when attributes are set and nothing is selected. Got it, but I think #3 and #6 below are confusing.

1. Move or Text Frame tools, no frame selected: Setting attributes changes the default attributes for future frames. Perfect.
2. Move Tool, frame selected: Setting attributes changes the default attributes of the frame and the attributes of any text in it but not the defaults for future frames (with the caveat of colour which you've said is a bug). Perfect.
3. Text Frame tool, cursor in an empty frame: Setting attributes changes the attributes at the insertion point, the default attributes for this frame, and the defaults for future frames. I understand why you're doing this (no text is selected) but I think it's confusing because the frame sure looks selected with its size handles. But it's consistent with the design decision.
4. Text Frame tool, cursor at end of a word: Setting attributes changes the attributes at the insertion point and the default attributes for future frames. As you'd expect, the existing frame's default attributes are not changed, just the temporary attributes at the insertion point which will disappear if you don't type anything before changing tools. This is consistent with the above.
5. Text Frame tool, some or all text selected: Setting attributes changes the attributes of the selected text but not the default attributes for future frames. This is consistent with the design decision.
6. Text Frame tool, cursor in middle of a word: Setting attributes changes the attributes of the word but not the default attributes for future frames. I believe users may find this confusing because nothing is selected so shouldn't Publisher be changing the defaults like in #4? Although it's common for apps to apply character attributes to the current word even if it's not selected, the text is not selected so Publisher should be changing defaults. i.e., If I position the insertion point like this "This is a test|" I'm changing defaults but if I move it one character to the left "This is a tes|t" I'm not changing defaults.

Thanks! BTW, this isn't important to me, I was just banging on the beta.