Open PDF in Photo reports missing fonts; not so in PS

[VectorCat]

Affinity Photo will open PDFs, but often will throw errors about "missing fonts," whereas Photoshop will simply correctly open the PDF - fonts and all.

Is this something which could be fixed in Affinity Photo?

[Old Bruce]

3 minutes ago, VectorCat said:

Affinity Photo will open PDFs, but often will throw errors about "missing fonts," whereas Photoshop will simply correctly open the PDF - fonts and all.

Do you have a Font Manager installed? It could be that it is automatically turning on fonts for PhotoShop but not doing that for Affinity Photo. Another possibility is that PhotoShop is silently substituting a font and not warning you about it.

[kenmcd]

24 minutes ago, VectorCat said:

Affinity Photo will open PDFs, but often will throw errors about "missing fonts," whereas Photoshop will simply correctly open the PDF - fonts and all.

Could you share the PDF which demonstrates this issue?

It would be helpful to see what and how the fonts are embedded. 

Note: sometimes when PS opens a PDF it simply displays the glyphs - not editable text.

[VectorCat]

I am sorry but I can not; proprietary information. I can tell you that the font it claimed was missing is loaded on my system: Open Sans. I use it all the time for this client's work.

Were it not for the sensitive nature of this client's information, I'd happily share it with you.

[Old Bruce]

6 minutes ago, VectorCat said:

I can tell you that the font it claimed was missing is loaded on my system: Open Sans. I use it all the time for this client's work.

Is it the exact same Open Sans on the machine that made the PDF and your machine with Affinity Photo and Adobe PhotoShop?

And again, do you have a font manager running? 

[VectorCat]

Yes, it is the exact same Open Sans on the machine that made the PDF and on my machine with Affinity Photo and Adobe Photoshop.

I am using Font Book to manage fonts; Open Sans is listed by Font Book as being loaded / active on my Mac.

Thank you!

[Old Bruce]

My best guess is that the original machine making the PDF has a second version of Open Sans installed and was used inadvertently.

For what it is worth, never have I had a problem with using Font Book on my Mac(s) exclusively for a couple of decades.

[R C-R]

3 hours ago, VectorCat said:

I am sorry but I can not; proprietary information. I can tell you that the font it claimed was missing is loaded on my system: Open Sans.

Originally you said "missing fonts" (plural). Is it possible that the missing font message always refers to just one Open Sans typeface, or might it be different ones at different times and/or with different PDF's?

[kenmcd]

3 hours ago, VectorCat said:

I can tell you that the font it claimed was missing is loaded on my system: Open Sans. I use it all the time for this client's work.

What I am trying to see is how the font was embedded to see if we can determine the issue is caused by how it was embedded, or APhoto is missing the boat.

What application was used to create the PDF?
Some apps do not embed the font names in the best way.
And this makes it harder for other apps to match the fonts.

Some Adopy apps include hidden additional info into the PDF which helps them read the file properly when re-opened/imported into Adopy apps. With the PDF we can see if this hidden info is present. Cannot read it, but we can see that it is there.

Can you please post a screenshot of the embedded font list from your PDF reader?
That way we can at least see how the font names were embedded.

Note: there are some updated versions of Open Sans around which do not work properly on Windows (the name fields are bad), but should be OK on Mac. The original version and the version on Google Fonts are both OK.

[walt.farrell]

3 hours ago, VectorCat said:

Yes, it is the exact same Open Sans on the machine that made the PDF and on my machine with Affinity Photo and Adobe Photoshop.

If you can't share the PDF, it would at least help to see a screenshot of the message about the missing fonts. 

If you also own Publisher it would help to see what the Font Manager there says about that PDF. 

[VectorCat]

Thank you all for the help. I can deal with the questions several have asked after I get home. Hopefully, they’ll help in this analysis. 
 

cheers!

[VectorCat]

Here is a screenshot of the missing fonts warning I get opening that pdf in photo.

*I can use the tool to instruct photo to use Open Sans Bold as the "substitute" font, since I have the Open Sans family on my Mac. When I do that, there is no difference between what Affinity displays and the PDF itself, shown in a Preview.

[VectorCat]

Here is what Publisher Font Manager shows regarding the same PDF

[walt.farrell]

10 hours ago, VectorCat said:

Here is a screenshot of the missing fonts warning I get opening that pdf in photo.

