Line down the middle of facing pages

[RobinMcL]

Hello,

I am using facing pages in a small book and have the following problem.

There is a blackline down the middle, between the two facing pages. In initially, I thought this was only a guide to let me see where the boundary between the pages is, but I see this even in Preview mode. The problem is that this line is, actually, a gap between the pages and is very serious for the following reason.

I print and bind the books myself and often have a full-spread image on the sheet of paper that will be the center sheet of a signature. When I print this sheet my carefully prepared image (in Photo) has a white line right down the center. That is, there is no ink there and that's why I think that there is a gap (perhaps only a pixel or two) between the facing pages. What is even more weird is the fact that, on print preview, I do not see the white line (perhaps just a resolution issues since the dpi on the image is greater than the dpi of my screen).

This is the second book I have done this way and I had no such problems with the first book which, of course, was using an earlier version of Publisher. I use N-up when printing, with N = 2. I have no gaps between the pages. (I tried to fix the problem by trying to enter a negative gap but the software would not allow this.)

I am using version 1.10.4.1198 and Windows 10.

This line between the facing pages appears on creation, before I have put in any text or images.

The only workaround I can think of, and it would be a pain, is to create a second file, of non-facing pages, for each such case. This would be an astronomical pain because I would then have a nightmare in getting the correct pages printed on the other side of the paper!

Is this a bug or have I done something wrong? In other words, how can a use facing pages without getting this line. (On pages where I have an inner margin, there is no problem - since there is no ink there anyway.)

Suggestions please. 

Robin

[R C-R]

51 minutes ago, RobinMcL said:

This line between the facing pages appears on creation, before I have put in any text or images.

Are you sure this is a real line & not just the guide showing the boundary bewteen facing pages? That guide shows even in Preview Mode.

If it is a real line, you should be able to select it with the Move Tool; it should appear as a layer in the Layers panel; & its width should not change even at very high document zoom levels.

It might help if you create a new APub document, place nothing in it, & post that here.

[RobinMcL]

Thanks for considering this. You are correct about the "line" and I was sloppy in my use of the word. I can't select it but the issue is that, when I print out a spread which has a single image that crosses the median line between the left hand and right hand pages, there is a while "line" down the middle of my image. It looks like a line simply because there is no ink there. That's why I also used the word "gap". It looks like Publisher has taken the left hand page and right hand p[age and stuck a thin "gap" between them. This gap has nothing in it and this is why it is not printed which them makes it look like there is a white line down my image.

An earlier user (a couple of years ago) mentioned the line. Yes, it does show that boundary. No problem there. 

Thanks,

Robin

[Callum]

On 12/5/2021 at 9:23 PM, RobinMcL said:

Thanks for considering this. You are correct about the "line" and I was sloppy in my use of the word. I can't select it but the issue is that, when I print out a spread which has a single image that crosses the median line between the left hand and right hand pages, there is a while "line" down the middle of my image. It looks like a line simply because there is no ink there. That's why I also used the word "gap". It looks like Publisher has taken the left hand page and right hand p[age and stuck a thin "gap" between them. This gap has nothing in it and this is why it is not printed which them makes it look like there is a white line down my image.

An earlier user (a couple of years ago) mentioned the line. Yes, it does show that boundary. No problem there. 

Thanks,

Robin

Has this issue now been solved? if it hasn't please could you post a screenshot that demonstrates the line in question?

Thanks
C

[RobinMcL]

Once more, thanks. I have so much to learn and am very thankful for all the help I get through the Forum

The issue has not been solved. See the attached file. I put two images in the one file. The images are screen shots taken with Snip & Sketch. The image on the left shows a part of my whole image that straddles the spine. Notice the blue lines and the white line down the middle. The blue lines are showing the margins. The white line is exactly between the facing pages. So then I simply used Preview mode. As expected, the blue lines went away. See the right image. But the white line did not. While I could live with this on the monitor, I can't tolerate it if it actually prints out this white line. The tragedy is, that it does.

