mco Posted November 18, 2021 Posted November 18, 2021 Hello, I need to export my afdesign file to a layered PDF (for a cutting machine ) I have tried all PDF export settings. And no layers shows in Acrobat reader ! I test all affinty app design, photo and publish all give the same result ! no layer... enseigne_decoupe_3D_125x38.afdesign Quote
walt.farrell Posted November 18, 2021 Posted November 18, 2021 Have you created any Layers in your Designer document? You would create them by Layer > New Layer or by using the Add Layer icon (document page with folded corner) at the bottom of the Layers panel. Quote -- Walt Designer, Photo, and Publisher V1 and V2 at latest retail and beta releases PC: Desktop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 64GB memory, AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12-Core @ 3.00 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Laptop: Windows 11 Pro 23H2, 32GB memory, Intel Core i7-10750H @ 2.60GHz, Intel UHD Graphics Comet Lake GT2 and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. Laptop 2: Windows 11 Pro 24H2, 16GB memory, Snapdragon(R) X Elite - X1E80100 - Qualcomm(R) Oryon(TM) 12 Core CPU 4.01 GHz, Qualcomm(R) Adreno(TM) X1-85 GPU iPad: iPad Pro M1, 12.9": iPadOS 18.3, Apple Pencil 2, Magic Keyboard Mac: 2023 M2 MacBook Air 15", 16GB memory, macOS Sequoia 15.0.1
Joachim_L Posted November 18, 2021 Posted November 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, mco said: And no layers shows in Acrobat reader ! This is confusing. There are layers and layers. If you want to export with layers add a layer from the Layers panel or from the menu and move the elements (this how I would call them) into those layers. After that export to PDF with a preset that include layers. See under the More button for this option. Attached a version with "layers". There is always someone being faster ... this time Walt. enseigne_decoupe_3D_125x38-with-layers.afdesign Quote ------ Windows 10 | i5-8500 CPU | Intel UHD 630 Graphics | 32 GB RAM | Latest Retail and Beta versions of complete Affinity range installed
thomaso Posted November 18, 2021 Posted November 18, 2021 On 11/18/2021 at 4:41 PM, mco said: I need to export my afdesign file to a layered PDF (for a cutting machine ) I have tried all PDF export settings. And no layers shows in Acrobat reader ! On 11/18/2021 at 4:48 PM, walt.farrell said: Have you created any Layers in your Designer document? That's indeed confusing in the export options since all items are on layers. It would be more clear if the dialog wouldn't say "Include layers" but rather make the capital L more obvious, e.g. "Include each Layer (Layer)" instead, or "Include all "(Layer)" layers". Old Bruce and Wosven 2 Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
mco Posted November 18, 2021 Author Posted November 18, 2021 I found the solution !😎 You have to convert Groups into a Layer ! To do so you have to select "the group" in the "Layer" list Then go to the "Layer" menu and select "Convert the group into a layer"" thomaso and walt.farrell 2 Quote
R C-R Posted November 18, 2021 Posted November 18, 2021 1 hour ago, mco said: Then go to the "Layer" menu and select "Convert the group into a layer"" In the Mac version of AD, in English this menu item is labeled "Promote Group to Layer," so it sort of gets the capital L "(Layer)" part right but since Group is capitalized as well, that is yet another place where users are likely to miss the importance of the capital L. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
thomaso Posted November 18, 2021 Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, R C-R said: In the Mac version of AD, in English this menu item is labeled "Promote Group to Layer," so it sort of gets the capital L "(Layer)" part right but since Group is capitalized as well, that is yet another place where users are likely to miss the importance of the capital L. It is a weird decision by Serif anyway to give identical names to objects with different properties and distinguish them only by the spelling of their first letter. Is it common in English to distinguish two objects only by their capital letter? – In the e.g. German version this remedy doesn't work because all nouns are capitalized, so there is no difference between "Ebene" and "Ebene" when writing about layers and Layers. It may seem clever, but isn't it also a bit kindergarden to talk about "layer" vs. "layer-layer" as a workaround, especially since a "Layer" appears to correspond to a group rather than a layer. Imagine if we called master pages "page-page" and master page layers on document pages "page-page-layer" accordingly, if they are arranged in layers even "page-Page-layer-Layer" … how about "main layer", "container layer" etc, just to not have to ask for a possible capitalization...? Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
R C-R Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, thomaso said: Is it common in English to distinguish two objects only by their capital letter? Only for proper nouns, while are capitalized vs common nouns, which are not. 32 minutes ago, thomaso said: It may seem clever, but isn't it also a bit kindergarden to talk about "layer" vs. "layer-layer" as a workaround, especially since a "Layer" appears to correspond to a group rather than a layer. They are both containers but a "(Group)" is not the same as a "(Layer)," so referring to the latter as a 'container layer' does little to end the confusion. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