Thanks. That explains the problem, I believe.

Note that the line shows the font name as "Open Sans,Bold". I believe that should be "Open Sans Bold", with a space not a comma. I think that indicates that the font that was used on the system that created the PDF has a "broken" font on it, with inconsistent or incorrect names specified internally in the font file.

(Someone who knows more about this than I will be along with more information, probably.)

[Pšenda]

17 hours ago, VectorCat said:

Were it not for the sensitive nature of this client's information, I'd happily share it with you.

Is it a problem to create a specific PDF with one word that is not sensitive for the client, but will cause the error?

[VectorCat]

So…here’s the part that gets me..I’ve been under the impression that PDF - portable document format - meant that the end user need have only a PDF reader in order to open, view and enjoy all of the wonders of the original document PDF’d.

Including fonts…that adobe had invented some technology that contained all the metrics of the fonts used in the document so that the PDF + Reader could properly draw them on the screen without the end user having the fonts used in the document’s creation on their device.

This seems not the case. So, PDF…portable, with conditions?

Edited December 24, 2021 by VectorCat

[walt.farrell]

19 minutes ago, VectorCat said:

So…here’s the part that gets me..I’ve been under the impression that PDF - portable document format - meant that the end user need have only a PDF reader in order to open, view and enjoy all of the wonders of the original document PDF’d.

Including fonts…that adobe had invented some technology that contained all the metrics of the fonts used in the document so that the PDF + Reader could properly draw them on the screen without the end user having the fonts used in the document’s creation on their device.

This seems not the case. So, PDF…portable, with conditions?

If you want to View the PDF, then you can use a PDF viewer or you can Place it into an Affinity document, and use Passthrough mode.

If you Open it (which allows Editing in Affinity applications) then (in Affinity applications) you must have the same fonts installed, because the Affinity applications do not use the embedded fonts when editing.

It appears to me that the computer on which the PDF was created has a font named Open Sans Bold, and you have one named Open Sans Bold, but they are not the same Open Sans Bold. If you were to install the same font files, I don't think you'd have that problem.

[VectorCat]

Ahh…that’s clear enough, yes. Thank you, Walt.

My workflow in this case is this: I open PDFs often, not to edit them, but to create PNG from them for purposes of placing them in newsletters or other types of documents - which are then PDFd for distribution. If I want to edit PDFs, I have Acrobat Pro or whatever it’s called - I haven’t used Publisher for that purpose because client is Adobe-based (yeah..I know..) and I don’t want to have any manner of hitches or 3-eyed lizard babies. I bring Affinity tools into the mix because I greatly prefer them over their adobe counterparts, and if the end goal is raster, it seems harmless enough.

Will have to re-visit on the Mac, but I’m pretty sure I’ve checked the option, words to the effect: favor fidelity over editability - consistent with the above-described use case.

Thank you greatly for all of this..good learning experience.

[walt.farrell]

1 hour ago, VectorCat said:

Will have to re-visit on the Mac, but I’m pretty sure I’ve checked the option, words to the effect: favor fidelity over editability - consistent with the above-described use case.

You cannot Open a PDF for your purpose. Doing that requires you to have the fonts available.

You must Place it into a document, and use Passthrough mode. 

[kenmcd]

12 hours ago, walt.farrell said:

Note that the line shows the font name as "Open Sans,Bold". I believe that should be "Open Sans Bold", with a space not a comma. I think that indicates that the font that was used on the system that created the PDF has a "broken" font on it, with inconsistent or incorrect names specified internally in the font file.

Ah, no.

It probably means the library writing the PDF was stupidly not using the PostScript Name in the font, but instead used the family name (with the spaces) and then added the style with a comma. The PDF specs have a recommended/required format for the PostScript Name (no spaces with the dash), and that it should be used when embedding fonts.

If the app had done it right it would have been embedded as -  OpenSans-Bold - which is the recommended format, and what is actually in the fonts. Then when the PDF is imported the embedded font names match the PostScript Name in the user's installed fonts.

BUT, for the fifth time now Affinity, the apps should know that 

Open Sans, Bold = OpenSans-Bold

when matching fonts. The Adopy apps know this and match the fonts properly.