In my current specific case, some of my full spread images will not have anything printed on the other side. In these cases, I could create another file, not using facing pages but simply having one page twice as wide. In other cases, I have pages of the book printed on the other side. I can see a way to getting this done but it would be a great pain. The real solution is not to have this white line in the first place. I did a book (with the same size of facing pages and images that crossed the spine) a few years ago and did NOT have this problem. Of course that was with a much earlier version of the product.

Thanks,

Robin

White line.tiff

[Old Bruce]

I am unclear on whether that red and yellow image on the Facing pages Spread is one file covering the two pages or two images butted together at the gutter?

Are you using a picture frame (or two picture frames)? Is it on a master page or is it on the actual pages.

[RobinMcL]

The image is a single file (tiff file). It is in a frame and it covers the entire spread. It is not two images butted together.. I am using a single picture frame. It is on the actual pages, not in a master page. (I also use this only for a sheet that is in the center of a signature and hence the image is also printed as a single image. Being in the center of a signature, the white line is clearly visible in the final book. Had it not been in the center of a signature, the white line would have been hidden in the crease between different pages.)

Thanks for looking at this.

Robin

[Old Bruce]

Do you have anything like a text frame or a rectangle that is on one or both pages going onto the gutter? A curve? Anything?

While working on that page take a look at the Layers panel and turn turn things off and on to see if there is something that makes that line go away. I have been (and will be) caught out by having something left over from the early part of the design work still present.

[RobinMcL]

The layers panel is pretty simple, having only two entries. The top one is the Picture Frame with its tiff file. The bottom one is a Master page but the white line is there even with the Master page turned off. Even with the Master page on, this page has a text frame (for a page number only) that does NOT straddle the gutter. This Master page also has a background jpg image but, as I said, the white line shows even with the Master page turned off. Now, just to make sure, I have just deleted the Master Page and so the layers panel now shows ONLY the Picture Frame with its tiff image. (To do another check (because I am so utterly confused and have struggled with this for ages) I opened the tiff file in Photo just to make sure that the white line was NOT in the tiff image. It is not.)

I still feel that the most likely thing is that I have done something silly.

I also tried the following: File New, Facing Pages, start on left, 2 pages Create. Go into Photo from Publisher, create a black square on left page, Copy, Paste, Move one square over the gutter. White line appears. The layers Panel shows only two rectangles.

Mystery.

Robin

[Old Bruce]

What this sounds like is the line that delineates the left and right paper edges, except that instead of black it is white and permanent. A non-trivial matter.

[RobinMcL]

Of course, I'm caught in the middle here. For the better of the entire community, it would be best that I have done something silly and there is no bug in the software. But then I look like a total idiot. I have tried to be careful.

As to the line being white OR black, it is the "opposite" of the background color. That is, if on creation I have a white background, and create a black square of, say, half the height of the page, and place it over the gutter, then the center line (the one I don't like) starts from the top of the page as black but changes to white as it crosses the black square, then back to black at the bottom of the page. So it is not a normal line with some color.

One wild guess I have had is that, when sticking the left hand page next to the right hand page the counting got off (perhaps due to arithmetic rounding) by one pixel. Say each side is 100 pixels wide. Now I start to compose the image to be printed. I start counting from 0 (zero) as many computer scientists do. So I count of the 100 lines as 0,1,2, ..., 99. Then I go and get the right hand image. Where do I place it? This is where I make a mistake. I argue that the left hand image was 100 lines so now I must start the right hand one at 101! Makes sense? Oops! I have just skipped over line 100! So this "line" is NOT actually a line. It is a GAP. This is why it changes from black to white.

Another interesting thing is that while this line appears on the monitor, it does NOT appear if one exports the spread but DOES appear if you print. So it seems (to me at least) that there are two issues. The first is that the line should not be there in the first place. If one DOES want a guide to show the center of the spread, then it should be blue like the margin lines and vanish in Preview mode. The second problem appears to be related only to printing. This is where the 2-up and the compositing of the left hand image and right hand image comes into play. It is here that the "gap" appears.

