User interface not user friendly

[Fnuxus]

I’ve been using publishing software for quite a while (Illustrator since version 3, PageMaker since version 4, FrameMaker since version 4, InDesign since version 4) and I consider myself an experienced user.

Since my switch to the Affinity suite I feel like a complete newbie. The user interface is not maclike and not intuitive at all. It seems as if the interface designers never had used any publishing software themselves. Every five minutes or so I observe myself thinking „I can’t use this.“ The problem with the whole Affinity suite is that it doesn’t resemble anything I have used before. OK, In understand, you folks started from scratch, but this doesn’t mean you had to dump all good human interface concepts that have been around for so long.

The problem I ran into today was this: I had imported an indd file and found my paragraph styles. So far, so good. Now I needed to change a paragraph style: I changed the setting for the selected paragraph in the palette and then wanted to change the paragraph style for all paragraphs. First I looked into the context menu and hoped to find a menu item like “adjust paragraph style to selection”. Nothing. At this time my face expression already looked as incredulous as Michael J. Fox while transforming into a werewolf. Then I looked into the palette. Places I’d expect to find such an option would be in the palette itself (like in InDesign or Apple Pages) or in the paragraph styles’s submenu (like in Word). Nothing.

Then I searched the internet and found out that I have to go to the menubar. That is bad interface design. A good interface design offers multiple ways to accomplish something. That you offer this option neither in the context menu nor in the palette is unbelievable.

[GarryP]

Welcome to the forums @Fnuxus

I think what you are looking for is in the Text Styles Panel as Update Paragraph Style (or Update Character Style) – see attached image.

[Fnuxus]

Thank you for your answer. This is indeed what I was looking for.

The problem with the user interface design remains: How on earth should I have looked for it there?

I am used to distinguish between paragraph styles and text styles. I needed to change a paragraph style, not a text style. Why should I consider even looking into the palette with a text styles flag? Why isn’t there an update option in the context menu?

[GarryP]

I agree that it can be a bit of an awkward route to take:

• Go to Paragraph Panel;
• Make changes;
• Go to Text Styles Panel;
• Update Style;
• Go to Character Panel;
• Make changes;
• Go to Text Styles Panel;
• Update Style;
• Go to Context Bar;
• Make changes;
• Go to Text Styles Panel;
• Update Style;
• etc. etc. switching back and forth between panels/bars just to update something.

A button to update the current style in the Paragraph Panel and Character Panel and Context Bar would make things a lot quicker and more convenient.
I’m fairly sure that this sort of thing came up a long while ago, around the time that Publisher was still in beta if I remember correctly.

[PaoloT]

13 minutes ago, Fnuxus said:

The problem with the user interface design remains: How on earth should I have looked for it there?

You were looking for a command in the paragraph styles palette, and it is in the paragraph style palette. Where else should have they had to place it?

13 minutes ago, Fnuxus said:

I am used to distinguish between paragraph styles and text styles. I needed to change a paragraph style, not a text style.

What are paragraph styles, if not text styles? I suspect what you are looking for is not an alternative to InDesign, but an InDesign clone. Publisher is similar to InDesign, but not a clone.

In any case, the above procedure is clearly explained in the online manual.

Paolo

 

[PaoloT]

18 minutes ago, GarryP said:

A button to update the current style in the Paragraph Panel and Character Panel and Context Bar would make things a lot quicker and more convenient.

I'm not in front of my main computer, now. But isn't the same in InDesign? To update a text style, shouldn't you open the Paragraph Styles palette, and right click on the style name to redefine it?

The Paragraph and Character palettes are disjointed from the style, since they allow one to make free changes. Using styles is the good practice, but there is always a degree of freedom left, to avoid overcrowding the Styles palette.

Paolo

 

[MikeTO]

Hi @Fnuxus, with your extensive experience using a variety of apps I think Affinity will feel just like home very soon. I've been using using page layout software even longer than you and when I picked up Affinity the cloud of confusion cleared in a day or two and then it was like slipping on a comfortable pair of slippers. I think Serif's designers have done a remarkable job.