R C-R Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hens said: Simply call a Layer a Container and a Group a Group would suffice. If we did that, how would we explain that a Group is also a type of container? Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
R C-R Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, Hens said: Semantics,wow,simply rename the Layer object to container in the help and in the program and leave the group object have the name group isn't that difficult. But "(Layer)" objects are not the only kind of container objects the Affinity apps support. So in the help, or in replies to users asking about the different kinds of container objects, how should that be done? Also consider that the help topics & layer labels must work for all supported languages, so I am not sure if other language versions of "container" would have the same meaning in all of them. Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
thomaso Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 2 hours ago, R C-R said: Only for proper nouns, while are capitalized vs common nouns, which are not. It seems that proper nouns are unique or individual, while common nouns can be less specific names for several of them? Wouldn't then both layer types be common nouns? They both can exist in nearly any quantity in each single Affinity document – different to an individual person, building, painting, design, etc. – whereas then their "Document" might appear to be more proper than common and could be written with capital D. Probably I am not able to understand the correct use and differentiation of proper vs common nouns, it may even appear as a matter of taste for native English speakers too. And maybe there is never a way to be consistent or fully logical in the Affinity UI, as e.g. with B and b in "Bleed" vs. "Include bleed". (document setup vs export dialog). But using 1 word for 2 different things simply causes confusion. 2 hours ago, R C-R said: They are both containers but a "(Group)" is not the same as a "(Layer)," so referring to the latter as a 'container layer' does little to end the confusion. The point is that many terms used in Affinity (and life) have more than 1 meaning – but layer & Layer are the same word for not the same things. Correct, also a "(Group)" is a container, as "Picture Frame", "Text Styles Panel", "Swatches Palette" or ".afpub", ".pdf" and ".eps" are containers, too. The word "container" came to my mind not because of being more precise than "layer", "Layer" or "Group" but because it seems to be not used yet within Affinity to name an item of the interface. Compare also the confusion between "style" and "Style" in Affinity which might mean a specifically formatted design (as visual look) AND / OR a saved item of that design (as numerical definition) (e.g. text style vs. Text Style). The problem with layer & Layer becomes more complex by referring to items outside of Affinity, as it does with the layers mentioned in the export dialog, referring to the layer especially in a PDF. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
thomaso Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 4 hours ago, R C-R said: So in the help, or in replies to users asking about the different kinds of container objects, how should that be done? Does the help mention / differentiate containers at all? Ironically the German APub Help Search finds 1 container only. It is used for text frames created with the Frame Text Tool – whereas the Art Text help text doesn't mention "container". – Nevertheless, no one would think Art Text is not a container for text as well, – right? It does not make sense to argue with ambiguity of "container", different containers contain different things and make it clear what container means in various situations. If you ask people "What is a container for text?" they hardly would answer "A frame." – but this doesn't cause confusion. But layer & Layer are closer together (we can't even say they have different spelling), while the Layer is also a group – although both layer & Layer have fundamentally differences. As we see in this topic about layers in PDF. – Does the Affinity Help explain this difference? To me it seems not even to be aware of it: Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
lacerto Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 Obsolete. Wosven, v_kyr and thomaso 3 Quote
thomaso Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 16 hours ago, mco said: Then go to the "Layer" menu and select "Convert the group into a layer"" A nice shortcut! I wonder why this option is not available in APub? (respectively requires in APub a switch to the Designer Persona) 15 hours ago, R C-R said: In the Mac version of AD, in English this menu item is labeled "Promote Group to Layer," so it sort of gets the capital L "(Layer)" part right but since Group is capitalized as well, that is yet another place where users are likely to miss the importance of the capital L. Here the French interface obviously uses both notations, "layer" and "Layer", and also the English version can not provide a reliable capitalization to clearly identify the used meaning of layer / Layer, e.g. according to our habit of Affinity layer notation a pixel layer would never be a Layer, - right? This illustrates that the user interface conflicts with its different notation/capitalization approaches, both within and between languages. It doesn't really hurt with prepositions (to / To) but it does since "layer" and "Layer" have different meanings. (A general disput outside of Affinity about capitalisation in American vs. British English may increase the confusion but is not the culprit here.) • . 5 hours ago, Lagarto said: So in that sense child-talk is useful, and "layer-layer" does make sense. Any distinct name would, e.g. calling them "Super Layers", "ALayers", etc. Yes, layer-layer is a clever workaround (contributed by users?) but it doesn't work for all use cases (e.g. in menus with their different capitalisation approach, same for the help). If a new term will become used by Serif to avoid the capitalisation conflict then it could also avoid a notation conflict occurring with sans serif fonts for AI vs AL, maybe "A-layer" … or an artificial word, while avoiding conflicts with existing layer specialities Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