I appreciate all your efforts here.

Robin

[R C-R]

It might be easy to see what's going on if you can attach a 'bare bones' version of your book to a reply -- just the spread(?) with the line or gap, the 2 images, & any master pages it uses.

7 minutes ago, RobinMcL said:

If one DOES want a guide to show the center of the spread, then it should be blue like the margin lines and vanish in Preview mode.

As mentioned earlier, the page boundary guide in a spread is not hidden, whether or not Preview mode is enabled. It also is not blue.

[RobinMcL]

The attached file shows the spread that is not printing out the way I would like. Actually, I'd prefer not to see the white line in Preview mode either but it is on the print that is the real problem.

Thanks,

Robin

For Forum.afpub

[Old Bruce]

55 minutes ago, RobinMcL said:

The second problem appears to be related only to printing. This is where the 2-up and the compositing of the left hand image and right hand image comes into play. It is here that the "gap" appears.

Sorry I can offer no solution to this very real and unwanted problem.

Have you tried exporting to PDF and printing from that? I do believe that there are some serious problems with printing from Publisher (or Photo or Designer) with some printers and their drivers. This would appear to be one of them.

Me myself, I like the delineation of pages with a line. I have to say that the ability to turn it off when in preview mode would be a great option to have in the preferences even if I would never use it.

[R C-R]

4 minutes ago, RobinMcL said:

The attached file shows the spread that is not printing out the way I would like.

The vertical line down the center is just the page boundary guide. For me, it shows as a light grey color, neither black nor white, & it does not change width when I zoom in or out, so I am reasonably confident that is all it is -- the non-printing page boundary guide.

You did not include the linked DENS 1_3 test.tiff with the document so it does not show as a high resolution version for me, but I doubt that is relevant.

Is it possible that your printer settings are not allowing printing to page edges or something like that?

[Old Bruce]

6 minutes ago, R C-R said:

The vertical line down the center is just the page boundary guide. For me, it shows as a light grey color, neither black nor white, & it does not change width when I zoom in or out, so I am reasonably confident that is all it is -- the non-printing page boundary guide.

For me it does change if there is Black and White straddling the gutter. Still shades of grey but light on dark and dark on light.

[R C-R]

13 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

For me it does change if there is Black and White straddling the gutter. Still shades of grey but light on dark and dark on light.

I see that too, but it is still a grey shade.

FWIW, I tried the Mac Print > Save to PDF option for the supplied file & if I set scaling to 'fit to page' before doing that, the PDF shows no gap. Otherwise, it shows gaps around both sides of both pages.

[RobinMcL]

Thank you all for your efforts on my behalf.

Exporting works fine so it seems that the problem arises only when I print. I, too have been wondering if there is some conflict between the Publisher printing setup and my printer. I think I should spend tomorrow on that issue and then report my findings.

I use a Canon Pro-100. I think I have the latest drivers. I used 11 x 17 inch matte paper and the full spread was 16.2 x 9.7 inches. I also centered the image (very accurately).

 But I also have an Epson XP-960. I have not been using that as it is in a different location etc., etc. However, I think the problem warrants me taking the time to try to print on that printer. It would be very interesting, and informative, if the same file printed fine on my Epson but had the line down the middle in the Canon.

Sorry about not including the tiff. I should have embedded it.

I'll do a little more homework and report tomorrow.

With thanks,

Robin

[Old Bruce]

For myself, I don't print from the Affinity applications, I will export (TIFF for photos and PDF for other things) and then print from Preview on the Mac. There just seem to be too many problems with printer drivers and OSes and Affinity, it is not worth my time to troubleshoot something that is fundamentally flawed.

[RobinMcL]

Thanks again for the comments. Actually, years ago, I did export as a PDF but went back to trying to use Affinity. Here's a little more background and I apologize if I bore you.