54 minutes ago, Fnuxus said:

First I looked into the context menu and hoped to find a menu item like “adjust paragraph style to selection”. Nothing.

....

A good interface design offers multiple ways to accomplish something. That you offer this option neither in the context menu nor in the palette is unbelievable.

Every application names some things differently and in this case it's right where you were looking and is just named "Update <style name>." And Serif does provide three ways to update your style.

The easiest option is in the Context Bar a the top of the screen which has controls for both character and paragraph attributes. After you've adjusted the paragraph or character attributes as desired, just click the Update paragraph style button (circled in red) to update the paragraph style. Tip: to the right of the Update button is a button to open the Paragraph "studio" (Affinity term for palette) so you can edit the paragraph attributes. And there is a matching pair of Update and show studio buttons to the right of the character style dropdown list, which is to the left of the paragraph style dropdown. Tip: the dropdown indicates if a style has been overridden with a + sign as show in this screenshot, i.e. Body+.

Another way to update your style is through the studio panel's context menu as you attempted. Serif have grouped paragraph and character text styles into one studio panel. You can sort them by type with paragraph styles on the top and character below. Once you've edited your style and have it the way you like it, just click the context menu icon to the right of the style name (or right click anywhere on the style) and choose Update Body.

Finally, you can update your style through the menu bar. Choose Text > Text Styles > Update Paragraph Style (or Update Character Style).

 

[Fnuxus]

2 minutes ago, PaoloT said:

You were looking for a command in the paragraph styles palette, and it is in the paragraph style palette. Where else should have they had to place it?

No, it is in the text styles palette, and only there. Thats my point.

2 minutes ago, PaoloT said:

What are paragraph styles, if not text styles? I suspect what you are looking for is not an alternative to InDesign, but an InDesign clone. Publisher is similar to InDesign, but not a clone.

In any case, the above procedure is clearly explained in the online manual.

Actually, it isn’t. The first page I found was this one: https://affinity.help/photo/de.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Text/paragraphs.html?title=Absatzformatierung – and there is no link to paragraph or text styles. The search option did not work. I had to use Google. 

If I have to use the manual to solve such a trivial problem, the user interface is not well designed.

I use all sorts of applications all the time. I they are well designed I can use them right away. Done right there are not so many possibilities to design software. A user interface should be self-explanatory and consistent across all sorts of applications. That’s what Macintosh is all about.

[PaoloT]

1 hour ago, Fnuxus said:

No, it is in the text styles palette, and only there. Thats my point.

You must first grab the basic concepts of an app. Publisher has the paragraph and character styles all in a single Text Styles palette. I really find it hard to consider unclear what something called Text Style does, unless you are looking for the same identical actions and names as in InDesign. That is not the natural way to do things, but an acquired taste.

1 hour ago, Fnuxus said:

Actually, it isn’t. The first page I found was this one: https://affinity.help/photo/de.lproj/index.html?page=pages/Text/paragraphs.html?title=Absatzformatierung – and there is no link to paragraph or text styles. The search option did not work. I had to use Google. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Help for Affinity Photo doesn't contain anything about Affinity Publisher. But why should it? Publisher has it’s own Help, and that one contains all the relevant information.

1 hour ago, Fnuxus said:

If I have to use the manual to solve such a trivial problem, the user interface is not well designed.

For an app as complex as a publishing program, reading at least once the instructions is not a weakness, but a duty.

Paolo

 

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, Fnuxus said:

No, it is in the text styles palette, and only there. Thats my point.

You have a choice of using Text Styles, in which case you would use the Text Styles panel.

Or you have a choice of not using Text Styles, in which case you would use the Character or Paragraph panels.

Or you can use Text Styles and override them locally for selected text using the Character or Paragraph panels.

It's very flexible, but first you need to learn how the application works, using the Help or the tutorials.