thomaso Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, Lagarto said: so basically the capital letter alone does not name it but rather the prefix "layer" Note, users may rename the prefix but not the suffix "(Layer)". However, layer-Layer, pre- or suffix-layer or LayLadyLay, no expression solves the conflict as long it isn't an officially term by Serif in the UI and Help. Some users are familiar to interpret "layer layer" not as an error whereas others need the additional hint about the capital L, with or without additional (brackets) and "quotation" "(marks)", as the only clear difference between the two terms. Back to this thread: since the export dialog not only doesn't care about this difference – even with capital L it wouldn't be unambiguous. At least at this UI location "layer" and "Layer" are both misleading without an additional clarification. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
v_kyr Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 Hmm, yes sometimes it's difficult to find the right name wordings, or short name abbreviations, for certain functionalities in UI programs & applications. So to say, which one is unambiguously and which one would probably confuse people more than being obvious helpfull at all for a common understanding here. Add to that then also possible problems with certain language localizations, that some choosen naming will not be unambiguously then there etc. Like, do we name that button on a panel/dialog now "Abort", "Cancel" or "Dismiss", which one would make more sense to the end user in a specific application state and context here and would that ideally then also be valid for whatever language is choosen by end users then? Quote ☛ Affinity Designer 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Photo 1.10.8 ◆ Affinity Publisher 1.10.8 ◆ OSX El Capitan ☛ Affinity V2.3 apps ◆ MacOS Sonoma 14.2 ◆ iPad OS 17.2
thomaso Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Hens said: the concept of something being a layer is a stupid one in the first place. Object is more appropriate imo Saying "layer" instead of "object" doesn't help to differentiate layer from Layer – but it has the advantage to focus on an object in particular in the layers panel. "Layer" refers to the hierarchical attitude of an "object". So saying "Select the image object" may mean in the layout OR the panel, while "Select the image layer" indicates layer directly, in particular useful if it is about the hierarchical features available via the layers panel only. (Well, one alternatively could say "Select the image in the layers panel".) To me "object" may be appropriate in many cases but in others "layer" is more helpful. Quote macOS 10.14.6 | MacBookPro Retina 15" | Eizo 27" | Affinity V1
R C-R Posted November 19, 2021 Posted November 19, 2021 13 hours ago, thomaso said: Probably I am not able to understand the correct use and differentiation of proper vs common nouns, it may even appear as a matter of taste for native English speakers too. At least here in the USA, it is not a matter of taste but of using the correct form. A proper noun refers to a specific instance of a thing; a common noun to a general category of things. However, since common nouns are frequently used as labels, & there is (at least to my knowledge) no standard that says if labels should be capitalized or not, that can create (in English) ambiguities like in the capital P in the "(Pixel)" label & the capital L in the "(Layer)" label. Both labels are common nouns -- like all the other parenthetical suffixes shown in the Layers panel, they do not refer to any specific layer instance, just to one of a number of general kinds of layers. The only way I can think of to reduce (but certainly not end) the confusion about layers vs. "(Layers)" is just as I have done here -- always use the quotes & parentheses when referring to the latter. Also, as for using "object" instead of "layer" as a generic reference to any kind of layer, I don't think that would help much because "object" can also refer to individual items in a layer, for example to any curve in a merged "(Curves)" layer or a "(Compound)" layer, or to any object in an "(Artboard)" layer. Basically, in one context or another everything in the document could be considered to be an object; even nodes, bounding box handles, or guides. The short version: every layer type in any Affinity document has its own unique parenthetical suffix, usually visible in the Layers panel. Therefore, the help, tooltips, & so on should always use that suffix when referring to that type of object. thomaso and Old Bruce 2 Quote All 3 1.10.8, & all 3 V2.5.7 Mac apps; 2020 iMac 27"; 3.8GHz i7, Radeon Pro 5700, 32GB RAM; macOS 10.15.7 All 3 V2 apps for iPad; 6th Generation iPad 32 GB; Apple Pencil; iPadOS 15.7
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