I write short stories just as a hobby (Word documents). It was after the birth of our first grandchild and I had written a story for him that my wife suggested I turn it into a "real" book. This is what set me off getting the Affinity products, a decent monitor, printer, calibration stuff - and trying to learn how to use it all. Phew! I then do my own binding in sewn signatures.  I had terrible problems trying to print in signatures from Publisher, and still do. Bleed is also an issue because, even if I DON'T have bleed in the gutter, Publisher adds it for me. So I can't use bleed. (I adjust by making my pages a bit bigger and then trimming.) So then I tried exporting as a PDF. Now my message here is that I am a rank beginner just trying to get a silly little book made for my grandson. So which of the 9 PDF formats should I use? I was bewildered.

There was, however, one huge advantage to doing it this way - I could easily print my signatures. (pages 1-16 as booklet, 17-32 as booklet etc.) This was something I couldn't do in Publisher. But there was a huge downside. I found that I could not control colour. But things may have changed and I thank you for the suggestion. It took me three years to get that first book out by which time our son and daughter-in-law were bringing our next grandchild into the world. So I can't do a book for one and not the other. It's this second book that I am struggling with now. I've been working on these issues for five years and, while I am still useless, I'm not quite as useless as I was in the beginning.

So, thanks to you, today, as I investigate the printing directly from Publisher but on a different printer, I will also have another crack at exporting to PDF and then printing from my PDF app (PDF SAM).

I notice that Publisher has a print option called "Book" but I can't find any information about it. What I had always hoped for was the ability to say something like, "Book; 1-16, 17-32,33-52" and have it print three signatures, properly imposed. I can achieve that from my PDF app but not with Publisher. 

Thanks,

Robin

[RobinMcL]

Okay, I printed on my Epson printer and did not get the line down the middle. So I think that the problem was specific to the Canon PRO-100 printer. (I checked on the latest printer drivers and they have this problem.) Using my Epson printer is not the best option since, with 11" x 17" paper, I have to feed it one sheet at a time.

I also did an export as pdf and print from my pdf app (PDF SAM). This was okay as far as not showing the spurious line. However, I have never mastered colour management when using pdfs. I do my own ICC profiles and so, when printing directly from Publisher, I switch off colour management in the printer and let Publisher do it. I specify which ICC profile and rendering intent. I see that I can select an ICC Profile on Export but I don't see how to select a rendering intent.

I have now come around to the opinion, expressed by Old Bruce, that I should export to pdf and print from there. That would be great if I can sort out the colour management problems I have had. I would welcome any suggestions in this regard. At the point when I want a hard copy, I know which ICC Profile and which Rendering Intent I would use, were I to print directly from Publisher. Which pdf format should I use and how should I mage colour so as to achieve the same results via exporting to pdf and printing from PDF SAM?

Thanks to you all, at least I now feel sure that the problem I was having was an Affinity/Canon driver problem and (probably) not something silly I had done.

Robin

[R C-R]

33 minutes ago, RobinMcL said:

So I think that the problem was specific to the Canon PRO-100 printer.

I am a Mac user & don't have a suitable Canon printer to test with, but from what I have read elsewhere on the forum, certain printers cannot print all the way to the edges (IOW, borderless) except for certain built-in preset page sizes -- if you use any other sizes, custom or built-in, borderless printing does not work.

So just as a test, you might try printing to some standard page size (other than 11" by 17") to see if that works, or dig through the Canon printer manual to see if it says anything about that.

39 minutes ago, RobinMcL said:

However, I have never mastered colour management when using pdfs.

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

[Old Bruce]

17 hours ago, R C-R said:

I have never mastered color management, period, so I cannot help with that.

I am going to have to add this to my signature. Is that okay?

[R C-R]

26 minutes ago, Old Bruce said:

I am going to have to add this to my signature. Is that okay?

OK with me.

[Old Bruce]

2 minutes ago, R C-R said:

OK with me.

Thanks.