[fde101]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:49 AM, Fnuxus said:

I am used to distinguish between paragraph styles and text styles

Seems to be a terminology difference: what you are calling "text styles", the Affinity apps refer to as "character styles".  "Text styles" is the term that the Affinity apps use generically for both paragraph and character styles.

[Gaunilo]

I agree that the user interface is not really well done. 
It is also not consistent. Using the tab-key to jump from one input frame to the next works sometimes but not always.
Especially bad when using colour. If you input the colour via CMYK you really can't use the tab as it jumps to all kinds of places but not to the obvious ones.

Then there are text elements. You have one tab for Zeichen (Character?) and one for typography with the ligatures etc. This would clearly be sought for in character not in a seperate window. 
The labeling in other languages – i.e. German – is sometimes downright confusing (or you could say: wrong?). 
Lists are in paragraphs not text etc.

I understand the herculean task of making such a program from scratch but with the user interface you wouldn't have to start from scratch as Fnuxus pointed out. 
There were several well designed UI already around. 

While I appreciate the difficulty of translation into different languages it is sometimes hard to find things that are labelled in an unusual way.

Is this the biggest problem of Publisher? NO – that would be the missing footnotes.
Is it an annoying one while working? Yes, repeatedly.

But, I expect it to get better over the years.

[Old Bruce]

1 hour ago, Gaunilo said:

It is also not consistent. Using the tab-key to jump from one input frame to the next works sometimes but not always.

 

1 hour ago, Gaunilo said:

Is it an annoying one while working? Yes, repeatedly.

So annoying, so frustrating. The source of many mistakes.

I want to be able to use the tab key to go from one text input box to another. I want the Enter and or the Return key to cause the value I have input to be set and then I want the focus of the keyboard to be in the application window. Not the same [expletive deleted] text input box. I want the escape key to move the focus away from the text input box without the value being accepted. Reject the value, return to the previously set value and exit the text input box.

It is these little things that make me want to use some other software.

[Ideagonal]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:12 PM, Old Bruce said:

So annoying, so frustrating. The source of many mistakes.

I want to be able to use the tab key to go from one text input box to another. I want the Enter and or the Return key to cause the value I have input to be set and then I want the focus of the keyboard to be in the application window. Not the same [expletive deleted] text input box. I want the escape key to move the focus away from the text input box without the value being accepted. Reject the value, return to the previously set value and exit the text input box.

It is these little things that make me want to use some other software.

Oh, so true. How many times I end with a 'v' or any other letter inside a text input value field, then is highlighted in red or green because is a non permitted value or is still focused. Each time it interrupts (very briefly) my work.

[Tom McGrath]

Transitioning from InDesign, I'm encountering significant challenges navigating the interface in Affinity Suite. Specifically, I'm struggling to locate the 'replace font' feature while attempting to swap fonts from a Word file. This process feels like a constant cycle of searching and frustration. Despite having invested in the complete Affinity Suite, I believe I'll stick to my familiar tools. Moving from Quark to InDesign was notably smoother in comparison.

[MikeTO]

4 minutes ago, Tom McGrath said:

Transitioning from InDesign, I'm encountering significant challenges navigating the interface in Affinity Suite. Specifically, I'm struggling to locate the 'replace font' feature while attempting to swap fonts from a Word file. This process feels like a constant cycle of searching and frustration. Despite having invested in the complete Affinity Suite, I believe I'll stick to my familiar tools. Moving from Quark to InDesign was notably smoother in comparison.

Hi Tom, Affinity doesn't have a "replace font" feature when importing text from Microsoft Word which is why you've struggled to find it. After importing the text you'd either have to edit the text styles or use Find and Replace to change the fonts one by one.

I recommend you give it a bit more time. I've been using publishing apps since long before Quark and InDesign and every program has its own quirks. It took me a couple of days to feel at home in Publisher but that's normal when switching apps.

You might want to check out the free manual for Publisher that I've shared in this forum - the link is in my signature. It includes some tips in the sidebars for those transitioning from InDesign.

Good luck.

[Tom McGrath]

Thanks so much Mike....very much appreciated. 

Best

Tom